RE: recent obamacare news

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Lucylastic -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/23/2015 7:33:58 AM)
Barbara Dawson was just steps away from the entrance to Calhoun Liberty Hospital when she collapsed. Earlier Monday morning, staff had called police to escort Dawson out of the hospital, according the Tallahassee Democrat, because she refused to leave after doctors had cleared her for release. Insisting that she still suffered from the pains that had brought her there in the first place, Dawson pleaded for an oxygen tank, asked the officer not to take her to jail. She was arrested for disorderly conduct and trespassing, handcuffed and walked to a squad car. That’s when she fell to the ground. The officer uncuffed her and hospital staff wheeled her back into the hospital, though her vital signs looked good. Less than two hours later, Dawson was dead. An autopsy on Dawson has been performed and the results will be released Wednesday, Blountstown, Fla., police chief Mark Mallory told the Associated Press. But Dawson’s family and leaders of the Florida chapter of the NAACP say that Dawson died because police and hospital staff were negligent. “They didn’t do what they could,” Dawson’s aunt Angela Donar told Florida CBS affiliate WCTV as she wiped away tears. “… I told them, ‘Y’all done killed her.'” Hospital officials said doctors did their best to save Dawson, a 57-year-old who had long suffered from breathing problems. “Our staff was very aggressive with her treatment,” Ruth Attaway, Calhoun Liberty Hospital’s administrator and CEO , told the Tallahassee Democrat. “They did everything they could.” The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has been called in to investigate the incident. Meanwhile, Tallahassee attorney Daryl Parks, who is representing Dawson’s family, said they plan to file a lawsuit against the hospital, the Blountstown Police Department, or both. “The most reasonable thing to do is to let her sit there and be able to settle down until she felt well. Instead, she is forcibly removed and put in cuffs,” Parks told the Associated Press. “The early facts of this case should cause a great concern for everyone.” Dawson showed up at Calhoun Liberty around 10:30 p.m. on Sunday night, according to police, seeking treatment for stomach pains. She was a familiar sight at the small, 25-bed facility, where she often came with her numerous health complaints. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/23/fla-woman-dies-after-being-kicked-out-of-hospital-in-handcuffs/

mnottertail -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/23/2015 7:37:51 AM)
Thanks, Obama.

NorthernGent -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/24/2015 11:53:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 actually its about a war between systems...collectivists on one hand, and those who oppose them on the other. Is it really? As far as I can gather, these are the complaints of Americans regarding their healthcare system: Bureaucratic in terms of the amount of paper work to fill in, not seen on time, stung with huge bills that weigh 'round people's necks like a millstone. These are not problems we have with our system: we have minimal paper work, we're seen on time, we have no medical related debts or bills. Oh, and if you think people do not have access to care in practice here you need to read more - everyone gets treated, everyone. It is merely part of your ideological mind-set to refuse to accept that a public funded body could work better, and so you're imagining things that aren't actually correct. Every account of Americans using the NHS begin with: "we expected some socialist nightmare......." The reason being that like you Americans are schooled to think that public funded institutions simply can't work. But these accounts are from Americans who have actually used the NHS and their shared experience has been: very quick to be seen, choice of GPs, good quality care, zero cost, no form filling. And, so these Americans who have actually used the NHS conclude that our system simply works better. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of areas in which we don't excel - it just so happens that the NHS topic is one where we do well - to the extent it is ranked as the best value for money healthcare service in the world. Edited to add: and I meant to say that as far as I can gather the aforementioned serious deficiencies in the US system did not come about due to the system the recent government put in place. They're longstanding aren't they? Perhaps you can correct me. So, no, not collectivists versus individualists - more a case of a system that doesn't work in the interests of many people - that to me is about a broken system and not an ideological battle.

NorthernGent -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/25/2015 12:22:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Does the NHS have nearly complete autonomy from the government? How much control does the Department of Health have on the NHS. Care is ran by doctors and nurses, but as our healthcare is publicly funded then of course a government body or public institution, whatever you want to call it, does have an overseeing responsibility and authority: such as intervening in areas of obesity that sort of thing, providing long term plans, policies and the dissemination of information. It is an escapable conclusion that once your healthcare is publicly funded, then there is a need to keep costs down as public funds only go so far; and so public bodies are bound to get a grip on areas that are getting out of control in terms of the burden on the NHS: smoking and obesity being two. No one is being forced to stop eating or stop smoking, but government bodies are certainly organising campaigns to reduce the incidence of obesity and numbers of people smoking. No publicly funded body can bear excessive costs on the service and so they are duty bound, through pragmatism as much as anything else, to encourage lifestyle choices that will maintain the quality of the service. quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Who is encouraging people to visit care providers in the US? Last time I went to the Dr. was in October for my annual wellness visit (garners me a 15% reduction on my premium fees through work). Before that was January because I was sick as fuck. lol What I mean is that in English GP practices there are posters everywhere advising people, but not exactly in these words: "if you only have a common cold then you ain't sick, go home and stop wasting our time and money". In the United States, that wouldn't happen because you're an order and like any business your system will cater to orders. It's a small example of how a publicly funded body is more efficient in that there is more of an incentive to keep costs down. Under your system, you have bloated numbers of employees in these hospitals because there is no incentive to keep costs down. They'll bill you for their bloated number of employees. quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How much does private insurance run in the UK? I've had private medical insurance through my employment for many years now, although I've never used it. On average, an employer will pay 700 quid a year for an employee, at an exchange rate of about 1.5 say just over 1,000 US dollars. The way it works is the employer simply pays it as an incentive for you to work for them and you have no paperwork to fill in etc - it's just done for you and then you access care as and when needed. In my view it is completely unnecessary and it certainly has not been and never will be an incentive to work for any company. I'm happy with the NHS, and as a point of principle I have no wish to jump the queue through this private insurance, as in a way it would be disloyal to the NHS that has served my family and I well in the past; and there are people out there with serious health problems that need seeing to before me.

JVoV -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/25/2015 12:52:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Barbara Dawson was just steps away from the entrance to Calhoun Liberty Hospital when she collapsed. Earlier Monday morning, staff had called police to escort Dawson out of the hospital, according the Tallahassee Democrat, because she refused to leave after doctors had cleared her for release. Insisting that she still suffered from the pains that had brought her there in the first place, Dawson pleaded for an oxygen tank, asked the officer not to take her to jail. She was arrested for disorderly conduct and trespassing, handcuffed and walked to a squad car. That’s when she fell to the ground. The officer uncuffed her and hospital staff wheeled her back into the hospital, though her vital signs looked good. Less than two hours later, Dawson was dead. An autopsy on Dawson has been performed and the results will be released Wednesday, Blountstown, Fla., police chief Mark Mallory told the Associated Press. But Dawson’s family and leaders of the Florida chapter of the NAACP say that Dawson died because police and hospital staff were negligent. “They didn’t do what they could,” Dawson’s aunt Angela Donar told Florida CBS affiliate WCTV as she wiped away tears. “… I told them, ‘Y’all done killed her.'” Hospital officials said doctors did their best to save Dawson, a 57-year-old who had long suffered from breathing problems. “Our staff was very aggressive with her treatment,” Ruth Attaway, Calhoun Liberty Hospital’s administrator and CEO , told the Tallahassee Democrat. “They did everything they could.” The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has been called in to investigate the incident. Meanwhile, Tallahassee attorney Daryl Parks, who is representing Dawson’s family, said they plan to file a lawsuit against the hospital, the Blountstown Police Department, or both. “The most reasonable thing to do is to let her sit there and be able to settle down until she felt well. Instead, she is forcibly removed and put in cuffs,” Parks told the Associated Press. “The early facts of this case should cause a great concern for everyone.” Dawson showed up at Calhoun Liberty around 10:30 p.m. on Sunday night, according to police, seeking treatment for stomach pains. She was a familiar sight at the small, 25-bed facility, where she often came with her numerous health complaints. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/23/fla-woman-dies-after-being-kicked-out-of-hospital-in-handcuffs/ That's horrible. The hospital I went to for my hernia last year, and the gallbladder more recently, had me checked out, drugged up, shaved awkwardly, and prepped for surgery within an hour both times. Same surgeon was on both times, amazingly enough. Payment was never discussed while I was there, although the financial aid office came by to drop off some paperwork, should I need it. I don't plan on another trip to the ER anytime soon, but that one is the only one I'd choose, if necessary.

DesideriScuri -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/25/2015 11:00:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Does the NHS have nearly complete autonomy from the government? How much control does the Department of Health have on the NHS. Care is ran by doctors and nurses, but as our healthcare is publicly funded then of course a government body or public institution, whatever you want to call it, does have an overseeing responsibility and authority: such as intervening in areas of obesity that sort of thing, providing long term plans, policies and the dissemination of information. It is an escapable conclusion that once your healthcare is publicly funded, then there is a need to keep costs down as public funds only go so far; and so public bodies are bound to get a grip on areas that are getting out of control in terms of the burden on the NHS: smoking and obesity being two. No one is being forced to stop eating or stop smoking, but government bodies are certainly organising campaigns to reduce the incidence of obesity and numbers of people smoking. No publicly funded body can bear excessive costs on the service and so they are duty bound, through pragmatism as much as anything else, to encourage lifestyle choices that will maintain the quality of the service. Does the NHS or Dept. of Health make decisions on which medications/procedures/services are covered? You hear stories about only one or two medications being acceptable, but they don't work for this patient, or that patient, leaving a drug or several drugs off the table for use. I'm sure those stories have been embellished to some extent to make it sound worse than it really is, but, do those situations really happen? If DH and NHS don't agree on something, who "wins?" quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Who is encouraging people to visit care providers in the US? Last time I went to the Dr. was in October for my annual wellness visit (garners me a 15% reduction on my premium fees through work). Before that was January because I was sick as fuck. lol What I mean is that in English GP practices there are posters everywhere advising people, but not exactly in these words: "if you only have a common cold then you ain't sick, go home and stop wasting our time and money". In the United States, that wouldn't happen because you're an order and like any business your system will cater to orders. It's a small example of how a publicly funded body is more efficient in that there is more of an incentive to keep costs down. Under your system, you have bloated numbers of employees in these hospitals because there is no incentive to keep costs down. They'll bill you for their bloated number of employees. I'm not sure you understand the way the US Government goes about things, NG. In most areas, there is no incentive to keep costs down, as they can just run near-eternal deficits, or they'll increase taxes to pay for it. In the mid-00's, the Democrats were howling about how high the deficits and spending were under Bush (back then, deficits weren't all that high, but spending was increasing; deficits didn't explode until 2008-ish). After they won back Congress (2006 elections), the talk was no longer about reducing spending, but about changing how the money was being spent. While that is critical of the Democrats, I acknowledge that the GOP is not fiscally conservative, either. But, the point was that the Federal Government spends a shit ton of money, and there really isn't any incentive to reduce spending. It's hard to see that changing, either. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How much does private insurance run in the UK? I've had private medical insurance through my employment for many years now, although I've never used it. On average, an employer will pay 700 quid a year for an employee, at an exchange rate of about 1.5 say just over 1,000 US dollars. The way it works is the employer simply pays it as an incentive for you to work for them and you have no paperwork to fill in etc - it's just done for you and then you access care as and when needed. In my view it is completely unnecessary and it certainly has not been and never will be an incentive to work for any company. I'm happy with the NHS, and as a point of principle I have no wish to jump the queue through this private insurance, as in a way it would be disloyal to the NHS that has served my family and I well in the past; and there are people out there with serious health problems that need seeing to before me. Hey, if people want to pay more money for certain benefits, why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? "Necessary?" No, but worth the cost to some. In the US, there were wage controls instituted around WWII time. Since wages were the ways to attract the talent you wanted, businesses were hamstrung competing for talent. Then, the idea arose that if you were to offer better "perks" you could lure that talent. Paid health insurance was one of those perks, as wage controls were limited to wages, and not total packages (benefits + wages). That's when employer-sponsored health insurance took off. In essence, because of government rules, health insurance paid for by the employer became almost essential to draw the best talent. Prices didn't explode until the early '60's, not much before the birth of Medicare/Medicaid.

thompsonx -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/25/2015 1:53:44 PM)
In the US, there were wage controls instituted around WWII time. Since wages were the ways to attract the talent you wanted, businesses were hamstrung competing for talent. This is an absolute crock of shit. The depression created double digit unemployment . The usa did not acieve full employment(4.2% unemployment until 1942). Wage and price controls were instituted at the end of 1942. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html Then, the idea arose that if you were to offer better "perks" you could lure that talent. Paid health insurance was one of those perks, Actually it was the tax exempt status of blue cross and blue shield which began in 1929. The blue cross, blue shield plans were given tax-exempt status and permitted to operate as nonprofits. In exchange for these special provisions, blue cross and blue shield were initially required to community-rate their policies, which required them to charge different employee groups the same premium, regardless of their health status. as wage controls were limited to wages, and not total packages (benefits + wages). That's when employer-sponsored health insurance took off. In essence, because of government rules, health insurance paid for by the employer became almost essential to draw the best talent. Double digit unemployment until late 1942 is what allowed them to draw the best talent. From 1943 onward employer provided insurance became a factor. Between 1940 and 1950, the number of Americans with private health insurance increased from 20.6 million to 142.3 million. Wage and price controls were only in effect for a scant few of that ten year period. Prices didn't explode until the early '60's, not much before the birth of Medicare/Medicaid Health care cost increased in relation to the increases in wages and productivity not exponantially until the mid 60's. The combined effects of the increase in federal funding and the decrease in out-of-pocket spending generated sharp increases in the price of health care. From 1965 to 1975 the share of health care expenditures paid by third parties increased from 45 to 67 percent. Like most private plans, Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers on a fee-for-service basis. Since under fee-for-service, doctors and hospitals make more money the more services they provide, they have an incentive to maximize the volume of services. Third-party fee-for-service payment was the central mechanism of medical inflation.

MrRodgers -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 10:37:41 AM)
Look, keep in mind that the increase in life expectancy in the US since the 60's, is due exclusively to Medicare. The longer life expectancy than in the US thus in the national systems outside the US, is due to their national pay systems. Technology is both a benefit and a curse. Hence depending upon who you read, example: Japan MRI $100, US MRI $1,500. I am telling you once again, the US lives in a for-profit society with a for-profit culture. So health care whether under so-called Obamacare or not, it's not about health care and as with everything else too...its about the fucking money.

Tkman117 -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 11:04:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers its about the fucking money. And this is why the USA as we know it is doomed to fail.

NorthernGent -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 11:28:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers its about the fucking money. And this is why the USA as we know it is doomed to fail. Not true. Let's have some perspective. The United States has done very well in many areas. This conversation isn't about whether the United States will fail, which it won't anyway, it's about the quality of US healthcare, including access to services and value for money. It is generally accepted that the United States performs poorly in this area, doesn't mean they perform poorly in other areas. Every nation has her blind spots, and it just so happens that this topic is a blind spot for them. Generally they can't conceive of a system other than ran by business that could work, and in the sphere of health this is to their detriment. Were it another topic, the chances are that the United States would compare favourably with most other countries.

MariaB -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 11:40:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Look, keep in mind that the increase in life expectancy in the US since the 60's, is due exclusively to Medicare. The longer life expectancy than in the US thus in the national systems outside the US, is due to their national pay systems. Technology is both a benefit and a curse. Hence depending upon who you read, example: Japan MRI $100, US MRI $1,500. I am telling you once again, the US lives in a for-profit society with a for-profit culture. So health care whether under so-called Obamacare or not, it's not about health care and as with everything else too...its about the fucking money. It is indeed and Britain is following on its heels.

thompsonx -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 12:51:32 PM)
I gotta tell you mate I was in oz in the late 60's. I was riding a push bike across from perth to sydney when I got hit by a car. I was taken straight away to hospital where they applied bandaids and such. When the doctor told me I could be on my way I asked how much was the bill? After they got done laughing they replied "you yanks, do you always think with your wallet. No charge mate we have free health care here". To which I replied that I was not a citizen of oz but just a tourist. He asked "would you prefer they had left you on the highway. Now get on with you mate, we need that bed for sick people."They gave me a script for some pain meds and told me to check in with a pharmacist when I got to sydney, which was less than a day away by push bike.

Termyn8or -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 2:13:27 PM)
Nothing personal, but they shouldn't have done it. (you'll know when I get personal) Really, if the US goes to single payer and health care is taxpayer funded, do you want foreigners to get what USians pay for ? Sounds like in your case it was minor. Also, in the US they probably would want to do a bunch of Xrays and CAT scans and whatnot - most likely to pad the bill. Also to keep down the malpractice. But what if someone comes here from another country, has never paid a dime of US taxes and all the sudden needs brain surgery or something ? I do believe some European countries have reciprocal agreements regarding such things, however none of them would be stupid enough to enter into one with the US because everything costs five times as much here. Like someone with appendicitis, would it be cheaper to charter a supersonic jet to get them home rather than pay these thieves ? Actually I am surprised other countries do not have hospitals in their embassies. I would, rather than pay all that. We have the best government money can buy, and healthcare too. Some Arab Sheik needs a special procedure and couldn't go to Cuba then, winds up paying a new west wing or library for it. But they don't care about money of course. I am surprised that they are not cloning themselves for body parts. Just think, no immunosuppressive drugs ! Hey, maybe some are. Bottom line is that before insurance, the market would not bear these rates. Decades ago, we could walk to the doctor, practiced in his home. We did not even have to cross a big street to get there. Office visits maybe $20, NOT COPAY, that is what is cost. They didn't need 32 Xrays to set a broken bone because they knew what they were doing. Cost was very low, but if things got too high some would take payments. The prices could not be too much higher otherwise people simply would not be able to afford it, and then whether or not they get the procedure you do not get the money. Same with cars, back in 1965 if someone found out the taillight lens was $350 they would never ever buy that car. Now, people will overeat until they're 500 pounds and then the surgery to remove the fat is like twenty grand, maybe $200 copay. Back then, you might get the job done for what the copay is now. People ate their veggies and stayed active. they also made sure there was oil in their car. No seat belts needed, they didn't tailgate. And their kids went out and played and climbed trees. If one fell out, the nearest adult would take the kid to the doctor and call the Parent(s). Today you got two ambulances, a SWAT team, three cop cars, dope sniffing dogs and at least two lawyers. (yes, your sarcasm detector should read about 4.8 on that one) But seriously, someone else's kid climbing your tree and falling out and getting injured might cause a big lawsuit these days. And it might not even be greed, it might be that the fucking hospital bill was ten grand and they cannot afford it. Back then it might have been like $75 out the door, cast and all. And all this has prevented nothing. My neighbors had been quiet for a time. I ran into the Patriarch of the family at the beverage store the other day and quipped "We were going to come check if you were alive around Halloween because there was hardly any yard decorations". they got kids and they do that shit. Not this year. Wekk he told me one of the grandkids got out of the yard at Grandma's house, got about seven houses up the street and jumped into a private pond type thing, you know, they usually got lights and some people actually put fish in them. He drowned. Well we got people here who would try to turn that into a multimillion dollar lawsuit. Do they think these people have that kind of money ? Whether orr not is cures their sorrow is a different matter. But in the old days people did not think like that, to capitalize on tragedy, but now they do. Know why ? Insurance. I had a house, I don't own anymore but I remember. the limits on the insurance were like a hundred grand, ten on any other structures, like a garage, maybe twenty on contents, but a MILLION on liability. In this country there are people, me included, who will not shovel the sidewalk. If people trip and fall and die or whatever, it is an act of god. If I shovel or salt, then I did something to make it happen. So now people without cars have a harder time walking up the street, because of insurance. And I am not alone in this, not by a longshot. Bottom line is that half of this society bleeds the other half. And that is how people get rich. In the old days, hard work could make you slightly rich. Nowadays that profit is eaten up by executives and investors. And you really shouldn't bitch because that is where Grampa's retirement check comes from. So people are dependent on this bullshit system now. They could have just saved up their own money and financed their own retirement but since the fiat currency keeps dropping in value you have to suck more money out of somewhere. That is why the rich have to be so greedy to stay rich. If you have $100 and its value drops 20 %, that isn't all that bad. But if you have a billion dollars and the value drops 20 % you have lost a hell of alot more. This system has become so entrenched that the government now has to prop it up with quantitative easing. The net result of that is when it finally does go down, people will have not seen the warning signs and get their money out of it and will again lose. There should have been an ARMED revolution when the government called in all the privately held gold. I mean that fucking day. Now that that did not happen we are fucked. You and most USians may disagree, but the reason for that is that you do not realize just how good it could be. Like why they take taxes out of paychecks, the person does not miss what he does not see. But what most do not realize is how much their work is taxed before the gross on their check is figured out. Actually, we HAVE been paying enough taxes to support a single payer system but they are stealing too much. Just like tax lavies for this and for that - WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THAT ! "Oh, well that money is gone". Just like Germany's gold "Well, yup we still have it, we sure do, but it will take years to get it all back to you". Venezuela got theirs back in a couple of days. This is a government of institutionalised thieves. I am starting to really believe something I said flippantly a long time ago - that they WANT traffic jams to collect more fuel taxes. They half closed a bridge here, and then completely closed it for a while. This is a major crosstown thoroughfare. the put all kinds of pretty lights on it and added a bike lane. But they didn't fix the fucking potholes. Want to see it ? The Lorain Carnegie bridge in Cleveland. Oh, they named it something, which seems to be what congress does the best now, naming roads and bridges. Got to memorialize someone, never mind about the real important business, it can wait, the Will Rogers Trail is still called route 7, this MUST be addressed immediately. Useless fucks. Maybe we are luck they don't work in the private sector, there would be no business in business at all. Remember the house banking scandal ? Even back then they could not balance a checkbook. And we want them to balance the budget ? I think we should outsource the government. Let the Chinese do it, but according to the Constitution. The people we have here are fucking useless. T^T

thompsonx -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 2:30:02 PM)
Nothing personal, but they shouldn't have done it. Where do you get off teling another soverign country what they should do? (you'll know when I get personal) I have read your panty waist tirades....I have herd harsher shit from penguins (nuns) Really, if the US goes to single payer and health care is taxpayer funded, do you want foreigners to get what USians pay for ? Sure...why not??? they are human. Mercnbeth moved to italy because they could not afford her cancer treatment here. Grow up and stop trying to be such a jerk.

Phydeaux -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 2:36:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Look, keep in mind that the increase in life expectancy in the US since the 60's, is due exclusively to Medicare. The longer life expectancy than in the US thus in the national systems outside the US, is due to their national pay systems. Technology is both a benefit and a curse. Hence depending upon who you read, example: Japan MRI $100, US MRI $1,500. I am telling you once again, the US lives in a for-profit society with a for-profit culture. So health care whether under so-called Obamacare or not, it's not about health care and as with everything else too...its about the fucking money. Complete and utter rubbish. The increases in life expectancy are due to decreases in smoking, better ambulance service, decreases in response time due to things like helicopters. Medicare has damn near nothing to do with it. And the differences in life expectancies has nothing to do with standards of care, it has to do with gang violence and drug addiction.

Phydeaux -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 2:51:14 PM)
the idea that price increases in the 2000's were driven by fee for service models is ridiculous. Price drivers then were largely to compensate for decreasing insurance rates, and decreasing federal reimbursement rates.

NorthernGent -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 2:56:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I do believe some European countries have reciprocal agreements regarding such things, however none of them would be stupid enough to enter into one with the US because everything costs five times as much here. Like someone with appendicitis, would it be cheaper to charter a supersonic jet to get them home rather than pay these thieves ? Maybe, but we don't have a reciprocal agreement with the Americans. Any American visiting England can access the NHS, so can anyone from any country for that matter. Free of charge. Because the foundation upon which the NHS is built is the premise that healthcare is a basic human right. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jennifer-gunter/nhs-emergency-room-_b_5677618.html Having said that, our current Conservative Government is doing its level best to dismantle our NHS because those people, usually born into wealthy families and schooled at places like Eton, just can't bear to see something work for the average man on the street.

Lucylastic -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 3:04:47 PM)
Maternal deaths were up well over 130% in 2011 compared to 1985 I dont think you know what you are talking about.

MrRodgers -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 3:21:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers its about the fucking money. And this is why the USA as we know it is doomed to fail. Yep, and likely when but not before the dollar fails, which will take a while and maybe something catastrophic.

MrRodgers -> RE: recent obamacare news (12/26/2015 3:25:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers its about the fucking money. And this is why the USA as we know it is doomed to fail. Not true. Let's have some perspective. The United States has done very well in many areas. This conversation isn't about whether the United States will fail, which it won't anyway, it's about the quality of US healthcare, including access to services and value for money. It is generally accepted that the United States performs poorly in this area, doesn't mean they perform poorly in other areas. Every nation has her blind spots, and it just so happens that this topic is a blind spot for them. Generally they can't conceive of a system other than ran by business that could work, and in the sphere of health this is to their detriment. Were it another topic, the chances are that the United States would compare favourably with most other countries. Except that the reason both me and Tkman agree is that west in general and America in particular are debt based societies. America alone has run up $60 to $70 trillion in total public and private debt since WWII. Unfunded liabilities are going up last I checked...$7 million/per MINUTE. Blame it on the fed and the banking cartel. Mission accomplished.

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