quote:

ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman
We all know BDSM is shrouded in lot of stereotypes, but recently I felt even those come in layers. For those few channels that are bold enough to say it is "normal", I still notice a startling tendency. If you query for "a caring dominant", it almost always shows up / is envisioned as a man. This might partly be due to the fact that globally (from attested surveys) men confess more to be in a dominant role than women... but isn't it amazing that nobody seems to hold the perspective that a female dominant can also be caring?

If you were to do an informal poll of sorts, there is a much greater percentage of female submissives and (oftentimes bisexual) female switches seeking (strict but kind) DaddyDoms; you do not readily find a comparable F/m relationship foundation, and MommyDommes are rather scarce. As BlueRoses1111 posted, this type of dynamic feels creepy to many women for them to have with their primary partner. Probably about 99% of us are sexually turned off by it, whereas this is a HUGE turn-on in many M/f relationships.

Speaking of stereotypes and misperceptions, the most common I've run into are - in no particular order, and I'm not saying it doesn't apply to many of those involved in BDSM - that:

- BDSM is the same as D/s (which it isn't by a long shot)
- BDSM is the handmaiden of any D/s dynamic (which it isn't)
- S&M is ALWAYS part and parcel of BDSM (which it isn't)
- All Dominants have to be sadistic Tops, or else they aren't Dominant (which is untrue)
- All (sadistic) Tops are Dominants (which they aren't)
- In order to be a Dominant, you must be a sadistic Top (an utterly ridiculous misassumption); the subpart to which is, that All Dommes are sadistic, man-hating emasculating Bitches (thanks to FemDom porn); and that all submissive males are sniveling, weak-willed and pathetically worthless wastes of human space
- All bottoms are submissives (which they aren't), especially maso bottoms
- Fetishists, male fetishists in particular, are submissive despite the fact that they want to control how the entire fantasy script of their fetish objectification unfolds
- If a Top or a bottom ever "switches" T/b roles, then their inherent Dominance or submission is called into question (Pff-ft)
- Only a Master/slave-type of D/s dynamic is "real" D/s (Pffff-fft)
- A slave is unworthy of being treated or regarded as a marriageable partner
- Every unconventional practice is kink-worthy or a fetish which is off limits for peer-level judgment, just because YKINMK
- Tons more stoopit beliefs that have nothing to do with the responsible practice of BDSM or a loving D/s relationship dynamic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman
There seems to be rather negative stereotypes out there that female dominants are interested in humiliation, exploitation and cuckoldry, all of which come with connotations of acquiesced suffering for the submissive male in question.

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ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman
I would very strongly like to disagree but I don;t have too many personal data points of interactions to substantiate my statements. Whats going on? The media feeding us crap as always?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

Speaking of stereotypes and misperceptions, the most common I've run into are - in no particular order, and I'm not saying it doesn't apply to many of those involved in BDSM - that:

- All Dominants have to be sadistic Tops, or else they aren't Dominant (which is untrue)
- All (sadistic) Tops are Dominants (which they aren't)
- In order to be a Dominant, you must be a sadistic Top (an utterly ridiculous misassumption); the subpart to which is, that All Dommes are sadistic, man-hating emasculating Bitches (thanks to FemDom porn); and that all submissive males are sniveling, weak-willed and pathetically worthless wastes of human space
- A slave is unworthy of being treated or regarded as a marriageable partner

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

In some instances, with demand being so high, the professional role-playing Dominatrix has had to "fit" or conform to the FemDom porn model in order to build and maintain a viable client base -- if that is indeed how a young/new Domme starts out, or the direction she ends up going once she discovers that the majority of interactions with kink-obsessed males boils down to Use or Be Used.
This, in itself, is a contradiction of a *true* D/s authority dynamic because the client is the one who retains control of the purse strings, who pushes for HIS FemDom fantasy fulfillment.[/color]

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Here's the neat part. You mentioned three kinks in particular (humiliation, exploitation and cuckoldry) that are found more often in male bottoms/s-types than their female counterparts. Cuckolds (male) vastly outnumber those who crave to be a cuckquean (the female /s counterpart of that kink). Humiliation, especially about thing like physical attributes? The number of females who *want* to engage in the receiving end of that is pretty low.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Here's the neat part. You mentioned three kinks in particular (humiliation, exploitation and cuckoldry) that are found more often in male bottoms/s-types than their female counterparts. Cuckolds (male) vastly outnumber those who crave to be a cuckquean (the female /s counterpart of that kink). Humiliation, especially about thing like physical attributes? The number of females who *want* to engage in the receiving end of that is pretty low.

Allow me to question that for a moment and ask - is the number of of females who WANT to be on the giving side of that kink high either?

I feel like there are 2 forces at work here. On one hand, men are led to believe (thank you shitty FemDom porn) that to be a submissive they need to grovel on the ground, accept humiliation. Sometimes it is truly pathetic to see to what levels men agree to stoop inorder to believe that they are eligible to be a sub or slave. It does not need to be that way. They are unnecessarily giving away their dignity and vitality, IMHO.

On the other hand, as DreamLady points out, maybe women also dont want to be on the giving side to such kinks. Honestly, of all the women I have met and talked to (a little intimately) I have barely ever met a "size queen". Seriously, it does NOT matter, but women who want to be dominant are forced to comply with the "industry standards" of penic humiliation and cuckoldry.

Thoughts?

If I may, speaking from observation but having much less "scene" experience than LadyP does, and significantly less lifestyle BDSM community involvement.
There seems to be quite a disparity between male and female submissives, despite their commonalities, pertaining to more male-driven fetishes.
There is also a considerable gap in what (inexperienced) newbies think they want in their befuddled imaginings and what more seasoned lifestylers - often through trial and error - realistically expect (those who aren't still behind the on-line learning curve).

As for the giving side of cuckolding, yes there are Cuckoldresses to be found, sometimes intentional, sometimes not intentionally.
To put it another way, there are different levels of non-monogamy, either by choice, by opportunity, or by lack of choice and opportunity.
A Dominant woman may have a vanilla boyfriend or husband. She may end up either consensually or non-consensually cuckolding her primary partner by taking on a male sub or subs.
(The male sub will delude himself into believing that HE is the one being cuckolded, when he isn't -- not unless HE is his Mistress's primary partner. Again, part of the fantasy world he creates for himself.)

Let's move along, shall we, for everyone's sake.
Exploitation. I have seen Dominants of both genders exploit their s-types of both genders. Exploitation takes many forms. I believe you mean financial exploitation, but there are other resources than those consisting of monetary transactions.
Further, a maleDom taking his submissive's paycheck without investing a reasonable portion of it for her future security is as exploitative as any other form.

Moving along here, Humiliation. Many different levels of humiliation, as well as mental cruelty, mental torment and sexual torment.
The main issue is one of consent. I don't understand it myself, but finding a submissive who doesn't get off on some level of humiliation, degradation, and/or objectification is a rare find.
Females tend to favor depersonalization; more males favor outright dehumanization.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I started out feeling extremely uncomfortable as a Humiliatrix. If I hadn't set up a ton of ground rules and strictly (self-)enforced parameters to doing sexual humiliation with my husband of many years, I would have never gone there with a ten-foot pole. In that sense, I was being more of a service Top because it wasn't what I wanted. It wasn't until I found my last sub, who was not into any sort of humiliation & punishment dynamic, as well as not being masochistic either, that I realized that I could have a D/s relationship dynamic without these (to me) undesirable elements.

And no, I'm not a size queen, but neither do I have the slightest interest in SPH. Small penises - spare me the girth talk cuz stubbies don't hack it either - average-sized penises, unsightly penises, and monster cocks are all turn-offs. I don't see that as being shallow, no different than anything else that offends my sensibilities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman
Allow me to question that for a moment and ask - is the number of of females who WANT to be on the giving side of that kink high either?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady



- BDSM is the same as D/s (which it isn't by a long shot)

This part might clue some folks in with my little pet peeve about how BDSM does NOT flipping stand for Bondage, Discipline/Domination, submission/sadism and masochism.

quote:

- BDSM is the handmaiden of any D/s dynamic (which it isn't)

The problem with this is that it's more common. The *just* D/s folks get left out in the cold sometimes.

quote:

- S&M is ALWAYS part and parcel of BDSM (which it isn't)

Rope, anyone? (OK, technically, the S/m is a part of the acronym. )

quote:

- All Dominants have to be sadistic Tops, or else they aren't Dominant (which is untrue)
- All (sadistic) Tops are Dominants (which they aren't)

Most people don't know how to separate these. Something I also pin on porn.

quote:

- In order to be a Dominant, you must be a sadistic Top (an utterly ridiculous misassumption); the subpart to which is, that All Dommes are sadistic, man-hating emasculating Bitches (thanks to FemDom porn); and that all submissive males are sniveling, weak-willed and pathetically worthless wastes of human space

Not all male submissives are created equal, either. If a person is a Dominant who is also a top, they need the right kind of mix of submissive and bottom IF they are going to be monogamous in every sense of the word.

quote:

- All bottoms are submissives (which they aren't), especially maso bottoms

Again, correct, for the same reasons. But, there's a little more, especially when we're talking about males.

The maso knows that he has to compete. Why? Because you can find bottoms ANYWHERE. Knowing this, they have to kind of puff up their resume. Oh, gosh, they are either the biggest pain slut or they are oh, so, submissive.

quote:

- Fetishists, male fetishists in particular, are submissive despite the fact that they want to control how the entire fantasy script of their fetish objectification unfolds

Research says that males are more likely to be fetishists than females. I'll see if I can find the article(s) on this.

quote:

- If a Top or a bottom ever "switches" T/b roles, then their inherent Dominance or submission is called into question (Pff-ft)

I still see this, a LOT. It's a lot better than it was ten years ago because of the way things have changed but it's not gone.

quote:

- Only a Master/slave-type of D/s dynamic is "real" D/s (Pffff-fft)

In certain sub-cultures, there is no D/s. It's not so much that they don't recognize other people's relationships as real.

quote:

- A slave is unworthy of being treated or regarded as a marriageable partner

This could be it's own thread.

quote:

- Every unconventional practice is kink-worthy or a fetish which is off limits for peer-level judgment, just because YKINMK

I'm still waiting for the day that somebody tells me their "kink" is to drop cement blocks off of a three story building onto the head of someone below. It's gonna be fun.

quote:

- Tons more stoopit beliefs that have nothing to do with the responsible practice of BDSM or a loving D/s relationship dynamic. [8|

This one, I won't give you. The false assumption that love is automatically a part of a D/s dynamic doesn't work. I think it's more fair to say that love is a requirement for some.

quote:

The short answer is, We aren't as a whole or didn't start out that way intentionally. If the truth be known, it's a *guy* thang, which many inexperienced and/or insecure Dommes have bought into.

In some instances, with demand being so high, the professional role-playing Dominatrix has had to "fit" or conform to the FemDom porn model in order to build and maintain a viable client base -- if that is indeed how a young/new Domme starts out, or the direction she ends up going once she discovers that the majority of interactions with kink-obsessed males boils down to Use or Be Used.

I'm not a prodomme, never been a prodomme, but even I know good business sense. Find the niche market. Do you know who's making the most money right now? Mommies and "babysitters" for ABDLs. Pros who willing to play dress up with clients who want to be feminized make good money. (A part of this is understandable because of the cost involved.) The harder it is to find, the more clients pay.

quote:

This, in itself, is a contradiction of a *true* D/s authority dynamic because the client is the one who retains control of the purse strings, who pushes for HIS FemDom fantasy fulfillment.

Depends on the pro.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to dreamlady)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- BDSM is the same as D/s (which it isn't by a long shot)

This part might clue some folks in with my little pet peeve about how BDSM does NOT flipping stand for Bondage, Discipline/Domination, submission/sadism and masochism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- BDSM is the handmaiden of any D/s dynamic (which it isn't)

The problem with this is that it's more common. The *just* D/s folks get left out in the cold sometimes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- S&M is ALWAYS part and parcel of BDSM (which it isn't)

Rope, anyone? (OK, technically, the S/m is a part of the acronym. )

Well, the "B" in Bondage kinda covers that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady [parsed]
- All Dominants have to be sadistic Tops, or else they aren't Dominant (which is untrue)
- All (sadistic) Tops are Dominants (which they aren't)
- In order to be a Dominant, you must be a sadistic Top (an utterly ridiculous misassumption);

Most people don't know how to separate these. Something I also pin on porn.

You might appreciate this. I once had an idiot tell me that I couldn't be a Domme because I wasn't into needles.
A "slave," no less. This is one of those fill-in-blank type things we all hear from time to time coming from both sides of the kneel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Not all male submissives are created equal, either.

You can say that again. Thankfully, there are a few rare gems scattered about.
Like you, I pin the "lowly worm" stereotype on porn. Add to that "pathetic slave dog" and so on.
But there are other people, most notably male supremacists, who are vocal in their utter disdain of submissive males as *freaks* of nature. You know the ones, the same maleDoms who swear that Dominant women don't exist.
(The ones who are probably scared shitless of their own secretively submissive urges.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- All bottoms are submissives (which they aren't), especially maso bottoms

Again, correct, for the same reasons. But, there's a little more, especially when we're talking about males.

The maso knows that he has to compete. Why? Because you can find bottoms ANYWHERE. Knowing this, they have to kind of puff up their resume. Oh, gosh, they are either the biggest pain slut or they are oh, so, submissive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- If a Top or a bottom ever "switches" T/b roles, then their inherent Dominance or submission is called into question (Pff-ft)

I still see this, a LOT. It's a lot better than it was ten years ago because of the way things have changed but it's not gone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- Tons more stoopit beliefs that have nothing to do with the responsible practice of BDSM or a loving D/s relationship dynamic. [8|

This one, I won't give you. The false assumption that love is automatically a part of a D/s dynamic doesn't work. I think it's more fair to say that love is a requirement for some.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I'm not a prodomme, never been a prodomme, but even I know good business sense. Find the niche market. Do you know who's making the most money right now? Mommies and "babysitters" for ABDLs. Pros who willing to play dress up with clients who want to be feminized make good money. (A part of this is understandable because of the cost involved.) The harder it is to find, the more clients pay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
- This, in itself, is a contradiction of a *true* D/s authority dynamic because the client is the one who retains control of the purse strings, who pushes for HIS FemDom fantasy fulfillment.

Depends on the pro.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Initially when I heard that, it didn't bother me, back when I didn't know or understand the difference. Then it got on my nerves, but perhaps not for the same reasons (?)
Okay, I'll say it. I'm a D/s snob, and I don't think I hide it very well.

I prefer the term "elitist". When they call you that, an "elder," or most of those "E" words, it tells you more about them than you.

quote:

However, in my defense, it's because I don't see BDSM as THE pathway (not saying you do, but there are those who don't see or know the difference) into attaining a state of D/s power & authority exchange.

You forget, or maybe you don't know, I was a Dominant that had no interest in topping there for a good while. I really do know your side of the fence.

quote:

I've had D/s to one extent or another in just about every close vanilla relationship, including platonic friendships, long before I engaged in any BDSM activities.
(With friendships, though, there was no sex - well, maybe a couple of isolated flukes occurred - and there wasn't ownership, except for the one time I had a boy as a non-sexual pet for a couple of years. He was my boy, and everybody knew it and knew not to mess with him or they'd have me to deal with.)

Here is where we part ways. I don't do "social dominance". Look at that moron who is chest thumping on the boards this past week. Do you really see that fool as your peer?

quote:

Or that D/s is the handmaiden of BDSM, whichever. . . . I'm sure you run into this left and right. Female Tops are in great demand (all FemDoms are, but Topping is frequently presumed to be part and parcel with Domination). So are skilled (male) Spanking Tops who know what the hell they're doing (like DkS) instead of clumsily wailing away.

The greater the skill, the higher the demand. Just how it goes.

quote:

There are many more bottoms seeking out Tops than there are submissives who are worthy of being owned (or ready for it), as well as Dominants who are worthy of taking on the responsibility of an ownership commitment.

Of course, of course. But "worthiness" goes on both sides of the slash.

quote:

Well, the "B" in Bondage kinda covers that.

Allow me to assure you, the sadism is alive and well, too.

quote:

You might appreciate this. I once had an idiot tell me that I couldn't be a Domme because I wasn't into needles.
A "slave," no less. This is one of those fill-in-blank type things we all hear from time to time coming from both sides of the kneel.

Oh, I absolutely appreciate it. Damn near any male will try to tell you that you aren't a Dominant if you aren't doing whatever it is that they want you to do. The play they want, the sex they want, the affection they want. When they have to reach for that "you're not a Dominant" card? They are just scraping the bottom of the barrel for their own insecurities.

quote:

You can say that again. Thankfully, there are a few rare gems scattered about.

We see it every day. Most females do.

quote:

Like you, I pin the "lowly worm" stereotype on porn. Add to that "pathetic slave dog" and so on.

I can promise you. If I ever decided to make porn, I'd make the stuff that sells.

quote:

But there are other people, most notably male supremacists, who are vocal in their utter disdain of submissive males as *freaks* of nature. You know the ones, the same maleDoms who swear that Dominant women don't exist.
(The ones who are probably scared shitless of their own secretively submissive urges.)

I won't pin anything about "supremacy" that doesn't go for both genders. To date, NOBODY has convinced me of any form of supremacy based on gender, race, sexuality, or any other thing that people have "lucked into" being born with.

quote:

They get a rude awakening when they try to pull that stuff on me when it backfires big time, and I have to remind them that I'm not a sadist and have no need for a masochistic sub. Lol

Well, let me share a slice of my (and other sadist women's world) with you.

It happens all of the time. You know, I'm actually cool with the folks who are up front and say they like sensations and aren't much into pain. I can have fun with them. Give me a two on the pain scale that tells the truth about it? We can have a great time! Tell me you're an eight and you turn out to be a three? I consider that an hour of my life I'll never get back.

quote:

I wasn't aware of this 10 years ago, not until maybe 5 when some Domme friends invited me to join them in a spatula-slapping party (which I declined, not my cup of tea), then a few other Dominants admitted to getting flogged every so often (to alleviate back pain). And then lo and behold, a male sub friend of mine told me about service Topping a couple of his galpals in his group of friends at a fetish party when there was a shortage of male Tops available for impact play. After doing this a couple of times, he told me he considered himself a sadistic sub, but not a switch by a longshot. (Later, I ran across a gay couple -- a masochistic Dom whose partner was a sadistic sub.)

I don't enjoy bottoming... At all. I've done it and it just doesn't suit me. It's like asking a zero or six on the Kinsey scale to get it on with the wrong gender. (Had to do it. I pissed somebody off recently by saying not everybody is a little switch and not everybody is a little bit bi.)

quote:

For the sake of clarity, I specifically meant the loving kind of D/s relationship, as opposed to the kind where feelings of love don't enter the picture. Sex might, service typically does in one form or another, but love may or may not (just like a caring friendship may or may not develop), so that's how I meant it. I specifically meant that there are those who believe that D/s-M/s precludes having an intimate loving relationship. So the distinction is between BDSM (where it wouldn't be expected in and of itself) and the various degrees of D/s ownership. A poly Dom once said that he could never consider one of his slaves as partnership material, nor have his primary partner ever be a slave of his. He felt he had to keep up a wall in order to be an effective Master.

How much do you know about the leather community? This is one of the things that have changed over the years.

Somebody being "in service" to another or a house, didn't necessarily equate love. They weren't always partnership material. People used to hate it when I would use the parallel of employer/employee symbolism. (Again, whole other thread.)

quote:

Me neither, but it doesn't surprise me. I have strong maternal instincts as a protector, teacher and guide, but there are some boundaries I could not and will not cross, don't want to, can't and won't go there.

I have this thing about not wanting to be bought. The minute someone wants to "buy" my affections, it makes my skin crawl. I'd be horrid as a findomme.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to dreamlady)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
ladypact should be ignored

but let us examines urchins words in a manner known as verbatim
Seriously? I've played with more people from this site than you've ever met.

who how many and why are you still here shpould you not be shagging them into next week