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ORIGINAL: Staleek
Religious texts are allegorical to almost all religious adherents. Literalism is a rarity and is actually quite a modern phenomena.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?

No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it.

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What I am saying is it appears to be much more frequent among the Muslims than those who are not Muslims.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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What I am saying is it appears to be much more frequent among the Muslims than those who are not Muslims.

But you've already said that it doesn't appear to be more frequent. Do you have any stats on the situation of UK Muslims, for instance, to back up your anecdotal evidence?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?

No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it.

The results would be seen at hospitals, though. Medics have learned to recognise the signs of "accidents" being something else.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?

No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it.

The results would be seen at hospitals, though. Medics have learned to recognise the signs of "accidents" being something else.

And unless it is much different than here it still doesn't show up as domestic abuse without someone witnessing it and testifing, so if the wife won't press charges it still doesn't show up. A common occurance in domestic violence in all cultures.

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Where did I say that Peon??
And as I said, a lot of Muslim women are indoctrinated that it is the way of Islam and they must obey their husband and his wishes.

Did you actually look at the links I gave??
Even Wiki is saying that "Afghanistan has one of the highest incidence rates of domestic violence in the world. Domestic violence is so common that 85 per cent of women admit to experiencing it". ... [etc]

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

There's the major difference between the two approaches.

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?

No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it.

The results would be seen at hospitals, though. Medics have learned to recognise the signs of "accidents" being something else.

And unless it is much different than here it still doesn't show up as domestic abuse without someone witnessing it and testifing, so if the wife won't press charges it still doesn't show up. A common occurance in domestic violence in all cultures.

Not here, trust me, I was knocked out by our huge male Dobie who sadly passed away 2 weeks ago, completely my own fault as I whispered "walkies" into his ear, Alfie jumped up and I was out cold as his hard head hit my chin, hubby brought me to the ER and I was grilled regarding domestic violence, they even got a social worker in, especially when somebody noticed I was bruised and scratched (cat needing meds and kickboxing), I told them cat claws as he doesn't like to take his meds and asked them to ring up the dojo and the vet. They wanted to call the police in, hubby had to answer all sorts of nasty questions, I finally pulled out my iPhone and showed them a picture of Alfie next to me and a picture we took when I had to give the cat meds and he was all claws. Legally they do have to report any injury that just doesn't add up completely or arouses the slightest suspicion, they even went through my files and brought up every fracture from the past few years.

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Look at the UK 30-40 years ago... Domestic violence was virtually unheard of until women plucked up the courage to speak out about it.
Until 1991, British women couldn't be raped by their husbands - that has now changed and further enhanced in 2003.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

There's the major difference between the two approaches.

You know this? Have you lived there amongst these people? did you go to school there?

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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Look at the UK 30-40 years ago... Domestic violence was virtually unheard of until women plucked up the courage to speak out about it.
Until 1991, British women couldn't be raped by their husbands - that has now changed and further enhanced in 2003.

So we really aren't THAT far ahead of Muslim countries, are we?

But please do get involved with charities dealing with domestic violence, it's an eye opener, there is no denying that there is a certain percentage of Muslims, but you have to take into account that those are recent people, 2nd and 3rd generation tend to be completely different, I'm not saying it's OK but it is more understandable, they come to the country without an idea, often not speaking the language, instead of being integrated they are shunned and treated like dirt, duh, why don't they integrate under those circumstances? Don't you think it's far more shocking that a lot of domestic violence in Britain is still happening with your average British family where she can't afford to leave him, so in a lot of cases she won't report it as she has nowhere to go? Because even if she leaves him, she is often told that she shouldn't have moved out and there is no space available for her and the kids... So she is stuck in the environment, she can force him to move out, try and live of a very meager support system and be surrounded by his friends and family, life is so pleasant, you still believe British women report domestic violence? Really?

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Peon, my post#47 was mainly UK. Or did you not read it properly??

The point I am making is that in Islamic countries, violence against women is rife.
In Sweden, where there weren't any Muslims until 40 years ago, the rise in violence against women has rocketed and mainly by Muslim men.
In the UK, we are discovering more and more violence against Muslim women as they are slowly getting a voice.

Violence against women is prevalent within Islam because it's sanctioned by the Qur'an, the book by which most of them live by.
The fact that the Telegraph reported that cultural and religious issues were perpetuating the abuse and preventing victims from accessing help is something we are slowly uncovering in the UK.
Just because we aren't seeing it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
It is a well-hidden scourge among the Muslims and until very recently the police have dodged the issue completely for fear of racist reprisals. The scandal of the Staffordshire police for this lack of investigating is just one of several cases that came to light recently.

To deny it because you don't see it is being an ostrich.
Look at the UK 30-40 years ago... Domestic violence was virtually unheard of until women plucked up the courage to speak out about it.
Until 1991, British women couldn't be raped by their husbands - that has now changed and further enhanced in 2003.
Muslim women here are basically in the same position. Shabana's story is one of many.
These women need a voice and help to bring it out into the open for others to see it for what it is, not be denied by non-believers because they want to be PC and believe it isn't happening right under their noses in our wonderful 'multicultural Britain' where everything is all nice and rosy.
The problem won't go away if we ignore it and continue to deny its existence.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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Look at the UK 30-40 years ago... Domestic violence was virtually unheard of until women plucked up the courage to speak out about it.
Until 1991, British women couldn't be raped by their husbands - that has now changed and further enhanced in 2003.

So we really aren't THAT far ahead of Muslim countries, are we?

But please do get involved with charities dealing with domestic violence, it's an eye opener, there is no denying that there is a certain percentage of Muslims, but you have to take into account that those are recent people, 2nd and 3rd generation tend to be completely different, I'm not saying it's OK but it is more understandable, they come to the country without an idea, often not speaking the language, instead of being integrated they are shunned and treated like dirt, duh, why don't they integrate under those circumstances? Don't you think it's far more shocking that a lot of domestic violence in Britain is still happening with your average British family where she can't afford to leave him, so in a lot of cases she won't report it as she has nowhere to go? Because even if she leaves him, she is often told that she shouldn't have moved out and there is no space available for her and the kids... So she is stuck in the environment, she can force him to move out, try and live of a very meager support system and be surrounded by his friends and family, life is so pleasant, you still believe British women report domestic violence? Really?

British non-Muslim women do report a lot more violence that they used to a few decades ago.
And my local Women's shelter where my step-daughter has a friend seems to have doubled in size in just the last year alone and pretty much most of the new ladies are Muslims fleeing an abusive husband and fear an honour killing is imminent.
Personally, I don't think we are that far removed from Islamic countries when it comes to our close-knit Muslim communities.

I agree, many women get stuck because of a lack of support.
But many Muslim women are stuck for additional reasons of religious dogma and prejudice.
If my local Women's shelter is anything to go by, the Muslim women found they had death threats from their husband if they dared report it because the Qur'an allowed their husband to behave in this way.
They also feared being admonished from Islam by their husbands and family which carries the death penalty.
Honour killings are on the rise too - usually performed by family members.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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Look at the UK 30-40 years ago... Domestic violence was virtually unheard of until women plucked up the courage to speak out about it.
Until 1991, British women couldn't be raped by their husbands - that has now changed and further enhanced in 2003.

So we really aren't THAT far ahead of Muslim countries, are we?

But please do get involved with charities dealing with domestic violence, it's an eye opener, there is no denying that there is a certain percentage of Muslims, but you have to take into account that those are recent people, 2nd and 3rd generation tend to be completely different, I'm not saying it's OK but it is more understandable, they come to the country without an idea, often not speaking the language, instead of being integrated they are shunned and treated like dirt, duh, why don't they integrate under those circumstances? Don't you think it's far more shocking that a lot of domestic violence in Britain is still happening with your average British family where she can't afford to leave him, so in a lot of cases she won't report it as she has nowhere to go? Because even if she leaves him, she is often told that she shouldn't have moved out and there is no space available for her and the kids... So she is stuck in the environment, she can force him to move out, try and live of a very meager support system and be surrounded by his friends and family, life is so pleasant, you still believe British women report domestic violence? Really?

British non-Muslim women do report a lot more violence that they used to a few decades ago.
And my local Women's shelter where my step-daughter has a friend seems to have doubled in size in just the last year alone and pretty much most of the new ladies are Muslims fleeing an abusive husband and fear an honour killing is imminent.
Personally, I don't think we are that far removed from Islamic countries when it comes to our close-knit Muslim communities.

I agree, many women get stuck because of a lack of support.
But many Muslim women are stuck for additional reasons of religious dogma and prejudice.
If my local Women's shelter is anything to go by, the Muslim women found they had death threats from their husband if they dared report it because the Qur'an allowed their husband to behave in this way.
They also feared being admonished from Islam by their husbands and family which carries the death penalty.
Honour killings are on the rise too - usually performed by family members.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?

No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it.

The results would be seen at hospitals, though. Medics have learned to recognise the signs of "accidents" being something else.

And unless it is much different than here it still doesn't show up as domestic abuse without someone witnessing it and testifing, so if the wife won't press charges it still doesn't show up. A common occurance in domestic violence in all cultures.

Not here, trust me, I was knocked out by our huge male Dobie who sadly passed away 2 weeks ago, completely my own fault as I whispered "walkies" into his ear, Alfie jumped up and I was out cold as his hard head hit my chin, hubby brought me to the ER and I was grilled regarding domestic violence, they even got a social worker in, especially when somebody noticed I was bruised and scratched (cat needing meds and kickboxing), I told them cat claws as he doesn't like to take his meds and asked them to ring up the dojo and the vet. They wanted to call the police in, hubby had to answer all sorts of nasty questions, I finally pulled out my iPhone and showed them a picture of Alfie next to me and a picture we took when I had to give the cat meds and he was all claws. Legally they do have to report any injury that just doesn't add up completely or arouses the slightest suspicion, they even went through my files and brought up every fracture from the past few years.

I got a lot of questions when my son got hurt in martial arts.
But that still didn't mean it showed up as a child abuse case.
And with yours, it still didn't hit the books as domestic abuse.