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The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 7:08:37 AM

KenDckey

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quote:

Pagedale residents are subject to fines if they walk on the left side of a crosswalk; if they have a hedge more than three feet high, a weed more than seven inches high, or any dead vegetation on their property; or if they park a car at night more than 500 feet from a street lamp or other source of illumination; or if windows facing a street do not have drapes or blinds that are “neatly hung, in a presentable appearance, properly maintained and in a state of good repair”; or if their houses have unpainted foundations or chipped or aging layers of paint (even on gutters); or if there are cracks in their driveways; or if on a national holiday — the only time a barbeque may be conducted in a front yard — more than two people are gathered at the grill or there are alcoholic beverages visible within 150 feet of the grill.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428352/substantive-due-process-pagedale-case

http://time.com/4102070/missouri-town-sued-excessive-fines-pagedale/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/us/lawsuit-accuses-missouri-city-of-fining-homeowners-to-raise-revenue.html?_r=0

http://ij.org/case/pagedale-municipal-fines/

I agree with the lawsuit. If they lose this could be the future of both the Federal, State, and Local Government I believe

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 7:45:57 AM

MrRodgers

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Well local 'fascism' has always been a huge source of revenue. County auto tags...merely a tax. County real estate taxes especially in high value markets without limit. Pet registration and care fines, city and county.

Virtually all city parking is huge source of revenue. A traffic study in Vegas found that 30% of all traffic downtown...is looking for parking. Then they tax the commercial parking lots. (I imagine it's same all over)

Getting a job often requires a food handling, sheriff's and alcohol cards. Private guards and Mystery Shoppers need a PI card. Cab drivers need to pass a DOT test.

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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 7:55:03 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

Pagedale residents are subject to fines if they walk on the left side of a crosswalk; if they have a hedge more than three feet high, a weed more than seven inches high, or any dead vegetation on their property; or if they park a car at night more than 500 feet from a street lamp or other source of illumination; or if windows facing a street do not have drapes or blinds that are “neatly hung, in a presentable appearance, properly maintained and in a state of good repair”; or if their houses have unpainted foundations or chipped or aging layers of paint (even on gutters); or if there are cracks in their driveways; or if on a national holiday — the only time a barbeque may be conducted in a front yard — more than two people are gathered at the grill or there are alcoholic beverages visible within 150 feet of the grill.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428352/substantive-due-process-pagedale-case

http://time.com/4102070/missouri-town-sued-excessive-fines-pagedale/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/us/lawsuit-accuses-missouri-city-of-fining-homeowners-to-raise-revenue.html?_r=0

http://ij.org/case/pagedale-municipal-fines/

I agree with the lawsuit. If they lose this could be the future of both the Federal, State, and Local Government I believe

well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws..

arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 8:10:05 AM

KenDckey

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Tj I am against anything that doesn't allow Due Process. I am glad that SCOTUS took on 3 drunk-driving-testing cases this session because of the lack of due process. http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/12/court-to-rule-on-drunk-driving-tests/

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 8:35:11 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws.. arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

That depends on what metric you're using to compare "stop and frisk" with these city ordinances.

Ken isn't complaining that people have to follow the laws, but that the sheer volume of laws that need to be followed are quite excessive.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 8:42:22 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Tj I am against anything that doesn't allow Due Process. I am glad that SCOTUS took on 3 drunk-driving-testing cases this session because of the lack of due process. http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/12/court-to-rule-on-drunk-driving-tests/

well,.. speaking about due process.. for decades forensic science evidence has been accepted as iron-clad but recently been shown to be badly flawed.. I dont believe in "due process" or "justice".. too many innocent people have gone to jail and paid (sometimes with their lives) for crimes they didnt commit.. too many innocent people are threatened with horrific jail times and consequences if they dont plead out which is why so many do take plea deals.. That is not "due process" or "justice".. its a factory assembly line where a guilty plea or conviction is the product..

"The Washington Post revealed that in 268 trials dating back to 1972, 26 out of 28 examiners within the FBI Laboratory’s microscopic hair comparison unit “overstated forensic matches in a way that favored prosecutors in more than 95 percent” of the cases. These included cases where 14 people have since been either executed or died in prison.

In a landmark 2009 report, the National Academy of Sciences concluded that, aside from DNA, there was little, if any, meaningful scientific underpinning to many of the forensic disciplines. “With the exception of nuclear DNA analysis … no forensic method has been rigorously shown to have the capacity to consistently, and with a high degree of certainty, demonstrate a connection between evidence and a specific individual or source,” reads the report."

https://theintercept.com/2015/04/24/badforensics/

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 8:51:34 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws.. arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

That depends on what metric you're using to compare "stop and frisk" with these city ordinances.

Ken isn't complaining that people have to follow the laws, but that the sheer volume of laws that need to be followed are quite excessive.

well of course they are excessive.. and some laws are just plain stupid.. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states pick a state..
lets see, in Texas..

"Up to a felony charge can be levied for promoting the use of, or owning more than six dildos.

It is illegal to take more than three sips of beer at a time while standing.

Dallas- It’s illegal to possess realistic dildos.

El Paso- Appearing in public places wearing a “lewd dress” is prohibited.

Galveston- It is illegal to drive a motor car down Broadway before noon on Sundays.

Houston- It is illegal to sell Limburger cheese on Sunday.

Lubbock County- It is illegal to drive within an arm’s length of alcohol – including alcohol in someone else’s blood stream.

Port Arthur- Obnoxious odors may not be emitted while in an elevator."

Dude.. its all about the money.. more laws mean more money..

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 9:05:34 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws.. arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

That depends on what metric you're using to compare "stop and frisk" with these city ordinances.
Ken isn't complaining that people have to follow the laws, but that the sheer volume of laws that need to be followed are quite excessive.

well of course they are excessive.. and some laws are just plain stupid.. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states pick a state..
//snip//
Dude.. its all about the money.. more laws mean more money..

I know it's about the money. I have never denied that. And, we even agree that the laws are excessive. That was Ken's point.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 12/15/2015 9:06:08 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 9:12:34 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know it's about the money. I have never denied that. And, we even agree that the laws are excessive. That was Ken's point.

I had IJ's video as part of my tag line a while ago, I understand his point.. do you understand that the US has become a police state? The real question is.. whatcha gonna do about it?

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 9:52:51 AM

sloguy02246

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Joined: 11/5/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws.. arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

That depends on what metric you're using to compare "stop and frisk" with these city ordinances.
Ken isn't complaining that people have to follow the laws, but that the sheer volume of laws that need to be followed are quite excessive.

well of course they are excessive.. and some laws are just plain stupid.. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states pick a state..
//snip//
Dude.. its all about the money.. more laws mean more money..

I know it's about the money. I have never denied that. And, we even agree that the laws are excessive. That was Ken's point.

George Will wrote a column about this situation, pointing out that Missouri recently changed state law to keep local municipalities from creating budgets that relied heavily on traffic fines as a major source of revenue. As a consequence, many smaller communities then switched to non-traffic citations and fines to keep their revenue stream flowing.

Pagedale's non-traffic fines now account for 40% of its annual budget.

According to Will, the Institute for Justice is now representing some Pagedale residents, arguing... "that the city is subordinating the administration of justice to to the goal of generating revenue, even limiting court hours in order to cause people to fail to meet requirements, thereby subjecting them to more fines."

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RE: The Future of Government Funding? - 12/15/2015 11:27:12 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
well,.. to not be fined, ya just need to obey the laws/bylaws.. arent you one of those law-and-order types? is it really all that different from the excessive police stops (and fines) many black people have to deal with every day? is it any different than those towns that stop & fine tourists for speeding (even if the sign is obscured by bushes etc).. how many tourists want to make the trip back to fight the ticket? is it any different from asset forfeiture for alleged (fabricated) proceeds of crime? Yes, its the future of govt funding..

That depends on what metric you're using to compare "stop and frisk" with these city ordinances.
Ken isn't complaining that people have to follow the laws, but that the sheer volume of laws that need to be followed are quite excessive.

well of course they are excessive.. and some laws are just plain stupid.. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states pick a state..
//snip//
Dude.. its all about the money.. more laws mean more money..

I know it's about the money. I have never denied that. And, we even agree that the laws are excessive. That was Ken's point.

George Will wrote a column about this situation, pointing out that Missouri recently changed state law to keep local municipalities from creating budgets that relied heavily on traffic fines as a major source of revenue. As a consequence, many smaller communities then switched to non-traffic citations and fines to keep their revenue stream flowing.

Pagedale's non-traffic fines now account for 40% of its annual budget.

According to Will, the Institute for Justice is now representing some Pagedale residents, arguing... "that the city is subordinating the administration of justice to to the goal of generating revenue, even limiting court hours in order to cause people to fail to meet requirements, thereby subjecting them to more fines."

Will wrote an article months ago about the general over-criminalization of American society with some several thousand federal laws on the books and it's getting worse as one approaches the local level.

For example, don't know if it is still in effect but it was/is illegal to fall asleep taking a bath in the bathtub in Michigan. Makes one wonder just how that one was enforced.

When we moved to Va. in the 60's they had blue laws so-called. No retailers could open except gas only stations on Sunday. No liquor-by-the-drink ever. The state had a monopoly on all liquor sales through the ABC, (alcoholic beverage control board, still do) saw sales plummet. Wine and beer was allowed. Then they allowed retailers to open and liquor by the drink.

Made a windfall on licensing and taxes.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/15/2015 11:33:27 PM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to sloguy02246)

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