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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:32:34 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s

 I don't see a dam soul complaining about bacon being served in restaurants .. guess what . decade ago it was determined to contain carcenogens ....


Yeah, but, you're missing a rather key point here Tamer..."second hand bacon" isn't (currently) a known killer.

(And when it is...I would appreciate it if you took it outside)

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 7/19/2006 9:33:08 PM >

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:39:00 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

To the other poster who says she can smell it anyway, in the words of a 91 year old, poppycock. If the gases from the cigarette do not come to your nose, you do not smell it. It is psychosomatic. Believe me these things happen.



Actually it is possible to smell the smoke because the odor and the smoke literally gets asorbed by fabrics (such as clothing, furniture, etc).  Thats why when houses have fires you have to use special cleaning services to get the smell of smoke out of the furniture.*

C~

See: http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/hesguide/clothing/gh0145.htm




_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:57:17 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		fast reply to no one in particular....

The town in which I live has a Mosquito Abatement department. Once a week they coat the entire town in this toxic poisonous crap that has already been banned in several states. They do it because ignorant people think it's nice not to have to deal with the mosquitoes. We all have to deal with it...and we even have to pay for it.

Now my mother has severe breathing problems. If she were to come in contact with this spray it could trigger an attack that could kill her. The Mosquito Abatement department has been notified of her condition and is required to call us 24 hours in advance of spraying so that we can lock the house down as tight as a drum. They are also not allowed to spray the property directly and must shut down before they get here and restart once they are past.

I have a neighbor who is a non smoker. She is always bitching about smokers and talks about them like they are on the same level as Charles Manson. She talks of how smokers are violating her right to clean air. So I was rather surprised the other day when she mentioned that she was going to call the Mosquito Abatement department to complain that my mother's breathing problem was infringing on her right to live mosquito free....even though if her right takes precedence it could literally kill my mother.

I would say to those who are complaining....make sure your own backyard is clean before you complain about someone else's.

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 10:13:47 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My backyard is clean... but then again I am entirely sympathetic of people like your mother and I would not want to be sprayed by poison either, give me the mosquitos instead.

I do not hate smokers, but I do not want to be around smoke. It was very hard to quit just to have to breath other people's tobacco. If somehow the tobacco lobby succeeded and won the right for smokers to smoke in restaurants, I would boycott the ones that allowed it, but that is how I feel about it all.... others will differ.



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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 10:24:05 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Wow.  I'm not feeling the hate either.  I smoked for 7 years in my early 20's.  I quit cold turkey, as soon as I found out I was pregnant.

I was diagnosed with asthma last summer.  I know of no one in my family with asthma and my first attack took place at the end of ragweed season, so best guess -- allergic asthma.

When I indulged in smoking I was always mindful of others and didn't subject them to my vice, unless I was in a restaurant where smoking was allowed (this was in the late 70's, early 80's, much different than today).  I didn't feel that my rights were being impeded on when I stepped outside to have a smoke, I understood that some people can't be around it - now I'm one of them. 


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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 10:30:03 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Wild;

That does not refute the statement.

Tell me how YOU KNOW that second hand smoke is not the real red herring. Please support your statement with some sort of reference or something. Please prove all medical histories cited etc., or you accept the possibility that you are wr...wr...wr...wr...

You KNOW.

T

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 10:41:50 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		An amusing true tail.. I was sitting on my porch reading, drinking coffee and smoking. Up the drive way comes a couple of boyos white shirtd narrow black ties polished black shoes and pressed black trousers and both well groomed and carying some form of literature.. After a few pleasantries I invited them to sit up wind of me so my smoke was blowing away from them.. Strangly they seemed to forget about their attempts to convert thos Pagan Old Fart to their religious beliefs and concentrated to harang me about my choice of smoking.. I patiently listen for a short while and requested ther we change the subject or leave. Nada!! No bloody way were they going to let up.. Woth me neigbours watching the side show with much hilarity, the one who was at this time standig and in my face was propelled to the fence and depostited over it onto the road. His partner was escorted (I immagine that my fingers left bruises on his arm) through the gate. Well fuck me dead if the bloke I tossed over the fence didnt try to come back waving his blble in his hand and threatening to smite me with the Sword of God! Ermm he went backwards after I served him a knuckle sandwich as the police who had arived sat pissing themselves laughing.....Now I was legal and after all what could a 61 year one disabled pensioner do when confronted by to young guys?

The point is, we each have the right to make our choices and especially when we are mindfull of other peoples' choices regarding smoking....



< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/19/2006 10:42:21 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 11:44:50 PM   
MistyMenthal


Posts: 413
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline 		My Parents where Heavy Smokers thus I was Born.
If I get anything in the future, health problem wise,
then it will be on my account, not theirs.

Misty, MENTHAL

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 12:18:17 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

My opinon on the poor maligned smokers: 

Suck it up!.. We non-smokers have been doing it for years.

What will we be asked to do next? Provide barf buckets for heroine addicts at the  restaurant tables?  A habit is a habit.

And I'd like to thank all the idiots that visit Arizona in the summer time that  think flicking the butts out the window won't harm anything.  It's how the majority of the wildfires get started here.. from #$%^&*()smokers!


For us people that have to put up with unnecessary traffic because people are too idle to get off their fat arses and walk or bike or do any other form of none polutting locomotion that resembles exercise, we have been sucking it up for years. Shit, we even subsidize people's preferred mode of transport, the anti-social car. So you can suck it up.

I don't believe for one moment this anti smoking is about health. It is about people having petty power over someone else. If it was really about health there is a lot of other things that would be above it on the list but people aren't really interested in them, they want point the finger at someone and feel good about themselves.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 12:47:46 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Hell yes I'd rather be driven than to walk. It's more convient it's safer than being on foot on publich highways and road ways, and you can not cart home 50 bags of groceries on foot as easily as in a car.

Of course our grocery stores are not close to the house like in bigger cities.

Still riding in the car beats walking anyday, expesially in this 105 degree heat lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

[I think a government survey showed 40% of all car journeys are not necessary. people will drive 100 metres to the local store than walk

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 2:32:33 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

To the other poster who says she can smell it anyway, in the words of a 91 year old, poppycock. If the gases from the cigarette do not come to your nose, you do not smell it. It is psychosomatic. Believe me these things happen.

Not poppycock.  People who smoke, smell of smoke.  Those who have been in a smoking zone smell of smoke.  People taste of smoke.  Skin, tongues mouths all taste and smell of it.  Peoples cum and vaginal fluids taste of smoke.  Its no different to someone who eats onions or garlic.
Oh, and glass can absorb smoke(as does wallpaper, stationary and fabric), so can also taste and smell of smoke.(I can do science me)
 
As for the cat analagy - its kind of a non starter.  Cats are not allowed in eating establishments because of the health risk - no matter how small.  Smoking is no different.
 
Oh and asthma IS an allergy to smoke. (Not cats...)
 
You are right - why walk into a bar or resturant that allows smoking, if you don't like it.  Thats like walking into a sushi bar and demanding they dont offer any fish.  But don't cop out by saying that smoking doesnt harm life... or that cars are worse.  Doesn't really matter how little effect its having, it is still having an effect.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 3:03:52 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

 
Oh and asthma IS an allergy to smoke. (Not cats...)



This doesn't explain why astma has been dramatically increasing while smoking has been in steep decline.

What it does indicate is a fixation by little Hitlers on smokers while not even caring what the real reason is why asthma is on the increase.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 6:00:21 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

 
Oh and asthma IS an allergy to smoke. (Not cats...)



This doesn't explain why astma has been dramatically increasing while smoking has been in steep decline.

What it does indicate is a fixation by little Hitlers on smokers while not even caring what the real reason is why asthma is on the increase.

Well, taken out of context of my original post - but I will bite
 
Asthma has taken a dramatic increase in the past 25-30 years.  Nobody has been able to pinpoint exact reasons as to why - but there are a number of contributing factors.
Pollution is one.  Bad diet is another.  Breast feeding dropped dramatically in the 60s and 70s - right up to the early 80s... another possible factor.  Climate change is another key factor.  Although global warming is increasing, this makes for colder and more severe weather - this is a contributing factor to asthma.
 
I wouldn't claim that smoking is the be and end all of asthma related increases.  But there are some people with asthma that is triggered by smoking.  Just as there are dustmite, animal and chemical irritants.  You cannot sit there and tell me that smoking does not kill, nor effect other people if you are puffing away.  I drive a car - as responsibly as I can - in fact right now, I am looking into alternative transport (gig actually) because I accept that I am causing pollution to increase and I want to do something about it.
 
People who smoke can get on their high horse (oh how ironic) and make claims that its all about their freedoms and rights.  Fine - kill yourself how ever you want - but what about other peoples 'rights'?  Don't deny you dont effect them.  Don't try and cop out by blaming cars.  Just accept you are part of the problem and try and change it in whatever positive way you can.
 
We can discuss until blue in the face that smoking isnt as bad as *insert whatever here* - fact is it IS a contributing factor - no matter how small - to pollution, slavery, drugbarrons and global warming.  At least have the balls to 'fess up and try and do something about it instead of just complain and cry to mommy because your precious rights are being infringed.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 6:04:11 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

People who smoke can get on their high horse (oh how ironic) and make claims that its all about their freedoms and rights.  Fine - kill yourself how ever you want - but what about other peoples 'rights'?  Don't deny you dont effect them.  Don't try and cop out by blaming cars.  Just accept you are part of the problem and try and change it in whatever positive way you can.



Hell. I'm going to stop reading this thread. I hardly smoke but reading this thread is making me light up more just to be bloody minded.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 6:18:33 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
awwwwwww Mc
But didnt anyone tell you - CM is a smoke free zone?
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 7:19:04 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

awwwwwww Mc
But didnt anyone tell you - CM is a smoke free zone?
 
Peace and Rapture



Bloody hell, fuck a duck and shit a brick.. I chain smoke when I'm in CM..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 9:56:23 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		This thread makes me wheeze!!




_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 10:46:40 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
.....I don't believe for one moment this anti smoking is about health. It is about people having petty power over someone else.......


And of course the person blowing smoke into the other person's face is the real victim here...

quote:

....If it was really about health there is a lot of other things that would be above it on the list but people aren't really interested in them, they want point the finger at someone and feel good about themselves.


Riiiight...nobody has ever lifted a finger to do anything about reducing automobile emissions....and seat belts and airbags were never mandated because nobody gave a flip.... and thank goodness the pharmaceutical companies gave up on those silly remedies for polio and such...and that DDT scare went bust....because nobody really cares about anything except picking on poor widdle smokers...

Starting to sound a little shrill there MC.


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/20/2006 10:49:13 AM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 11:10:21 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I wasn't even going to talk about being a previous smoker... but it's a damned if you do and damned if you don’t.  Say you are an ex- smoker and you get the "oh you evangelical reformists!... Say you NEVER smoked, and then you get the "well, you don't know what it's like!"  So, friggy-diggy on that admonishment  NEXT:

<<What's next ? Can I make my employer get rid of the shop cats because I am allegic to cats ? Now this is not recreation, this is my job, and it's for real. Now there's one for you, what if there are cats in a restaurant and you want to go there. Do they need to wash the walls down with bleach and promise never to bring cats there again ? Let me tell you, if someone has a severe allergy it is way more uncomfortable than cigarette smoke. I used to have it bad. (There were times I couldn't see ) ??>>

But what if the shop owner is ADDICTED to cats?? What if he NEEDS his cats for his spiritual and mental well-being? What if the poor man tried to go without cats and just went insane?? MY GOD! The INHUMANITY of your scenario! Have you no heart?  What would the world BE without PUSSY??!!

(Throwing my hands up in utter dismay as I turn an walk from the shop)






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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/20/2006 12:13:31 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Wild;

That does not refute the statement.

Tell me how YOU KNOW that second hand smoke is not the real red herring. Please support your statement with some sort of reference or something. Please prove all medical histories cited etc., or you accept the possibility that you are wr...wr...wr...wr...

You KNOW.

T


I can't imagine you understood my post.  I said that the issue of car emissions was a red herring.  Additionally if you saw my post you would have noticed that I posted a link from a report from the United States Surgeon general that outlined quite clearly the health problems stemming from second hand smoke.  Please feel free to post substantive research thats of the same level of the Surgeon General.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 100
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