NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (Full Version)

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KenDckey -> NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 1:50:54 PM)

quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/us/lawsuit-challenges-new-orleanss-plan-to-remove-confederate-monuments.html

A lawsuit is challenging a city plan to remove prominent Confederate monuments by alleging that the city does not own the land under three of the monuments and that they are protected from removal by state and federal laws.

The suit, filed shortly after the City Council voted Thursday to remove four monuments, asked Judge Carl Barbier of Federal District Court in New Orleans to halt removal plans. The suit was filed by three preservation organizations and a New Orleans chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

The decision by New Orleans is one of the most sweeping gestures yet by an American city to sever ties with its Confederate past. New Orleans, like other places, was spurred into action against Confederate symbols after a shooting at an African-American church in Charleston, S. C., in June left nine parishioners dead.

The 51-page suit said removal would be unlawful for many other reasons — including violating laws protecting monuments dedicated to military veterans and history.

It also argues that the Lee and Beauregard monuments are protected because they are on the National Register of Historic Places, and the Davis monument because it was nominated for the register.

The suit also claimed that the city’s use of the nuisance ordinance was flawed, that the monuments did not fit its definition and that the city cannot claim ownership to three of the monuments because the land under them was donated by the city to groups raising money for the monuments between 1877 and 1911.


I think this is another dumb knee jerk decision. Keep this kinda thing going and we will eliminate every monument (other than to native americans) because it is offensive to someone, but then so would the native american monuments and names to some. There is no end.




BamaD -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 2:55:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/us/lawsuit-challenges-new-orleanss-plan-to-remove-confederate-monuments.html

A lawsuit is challenging a city plan to remove prominent Confederate monuments by alleging that the city does not own the land under three of the monuments and that they are protected from removal by state and federal laws.

The suit, filed shortly after the City Council voted Thursday to remove four monuments, asked Judge Carl Barbier of Federal District Court in New Orleans to halt removal plans. The suit was filed by three preservation organizations and a New Orleans chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

The decision by New Orleans is one of the most sweeping gestures yet by an American city to sever ties with its Confederate past. New Orleans, like other places, was spurred into action against Confederate symbols after a shooting at an African-American church in Charleston, S. C., in June left nine parishioners dead.

The 51-page suit said removal would be unlawful for many other reasons — including violating laws protecting monuments dedicated to military veterans and history.

It also argues that the Lee and Beauregard monuments are protected because they are on the National Register of Historic Places, and the Davis monument because it was nominated for the register.

The suit also claimed that the city’s use of the nuisance ordinance was flawed, that the monuments did not fit its definition and that the city cannot claim ownership to three of the monuments because the land under them was donated by the city to groups raising money for the monuments between 1877 and 1911.


I think this is another dumb knee jerk decision. Keep this kinda thing going and we will eliminate every monument (other than to native americans) because it is offensive to someone, but then so would the native american monuments and names to some. There is no end.


Wrong, I am sure that Native American monuments offend someone, maybe Sons of the 7th Cavalry?




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 3:37:09 PM)

I think it a mistake to try to hide our past. It's far more important that actions be taken to prevent us from going back.

We can't change that slavery existed. We also can't deny that there would be almost no black Americans today without the legacy of slavery in our past.

We just have to move on. And let go of a war fought so long ago.

We could pave Gettysburg and turn it into a Super WalMart, and still not fix a damn thing.




BamaD -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 3:58:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think it a mistake to try to hide our past. It's far more important that actions be taken to prevent us from going back.

We can't change that slavery existed. We also can't deny that there would be almost no black Americans today without the legacy of slavery in our past.

We just have to move on. And let go of a war fought so long ago.

We could pave Gettysburg and turn it into a Super WalMart, and still not fix a damn thing.

Agree.




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 4:58:22 PM)

I think this is another dumb knee jerk decision. Keep this kinda thing going and we will eliminate every monument (other than to native americans) because it is offensive to someone, but then so would the native american monuments and names to some. There is no end.


Why do you think traitors should have monuments.




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:01:09 PM)

Wrong, I am sure that Native American monuments offend someone, maybe Sons of the 7th Cavalry?


Custer had it comming...what kind of a fool goes to an ass kicking contest barefoot?




KenDckey -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:04:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I think this is another dumb knee jerk decision. Keep this kinda thing going and we will eliminate every monument (other than to native americans) because it is offensive to someone, but then so would the native american monuments and names to some. There is no end.


Why do you think traitors should have monuments.

Don'ty see their names on the list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason


Walter Allen was convicted of treason on September 16, 1922 for taking part in the 1921 miners war with the coal companies and the US Army on Blair Mountain, West Virginia. He was sentenced to 10 years and fined. During his appealed to the Supreme Court he disappeared while out on bail. United Mineworkers of America leader William Blizzard was acquitted of the charge of treason by the jury on May 25, 1922.
Robert Henry Best, convicted of treason on April 16, 1948 and served a life sentence.
John Brown, convicted of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1859 and executed for attempting to organize armed resistance to slavery.
Iva Toguri D'Aquino, who is frequently identified with "Tokyo Rose" convicted 1949. Subsequently pardoned by President Gerald Ford.
Governor Thomas Dorr 1844, convicted of treason against the state of Rhode Island; see Dorr Rebellion; released in 1845; civil rights restored in 1851; verdict annulled in 1854.
John Fries, the leader of Fries' Rebellion, convicted of treason in 1800 along with two accomplices, and pardoned that same year by John Adams.
Mildred Gillars, also known as "Axis Sally", convicted of treason on March 8, 1949; served 12 years of a 10- to 30-year prison sentence.
Herbert Hans Haupt, German-born naturalized U.S. citizen, was convicted of treason in 1942 and executed after being named as a German spy by fellow German spies defecting to the United States.
Tomoya Kawakita, sentenced to death for treason in 1952, but eventually released by President John F. Kennedy to be deported to Japan.
Martin James Monti, United States Army Air Forces pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen SS in 1944. He was paroled in 1960.
William Bruce Mumford, convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.
Aaron Dwight Stevens, took part in John Brown's raid and was executed in 1860 for treason against Virginia.
Philip Vigol and John Mitchell, convicted of treason and sentenced to hanging; pardoned by George Washington; see Whiskey Rebellion.




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:04:17 PM)

What kind of fool can't use the damn Quote button? Srsly dude. It's not that complicated.




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:07:16 PM)


ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think it a mistake to try to hide our past.

Is glorifying traitors hiding our past?


It's far more important that actions be taken to prevent us from going back.

We can't change that slavery existed. We also can't deny that there would be almost no black Americans today without the legacy of slavery in our past.

This seems to say that slavery was a good thing???is that what you meant? If not just what did you mean?




KenDckey -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:07:31 PM)

so how in the hell do you get pics to show up. tried that never works lol




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:09:13 PM)

You have to use the IMG tags for forums and have the exact url of the pic you wanna use.




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:11:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think it a mistake to try to hide our past.

Is glorifying traitors hiding our past?


It's far more important that actions be taken to prevent us from going back.

We can't change that slavery existed. We also can't deny that there would be almost no black Americans today without the legacy of slavery in our past.

This seems to say that slavery was a good thing???is that what you meant? If not just what did you mean?


Conversing with you in this forum is as brainpaining as having a staring contest with a lazy-eyed cat. The quote button makes life so much easier, if you actually gave two shits about having a dialogue.




KenDckey -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:11:47 PM)

Ahhhhhhh s ince the pics I wanted to put on were in my files, that could be a trick lol




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:16:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Ahhhhhhh s ince the pics I wanted to put on were in my files, that could be a trick lol


Yeah, uploading pics to the forum seems to not work as of late. You could try uploading them to an image hosting site, and linking from there.




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:17:40 PM)

What part of the question did you not understand?




JVoV -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 5:44:32 PM)

When a soldier fights, it is because he either has no choice, or because he has been convinced that his side is righteous in their cause.

It's the leadership, and the ones pulling the strings, that must be questioned and punished.

I have no interest in debating history, nor for dishonoring the long-dead on either side.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 6:05:19 PM)

One man's traitor is another man's patriot.




MercTech -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 6:06:12 PM)

Some people just can't resist trying to cram their local tiny tribal customs down the throat of everyone claiming they have some sort of universal significance.




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 6:30:47 PM)


ORIGINAL: JVoV

When a soldier fights, it is because he either has no choice, or because he has been convinced that his side is righteous in their cause.
It's the leadership, and the ones pulling the strings, that must be questioned and punished.




The three monuments in question are to traitors. Two senior officers in the usa army,lee and beauregard and a usa senator davis who left the union and formed a rebellion against our country. These were the leaders of the rebellion. Why should there be monuments to traitors?

I have no interest in debating history,

Would you rather ignore it?


nor for dishonoring the long-dead on either side.

Why should we honor traitors? Should we put up monuments to jhonnie pollard and aldrich ames?




thompsonx -> RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit (12/20/2015 6:33:17 PM)


ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

One man's traitor is another man's patriot.


These particular traitors lost the rebellion they formented and fought.




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