RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee?

RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (Full Version)

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blnymph -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/28/2015 4:06:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or ... except that they did the country alot of good and Germans still reap the benefits in industrialisation that Hitler started. Well, actually, no they did not the country a lot of good, not at all ... and what is "reaped" is rather rooted in the country-wide "update" of industry needed to get back to business after wartime destruction. I live in a town where unexploded WWII bombs are still in the ground and are dug up at a frequency of about twice a year (and still exploding if things go wrong). I travel on rail tracks which are still rebuilt to what they were before the war because they have been demolished for reparation. German towns are no longer in ruins but the amount of destruction and the changes are visible. Hundreds of thousands were deported and their homes given to other hundreds of thousands of deported. Industrialisation in Germany happened in the 2nd half of the 19th century, not after 1933. The nazis did a lot of "Gleichschaltung" and propaganda but not much to actually improve infrastructure or industry apart from the Hermann Göring Werke which were a big fraud. All the other major industrial complexes that took a part in German rearmament after 1933 existed before - many did no longer after. The first autobahn was built in 1931 and the planning already done for those Hitler made the jobless dig - a big propaganda show. I am puzzled that apparently some people still believe in Goebbels propaganda. And closer to original topic: It takes one to maybe more generations: My grandmother still feels a refugee when thinking of the town where she was born and the house her family lived in for a few centuries before she was born. Of course she feels at home where she lives now but certain memories and feelings do not change with postal address or passport.

thompsonx -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/28/2015 8:03:17 AM)
ORIGINAL: Termyn8or They were seriously pissed off after seeing their country brought nearly to ruins by people who were ACTUALLY inferior, and the fact that they got as far as they did proves that. They thought the russians were inferior to them but the russians showed them just how to bitch slap a punkassmotherfuker who thinks a sucker punch can win a fight.

thompsonx -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/28/2015 8:05:04 AM)
Actually it goes back to the 40's when Isreal got their independence the Arabs istantly declared war on them. They told the Arabs in israel to leave and that in a few days, after they had destroed Israel they could go back. That is when they formed the "refugee" camps. Since that form a pool of resentment they used them as a weapon against Israel and have never made a serious attempt to assimulate them. 90 years and they still think of themselves as refugees. The spaniards considered themselves refugees for about 6 or 7 hundred years until they reclaimed their country from the muslims.

MrRodgers -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/28/2015 9:32:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "You two plus Mr Rogers think that the Nazis were a peaceful, unassuming lot set up by Britain, "the Jews", "the bankers", and this has led to "the US of K"." I do not think, nor have I ever said or written or typed that I thought the Nazis were peaceful. They were seriously pissed off after seeing their country brought nearly to ruins by people who were ACTUALLY inferior, and the fact that they got as far as they did proves that. However that does not mean they were right, or moral, or nice or kind. Nothing of the sort. They pretty much acted like the US government on steroids, except that they did the country alot of good and Germans still reap the benefits in industrialisation that Hitler started. But they were not nice. T^T There is reading what is said and there is reading in what one wants. In fact what I have been writing is that there were two powers or parties in Germany. There were the warmongers (oligarchs/lenders/bankers) and there were the political regime. Hitler wanted to use the political regime for the restoration of Germany as an economic and political power and the warmongers wanted a multi-billion$ war. Those 'Nazis' were never anything like peaceful. Look, since the middle ages, these conflicts do not occur in a vacuum. Even the Crusades needed the fucking money. Even the fucking Pope...need his fucking money. That's the something the Medici family discovered in Florence around 1400, and started yep, you guessed it...a bank. Once the Pope opened up an account, it was a done deal. I think the last 'war' without bankers (money) may have been history's best cavalry...the Monguls. They lived off their conquests.

NorthernGent -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/28/2015 11:47:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "You two plus Mr Rogers think that the Nazis were a peaceful, unassuming lot set up by Britain, "the Jews", "the bankers", and this has led to "the US of K"." I do not think, nor have I ever said or written or typed that I thought the Nazis were peaceful. They were seriously pissed off after seeing their country brought nearly to ruins by people who were ACTUALLY inferior, and the fact that they got as far as they did proves that. However that does not mean they were right, or moral, or nice or kind. Nothing of the sort. They pretty much acted like the US government on steroids, except that they did the country alot of good and Germans still reap the benefits in industrialisation that Hitler started. But they were not nice. T^T Yes, according to websites populated by cranks and general know-nothings Hitler set in motion German industrialisation. Meanwhile in the real world, German industry had surpassed Britain's by 1900. They were the first nation to out produce us. Staying close to the real world, by the time Hitler had finished what he started Germany was reduced to rubble. Some fella you hold in high esteem there.

tweakabelle -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/29/2015 7:35:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Actually it goes back to the 40's when Isreal got their independence the Arabs istantly declared war on them. They told the Arabs in israel to leave and that in a few days, after they had destroed Israel they could go back. That is when they formed the "refugee" camps. Since that form a pool of resentment they used them as a weapon against Israel and have never made a serious attempt to assimulate them. 90 years and they still think of themselves as refugees. This is utter hogwash. In the years preceding Israel's Declaration of Independence (ie from 1945 and especially during 1947-9) there was a systematic organised campaign to drive the Arabs out carried out by Jewish terrorist groups such as the Irgun, Haganah and Lehi. This was the start of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, a process still carried on to this day and visible to any clear-eyed informed observer of the situation in the West Bank. The fact of this ethnic cleansing is not disputed by Israeli academic historians today who concede that the version of events given in Bama's post is pure propaganda and fiction. But it's clear that the widespread dissemination of the lie that the Palestinians fled because of other Arabs suggesting it still holds strong in some poorly informed and biased quarters. For a detailed account of it all, see "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, 2006.

TieMeInKnottss -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/29/2015 5:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Actually it goes back to the 40's when Isreal got their independence the Arabs istantly declared war on them. They told the Arabs in israel to leave and that in a few days, after they had destroed Israel they could go back. That is when they formed the "refugee" camps. Since that form a pool of resentment they used them as a weapon against Israel and have never made a serious attempt to assimulate them. 90 years and they still think of themselves as refugees. The spaniards considered themselves refugees for about 6 or 7 hundred years until they reclaimed their country from the muslims. My curiosity originated when I was reading something that stated that, in the 1960s, after the second refugee exodus out of the Israel/Palestine region there were apx 700,000 Palestinian refugees. In 2014, there were 4 MILLION Palestinian refugees. How???

thompsonx -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/29/2015 6:57:55 PM)
ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss ORIGINAL: thompsonx Actually it goes back to the 40's when Isreal got their independence the Arabs istantly declared war on them. They told the Arabs in israel to leave and that in a few days, after they had destroed Israel they could go back. That is when they formed the "refugee" camps. Since that form a pool of resentment they used them as a weapon against Israel and have never made a serious attempt to assimulate them. 90 years and they still think of themselves as refugees. The spaniards considered themselves refugees for about 6 or 7 hundred years until they reclaimed their country from the muslims. My curiosity originated when I was reading something that stated that, in the 1960s, after the second refugee exodus out of the Israel/Palestine region there were apx 700,000 Palestinian refugees. In 2014, there were 4 MILLION Palestinian refugees. How??? Perhaps if you were to share that article with me I would be...how shall we say???on the same page. I am a pretty bright fellow but I am not a mind reader.

TieMeInKnottss -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/29/2015 7:26:42 PM)
http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/06/20/how-many-refugees/ That is the whole article. Below is the specific excerpt....just so you don't need to read my little female mind... A general view of the Jenin refugee camp is seen near the West Bank city of Jenin September 6, 2011 (Courtesy REUTERS/Abed Omar Qusini). A general view of the Jenin refugee camp is seen near the West Bank city of Jenin September 6, 2011 (Courtesy REUTERS/Abed Omar Qusini). Share 206 Share -- Tweet Today the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (or PCBS) commemorated World Refugee Day by releasing new statistics on Palestinian refugees. Therein lies a tale. The PCBS reported that there are now 5.1 million Palestinian refugees. Here is what it said about their age: The Palestinian Refugees are characterized as young population where 41.7% of them are under the age of 15 years for Palestinian refugees in Palestinian territory, 35.9% of Palestinian refugees in Jordan in 2007, and 33.1% for Palestinian refugees in Syria in 2009, while 30.4% for Palestinian refugees in Lebanon in 2010. This means, for example, that more than a third of Palestinian “refugees” in Jordan were born after 1997. That is either thirty years (if after the 1967 war) or almost fifty years (if they fled when Israel was established in 1948) after their parents or more likely grandparents arrived in Jordan. Those in Jordan have full Jordanian citizenship and vote in Jordan, which means this: a young Jordanian of Palestinian origin, whose family has lived in Jordan for thirty years and who has himself or herself always lived in Jordan, is still considered a “refugee.” This is bizarre, and the new statistics are a reminder of the unique definition applied to Palestinian “refugees.” For every other category of refugees in the world, the 1951 UN Convention on the status of refugees clearly applies to the refugee only and not subsequent generations. This is the definition used by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees today. Only in the Palestinian case does a separate organization, the UN Relief and Works Agency, count not only those who actually left their homes but those in succeeding generations, presumably forever, and regardless of whether those progeny were born and are settled elsewhere with full citizenship.

thompsonx -> RE: When Do You Stop Being A Refugee? (12/30/2015 4:12:23 AM)
It would appear that your cite answers your question. Thank you for providig it.

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