RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico

RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:32:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Lolololol. From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver. The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250. Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost. ....WHERE.... ...Did they purchase either gun from? In order for criminals to get their guns illegally, the guns had to have been purchased....legally. Oh are you going to tell me that guns go from manufacturer straight to the criminal underworld? Or freight trains full of guns stolen each week? I think someone would notice in either case, dont you? Isn't it important to analysis where the guns are acquired? How often? That helps in figuring out ways to seal the cracks up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_trafficking How about? How are the arms going from....legal....to....illegal? Seems that when there are background checks, those arms do not follow quite as easily or quickly. Since a background check does create a 'point of origin' on the sale. That helps law enforcement find the corrupted and unscrupulous types whom look the other way for profit while putting their fellow US Citizens at greater levels of risk. An you want to defend these people?

joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Lolololol. From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver. The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250. Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost. ....WHERE.... ...Did they purchase either gun from? In order for criminals to get their guns illegally, the guns had to have been purchased....legally. Oh are you going to tell me that guns go from manufacturer straight to the criminal underworld? Or freight trains full of guns stolen each week? I think someone would notice in either case, dont you? Isn't it important to analysis where the guns are acquired? How often? That helps in figuring out ways to seal the cracks up. A lot of them got there curtesy of Obama and Holder. Every time this administration looks into something like this they write the report before they start the study so the researchers will know what to find. Prove it. From an unbiased source of journalism.

Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether But then, you said the GAO's assumptions, data, and conclusions are all wrong. Prove it. With unbiased journalism. Your 'studies' originate from conservative think tanks that are notorious for not showing facts unless it 'supports the cause!'. Newsflash: If you consider Wikileaks a "conservative think tank" there's no news source you will accept. As usual. Still waiting on your explanation of how this administration thinks the American public shouldn't have guns - and yet the Mexican Cartel should. Going to answer that anytime soon?

ifmaz -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 6:23:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether ... What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm. Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too.... ... California has very strict firearm laws yet it's among the top 3 sources of illegally trafficked firearms, with 19% traced back. Texas has 41% and Arizona, with its very permissive firearm laws, apparently only had a mere 15%. Per the left-wing Brady Campaign, California's firearm laws receive an A- while Arizona's (and Texas') receive an F. Guns & Ammo ranked Arizona as the best state for firearm owners while California comes in at #46 and Texas ranked #15. Yet even with strict firearm laws, magazine size limits and so forth, more firearms came from California than Arizona. How do you explain this as you hold the firearm laws, and not other factors, accountable? Perhaps criminals don't care about laws. Or perhaps their California source was a member of government?

Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 10:17:41 PM)
quote: quote: administratration looks into something like this they write the report before they start the study so the researchers will know what to find. Prove it. From an unbiased source of journalism. Oh? Will a report from the office of the inspector general do? On November 1, 2011, Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer admitted in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism that he knew the statement in the February 4th letter to Senator Grassley was absolutely false The Feb. 4 letter from Eric Holder asserted “ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally” Correspondence that has been produced in response to Freedom of Information Act requests makes clear that the Criminal Division reviewed the February 4 letter multiple times before it was sent to Senator Grassley. Documents produced by the Justice Department show that in addition to Mr. Breuer, his Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein, leadership within the Gang Unit of the department’s Criminal Division, and various Gang Unit prosecutors were also aware that guns had been walked. Documents proved that Holder had known of gunwalking for more than a year, at that point. Holder's deputy - E-mails sent from Jason Weinstein’s account played a part in exposing Fast and Furious. For example, he sent a series of e-mails in 2010 to a colleague 21 regarding the Operation in which he explicitly referred to it as a gun running operation, writing, “Do you think we should try to have Lanny [Breuer, a fellow DOJ employee] participate in press when Fast and Furious is unsealed? Holder claimed to have no knowledge of Fast and Furious until Agent Terry's death - However, documents were discovered showing that Holder had knowledge of Fast and Furious, even by that name, in the summer of 2010 via a weekly memorandum to Holder from the National Drug Intelligence Center (Walther, 2010). https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2012/s1209.pdf So the Attorney General - the guy charged with prosecuting the law - was proven to have knowing lied on several counts. a). He knew guns were walking. b). Knowledge of the program was widespread in the department, contrary to his assertion. c). He knew of it more than a year before his sworn testimony. By the way - president Obama also lied - when he said "“As you know, my attorney general has made clear he certainly would not have ordered gun running to pass through into Mexico” A lie - because the attorney general DID run guns into mexico. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Still waiting on your explanation on why your Obama administration wants to take guns out of the hands of Americans and yet putting guns into the hands of the Mexican Cartel, with no effort to trace them - was a good idea.

DominantWrestler -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 8:18:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Still waiting on your explanation of how this administration thinks the American public shouldn't have guns - and yet the Mexican Cartel should. Going to answer that anytime soon? Where did you get that from? Going to answer that anytime soon?

BamaD -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 9:03:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Still waiting on your explanation of how this administration thinks the American public shouldn't have guns - and yet the Mexican Cartel should. Going to answer that anytime soon? Where did you get that from? Going to answer that anytime soon? Fast and Furious forced legitimate dealers to provide guns to......the cartels.

mnottertail -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 11:23:22 AM)
nope, no more than they forced you to lie like that.

Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 1:15:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nope, no more than they forced you to lie like that. Once again you are factless. There is tv footage where multiple gun dealers were not going to sell the guns; the BATF forced the gun seller to sell the gun. But the gun seller was pretty savvy - he forced the department to put it in writing. When Agent Terry was killed, the BATF tried to pin blame on the guy, saying he was selling guns to the cartels illegally - and he went public and said "oh hell no no no - here are signed letters from your agents FORCING me to do so.". Needless to say, once that aired on national TV the feds backed off REAL fast. Not only that but in at least three instances federal agents bought the guns and delivered them to the cartels directly. Creative Dominant - as for where I got his - several posts up there is a citation to the OIG report, where it is confirmed that the fed government walked 2000 guns to the mexican cartels. In a previous post I talk about joethers ridiculous comparison to operation wide receiver - where even he said - yeah.. fast and furious was ridiculous.

mnottertail -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 1:23:19 PM)
Once again you are toiletlicking. And lying to boot. Show me the film, and there an ATF card and an ATF guy forcing a FFL to sell a gun, on video. They forced nothing lying propagandist. Since that is big, and went on TV, you should find full clip after full clip of it. I wait the materialization of your lying horseshit. Nobody is forcing you to be a fucking lying cretin now, its on you. You just want to help the other lying nutsuckers, but you are going to be stupid again.

BamaD -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 1:39:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nope, no more than they forced you to lie like that. Once again you are factless. There is tv footage where multiple gun dealers were not going to sell the guns; the BATF forced the gun seller to sell the gun. But the gun seller was pretty savvy - he forced the department to put it in writing. When Agent Terry was killed, the BATF tried to pin blame on the guy, saying he was selling guns to the cartels illegally - and he went public and said "oh hell no no no - here are signed letters from your agents FORCING me to do so.". Needless to say, once that aired on national TV the feds backed off REAL fast. Not only that but in at least three instances federal agents bought the guns and delivered them to the cartels directly. Creative Dominant - as for where I got his - several posts up there is a citation to the OIG report, where it is confirmed that the fed government walked 2000 guns to the mexican cartels. In a previous post I talk about joethers ridiculous comparison to operation wide receiver - where even he said - yeah.. fast and furious was ridiculous. Thank you for the more detailed account of how they did it. Doesn't it seem strange that a person who claims to have a ffl and makes a large portion of their living from selling firearms always sides with the gun grabbers?

mnottertail -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 2:46:23 PM)
Doesnt it seem strange that you factless fucks, and you are factless fucks, are busy jacking your fucking dicks and slobbering bullshit without fact? Uh, you murdering pansies are all the same. Again, nobody was forced, there were a couple of the many that expressed misgivings, that is all. Doesnt it seem strange that a nutsucker is jacking his nutsucker asshole buddy over factlessness and his command of firearms in pizza delivery and sub-standard performance in the military? You are a RIF.

ifmaz -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 6:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Doesnt it seem strange that you factless fucks, and you are factless fucks, are busy jacking your fucking dicks and slobbering bullshit without fact? Uh, you murdering pansies are all the same. Again, nobody was forced, there were a couple of the many that expressed misgivings, that is all. Doesnt it seem strange that a nutsucker is jacking his nutsucker asshole buddy over factlessness and his command of firearms in pizza delivery and sub-standard performance in the military? You are a RIF. Your profanity-filled, ad-hominem argument has convinced me!

joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 10:55:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Still waiting on your explanation on why your Obama administration wants to take guns out of the hands of Americans and yet putting guns into the hands of the Mexican Cartel, with no effort to trace them - was a good idea. This is a silly question.... If the Obama Administration wanted to take guns out of American's hands, why has there been no action taken in nearly eight years? A background check determines if someone should have a gun. It does not decided if someone whom already has a gun should keep it. Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? Yes, Fast and Furious and the operation before it, Wide Receiver were not really well thought out or executed. Both tried to find how the firearms fell into the wrong hands from the buyer's perspective, rather than the sellers. Why couldn't they just aim for the sellers? A pile of 4th amendment problems, that's why! Yet for those guns to be handed to the buyer, what had to have taken place? A seller willing to look the other way. That is what undermines the 2nd amendment (or one of several ways). When there is resistance for background checks from gun folks; the liberals assume those gun nuts are simply unscrupulous people. Hence all the mockery of 'honest and law abiding' folks with guns. Yet, as this thread shows, those guns were indeed traced. 41% of those identified came from Texas. That shows Texas has a real firearm problem. Not to mention a credibility problem. Most Texans are good people. Unfortunately they get lumped in with the minority whom are dishonest characters. So we enact laws that create a burden on the good people, while hoping the law makes it hard or impossible on the dishonest types. Its a trust issue.

joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/14/2016 10:58:19 PM)
....

Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/15/2016 12:03:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Still waiting on your explanation on why your Obama administration wants to take guns out of the hands of Americans and yet putting guns into the hands of the Mexican Cartel, with no effort to trace them - was a good idea. This is a silly question.... If the Obama Administration wanted to take guns out of American's hands, why has there been no action taken in nearly eight years? Its not a question of if the obama administration wanted to take guns out of Americans hands: quote: And instead of thinking about how to solve the problem, this has become one of our most polarized, partisan debates -- despite the fact that there’s a general consensus in America about what needs to be done. That’s part of the reason why, on Thursday, I’m going to hold a town hall meeting in Virginia on gun violence. Because my goal here is to bring good people on both sides of this issue together for an open discussion. I’m not on the ballot again. I’m not looking to score some points. I think we can disagree without impugning other people’s motives or without being disagreeable. We don't need to be talking past one another. But we do have to feel a sense of urgency about it. In Dr. King’s words, we need to feel the “fierce urgency of now.” Because people are dying. And the constant excuses for inaction no longer do, no longer suffice. That’s why we’re here today. Not to debate the last mass shooting, but to do something to try to prevent the next one. Just like its not a question did Obama's administration walk 2000+ guns to the Mexican drug cartels. The question is why does the president think its ok to give guns to mexican criminals - and make them harder to get for americans. Still waiting on your answer. quote: Yes, Fast and Furious and the operation before it, Wide Receiver were not really well thought out or executed. Back to lying again, eh? 1. Unlike operation Wide Receiver, the Obama Administration made no attempt to trace firearms given to the drug cartels, unlike Wide Receiver. 2. More than 2000 guns were sold to Mexican cartels members under Fast & Furious. Zero arrests of gang members were made. Unlike Operation Wider receiver - where 400 guns sales were made, resulting in 1440 arrests. 3. The Mexican government participated in operation Wide Reciever. It was not even made aware of F&F. 4. The ATF agent in charge under F & F went directly to congress to act as a whistle blower. 5. Eric Holder was held in contempt of congress for failure to release documents to congress for F&F. Wasn't that the first time a sitting attorney general was found in contempt? 6. Fast and Furious resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexican citizens; the guns have never been recovered, and in fact are still being used to perpetuate murders. In fact, many of the guns were passed to the cartel with identifying marks removed. 7. F&F resulted in the death of a US border patrol agent. quote: Both tried to find how the firearms fell into the wrong hands from the buyer's perspective, No, its established testimony that no effort was made to trace the guns; no efforts were made at indictments prior to F&F being exposed. No convictions ever occurred. No, what this thread shows is you're a liar. While some effort were made to track seized guns - the were no effort to track F&F guns that the OA let walk freely into mexico. And a good number of the f&F guns had identifying marks removed. Think about that for a minute. You say the point of F&F was to track gun sales. But the only way to do that is via identifying marks. Which were removed. If identifying marks were removed - do you think maybe that proves the BATF didn't want them traced? Now why would that be?? Why exactly would the BATF give untraceable guns to the Mexican drug cartels?

bounty44 -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/15/2016 4:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Your 'studies' originate from conservative think tanks that are notorious for not showing facts unless it 'supports the cause!' the very definition of "bias"---so itd be absolutely wonderful, since they are so notorious at this practice, if you could provide a few examples? since you seem to value "college education" so much---surely you know that such an accusation without support should not, would not stand.

DominantWrestler -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/15/2016 4:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: joether This is a silly question.... If the Obama Administration wanted to take guns out of American's hands, why has there been no action taken in nearly eight years? Its not a question of if the obama administration wanted to take guns out of Americans hands: quote: And instead of thinking about how to solve the problem, this has become one of our most polarized, partisan debates -- despite the fact that there’s a general consensus in America about what needs to be done. That’s part of the reason why, on Thursday, I’m going to hold a town hall meeting in Virginia on gun violence. Because my goal here is to bring good people on both sides of this issue together for an open discussion. I’m not on the ballot again. I’m not looking to score some points. I think we can disagree without impugning other people’s motives or without being disagreeable. We don't need to be talking past one another. But we do have to feel a sense of urgency about it. In Dr. King’s words, we need to feel the “fierce urgency of now.” Because people are dying. And the constant excuses for inaction no longer do, no longer suffice. That’s why we’re here today. Not to debate the last mass shooting, but to do something to try to prevent the next one. And instead of thinking about how to solve the problem, this has become one of our most polarized, partisan debates...Because my goal here is to bring good people on both sides of this issue together for an open discussion... I think we can disagree without impugning other people's motives or without being disagreeable. We don't need to be talking past one another... Because people are dying. And the constant excuses for inaction no longer do. Have you heard? Millions of Americans will have their guns seized by gnomes over the weekend. I think the section of the quote I pulled out of the quote you posted fido should be sufficient. You know they already take guns from the mentally ill. Oh no, now no one can get a gun?!? Requiring a background check will only stop those selling guns illegally. F & F was a fuck up, doesn't mean their climbing in your windows, or snatching your guns up. But I know what you will do. Hide your kids, hide your wife hide your guns because the third term soon to be dictator for life Islamic foreign nazi is going to be taking all your guns. You guys are delusional and paranoid in an extreme way. Jesus, if your that paranoid about the federal government why aren't you all over bush, Cheney and the Saudi's for destroying the Middle East? Oh wait, because fox didn't say so

mnottertail -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/15/2016 8:23:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Doesnt it seem strange that you factless fucks, and you are factless fucks, are busy jacking your fucking dicks and slobbering bullshit without fact? Uh, you murdering pansies are all the same. Again, nobody was forced, there were a couple of the many that expressed misgivings, that is all. Doesnt it seem strange that a nutsucker is jacking his nutsucker asshole buddy over factlessness and his command of firearms in pizza delivery and sub-standard performance in the military? You are a RIF. Your profanity-filled, ad-hominem argument has convinced me! Great. Glad to help. But it is not an argument, I am providing you no reasons to believe the gravamen of my view. You are innocent in the matter.

Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/15/2016 10:46:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: joether This is a silly question.... If the Obama Administration wanted to take guns out of American's hands, why has there been no action taken in nearly eight years? Its not a question of if the obama administration wanted to take guns out of Americans hands: quote: And instead of thinking about how to solve the problem, this has become one of our most polarized, partisan debates -- despite the fact that there’s a general consensus in America about what needs to be done. That’s part of the reason why, on Thursday, I’m going to hold a town hall meeting in Virginia on gun violence. Because my goal here is to bring good people on both sides of this issue together for an open discussion. I’m not on the ballot again. I’m not looking to score some points. I think we can disagree without impugning other people’s motives or without being disagreeable. We don't need to be talking past one another. But we do have to feel a sense of urgency about it. In Dr. King’s words, we need to feel the “fierce urgency of now.” Because people are dying. And the constant excuses for inaction no longer do, no longer suffice. That’s why we’re here today. Not to debate the last mass shooting, but to do something to try to prevent the next one. And instead of thinking about how to solve the problem, this has become one of our most polarized, partisan debates...Because my goal here is to bring good people on both sides of this issue together for an open discussion... I think we can disagree without impugning other people's motives or without being disagreeable. We don't need to be talking past one another... Because people are dying. And the constant excuses for inaction no longer do. Have you heard? Millions of Americans will have their guns seized by gnomes over the weekend. I think the section of the quote I pulled out of the quote you posted fido should be sufficient. You know they already take guns from the mentally ill. Oh no, now no one can get a gun?!? Requiring a background check will only stop those selling guns illegally. F & F was a fuck up, doesn't mean their climbing in your windows, or snatching your guns up. But I know what you will do. Hide your kids, hide your wife hide your guns because the third term soon to be dictator for life Islamic foreign nazi is going to be taking all your guns. You guys are delusional and paranoid in an extreme way. Jesus, if your that paranoid about the federal government why aren't you all over bush, Cheney and the Saudi's for destroying the Middle East? Oh wait, because fox didn't say so quote: I think we can disagree without impugning other people's motives or without being disagreeable And yet in the same breath you say... quote: But I know what you will do. Hide your kids, hide your wife hide your guns because the third term soon to be dictator for life Islamic foreign nazi is going to be taking all your guns. Hypocrite. I didnt say the obama administration was able to seize guns. I don't think black op helicopters are coming to take guns. But as for what they want - well lets see - chicago - democrat forever, gun ban. Washington - gun ban that got overturned by supreme court. Gun ban on schools. Terrorist attacks - lets ban guns. Dow drops 15% - lets ban guns. Feckless middle east foreign policy - lets ban guns. Hillary is corrupt- lets ban guns. Budget deficit - lets ban guns Illegal dream act - lets let the immigrants in - and ban guns. How about this - we don't want to ban guns. Shut the fuck up already - you're just driiving the wedge deeper. You want to ban guns - pass a damn amendment and shut up already. You want to fix a problem - fine - fix the problem that liberals obsess about gun ownership - because otherwise I don't see a gun problem. I see crime problem, I see a mental health problem, I see an overweening government problem.

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