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What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 11:37:36 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

This could be the first election in my lifetime, in which there could be 2 candidates that represent "extremes".
Many American people are sick and tired of the way this country has been going the last 20-30 {or more} years,
and they will
be voting with their feet when we march to the election booths.

Trump vs. Sanders... I say bring it!
Funny thing is, many don't realize that these candadidates have at least 5-6 things in common.
First, they are BOTH angry!
I say right on, I have been pissed about politics for about 25 years, and I want someone angry to win.
😄
There are thousands of links on what these candidates have in common, feel free to look.
Here are 7:

1. They BOTH oppose the trans-pacific partnership trade deal.

2. They BOTH support maintaining or expanding current levels of social security.
Right On!!!!

3. They BOTH support upper income tax hikes.

4. They BOTH opposed the Iraq War.

5. They both have supported single-payer health care.
And

6. They both have flip flopped on gun control.

7. They both have interesting hair.

8. They both portray {rightly so} that most traditional politicians are bought and paid for by powerful monied interests.

There are other positions that they both hold similar views on, but there's no getting around the fact that Sanders and Trump have a lot in common.
I personally am sick of BOTH parties and since I don't have a viable alternative???
I say, bring it!
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 2/14/2016 11:42:36 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

Post #: 1

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 11:45:11 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

Sorry for double post- I'm on my I phone.

Anyway, I would like to see ways in which you find similarities between the candidates that cross the usual partisan bull for a change.
As I always say, both sides are sleeping with the devil most of the time.

< Message edited by Marini -- 2/14/2016 11:50:02 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 2

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 1:07:20 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

I've read that the key thing is neither Sanders nor Trump is a neoliberal. If true that alone makes both stick apart from the crowd by a long, long way.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 3

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 6:19:45 PM

Phydeaux

Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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Trump is hardly extreme. Cruz is right. Trump's largest issue is that he is attracting more moderate democrats & independents (20%) than conservative republicans (19%).

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 2/14/2016 6:41:56 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 4

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 6:52:33 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Trump is hardly extreme. Cruz is right. Trump's largest issue is that he is attracting more moderate democrats & independents (20%) than conservative republicans (19%).

The real simularity between them is not their stands on issues but they have tapped into the anger many people feel.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 5

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 9:58:38 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've read that the key thing is neither Sanders nor Trump is a neoliberal. If true that alone makes both stick apart from the crowd by a long, long way.

Good observation

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 6

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 10:01:38 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Trump is hardly extreme. Cruz is right. Trump's largest issue is that he is attracting more moderate democrats & independents (20%) than conservative republicans (19%).

The real simularity between them is not their stands on issues but they have tapped into the anger many people feel.

The world may be coming to an end.... I agree with you.
Many many people are angry!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 7

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/14/2016 11:15:00 PM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

Both have the same accent?

I realise when Sanders says "Huge", it sounds like Trump.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 8

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 12:02:50 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

The thing is that neither one of them are favored by the political parties. Neither one of them are bought and paid for by the same people as the other politicians. Not that they are squeaky clean, but they are not in the good graces of the real PTB.

T^T

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 9

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 4:52:04 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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Trump is attacking Saint George Bush and Sanders is attacking Saint Obama.

Both are attacking the faux pas of attacking of their own party Halo-ed one haha.

Although, again, I admire Trump guts to shoot down G.Bush in a 85% George Bush approval state, while Rubio was busy bootlicking.

I was reading some commentary about even the democrats would never dare to accuse G.Bush of intentionally going in and fabricating the weapons of mass destruction reason and there is Trump, saying aloud one of the biggest conspiracy theories.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/15/2016 4:54:53 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 10

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 6:42:32 AM

CodeOfSilence

Posts: 235
Status: offline

Trump is a light fascist and Sanders is a light socialist to keep it very simple.
But like someone else said, what they have in common is that they are as far from neo liberal policies as one can get probably get in American politics.

They also aren't interested in moral issues and refrain from discussing them leading them to be able to catch voters from the communitarian rightists such as the religious ones.
I think that Sanders could gain a crushing advantage if he out of the blue started calling for the adoption of morally conservative issues that progressives aren't interested in.

Let's say that Sanders started actively campaigning against gambling and increasing federal control over alcohol sales. I doubt any progressive "liberal" would switch over to Trump because of this but various Trump supporters might switch over to Sanders.
I also think that being more moderate on guns would be a strategically correct card to play, as again they would not switch to Trump but more people could switch from Trump to Sanders. Of course he has to beat Hillary first.

It's all about strategy at this point.
If Hillary is elected for the democratic ticket Trump could easily flipflop on a lot of social and economic issues, again precluding any conservative from supporting Hillary but Hillary supporters could more easily then switch to Trump.

The established candidates do not have the option to flip flop on some of the more important issues because of lobbyist interests. So Trump and Sanders have far more room for strategic maneuvering leading me to conclude that if either Trump or Sanders are elected and if they really want to win above all and have a solid team of advisors then I doubt they can lose. It only becomes interesting if both are elected for their party list.

And yes, Hillary is beating Trump in all sorts of polls but Trump hasn't even had time to really open his mouth up about her in any serious way yet. In a 1v1 race there are all sorts of positions he could attack.
An easy foreign policy point would be the possible conflict arising from future tension between Turkey and Russia. Hillary is beholden to the Saudis and the classical US foreign policy position in the middle east. Trump has room to act in support of Russia, proclaiming that they are fighting Daesh while the Turks fight the Kurds and thus assist Daesh.

He has the room to attack Hillary (and her husband) for repeatedly failing to bring about a working health care plan and having no alternatives to "Obama care" despite this supposedly being her main political drive since she was young.

He can drag union workers to his side by attacking mexican immigration from the perspective of wage dumping.
She can't respond because she is beholden to the Hispanic vote. The only option left for her would be a radical one in terms of giving Unions further rights to enforce blockades and equal pay for immigrants; I doubt her donors would allow her to go that far nor would she probably want to. Plus then Trump could really start dishing out "Oh and we thought Sanders was the socialist" card.

There are so many angles of attack possible he'd have to want to lose to actually lose.

< Message edited by CodeOfSilence -- 2/15/2016 6:47:26 AM >

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 11

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 8:39:58 AM

hot4bondage

Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline

Looking at the delegate count in New Hampshire, it seems like Hillary will beat Bernie no matter how many votes he gets. Looking at the comments from the DNC chairwoman, the system is working as intended. Might be a good time for progressives to revisit the alleged merits of redistribution?

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)

Post #: 12

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 9:46:42 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This could be the first election in my lifetime, in which there could be 2 candidates that represent "extremes".
Many American people are sick and tired of the way this country has been going the last 20-30 {or more} years,
and they will
be voting with their feet when we march to the election booths.

well,.. when someone says they will be "voting with their feet", to me (& most definitions) what that means is leaving, as in leaving the country for a country with similar political ideals to your own.. it doesnt mean voting for the same system/parties y'all have always voted for.. whatever they say these 2 politician puppets say they stand for will quickly melt down into something very different once elected (think Obamacare which was promised as something very different to the abomination it has actually become).. they have to "buy" their fellow corrupt politicians votes to get anything passed..

You say American voters are angry? then have a true bloody revolution (like the French had, head chopping and all) and get rid of your corrupt political system & those that control it (cuz it aint voters that are in charge).. going back to the voting booth in a 2 party system controlled by big corps/1%ers isnt showing your anger, its the definition of insanity (doing the same thing and expecting a different result).. All that will happen is y'all will have been fooled yet again.. but thats democracy for ya.. getting the govt y'all deserve (?)..
..just sayin'...

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 13

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 10:45:01 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

Well I meant voting with their feet and walking to the voting booths.

You already voted with your feet, and left Canada and moved to America.
If it's sooooo bad here, why are you here?
Must not be that bad, so why the talk of revolution?
Are you going to lead the charge in Canada?

There are many ways to invoke meaningful political and social changes.
Many many many ways.
So BACK to the topic, how are they similar?

Many people get angry when you mention what they have in common.
I had a family member almost go ballistic when I tried to mention this.
The times they are interesting.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 14

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 11:10:40 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence

Trump is a light fascist and Sanders is a light socialist to keep it very simple.
But like someone else said, what they have in common is that they are as far from neo liberal policies as one can get probably get in American politics.

They also aren't interested in moral issues and refrain from discussing them leading them to be able to catch voters from the communitarian rightists such as the religious ones.
I think that Sanders could gain a crushing advantage if he out of the blue started calling for the adoption of morally conservative issues that progressives aren't interested in.

Let's say that Sanders started actively campaigning against gambling and increasing federal control over alcohol sales. I doubt any progressive "liberal" would switch over to Trump because of this but various Trump supporters might switch over to Sanders.
I also think that being more moderate on guns would be a strategically correct card to play, as again they would not switch to Trump but more people could switch from Trump to Sanders. Of course he has to beat Hillary first.

It's all about strategy at this point.
If Hillary is elected for the democratic ticket Trump could easily flipflop on a lot of social and economic issues, again precluding any conservative from supporting Hillary but Hillary supporters could more easily then switch to Trump.

The established candidates do not have the option to flip flop on some of the more important issues because of lobbyist interests. So Trump and Sanders have far more room for strategic maneuvering leading me to conclude that if either Trump or Sanders are elected and if they really want to win above all and have a solid team of advisors then I doubt they can lose. It only becomes interesting if both are elected for their party list.

And yes, Hillary is beating Trump in all sorts of polls but Trump hasn't even had time to really open his mouth up about her in any serious way yet. In a 1v1 race there are all sorts of positions he could attack.
An easy foreign policy point would be the possible conflict arising from future tension between Turkey and Russia. Hillary is beholden to the Saudis and the classical US foreign policy position in the middle east. Trump has room to act in support of Russia, proclaiming that they are fighting Daesh while the Turks fight the Kurds and thus assist Daesh.

He has the room to attack Hillary (and her husband) for repeatedly failing to bring about a working health care plan and having no alternatives to "Obama care" despite this supposedly being her main political drive since she was young.

He can drag union workers to his side by attacking mexican immigration from the perspective of wage dumping.
She can't respond because she is beholden to the Hispanic vote. The only option left for her would be a radical one in terms of giving Unions further rights to enforce blockades and equal pay for immigrants; I doubt her donors would allow her to go that far nor would she probably want to. Plus then Trump could really start dishing out "Oh and we thought Sanders was the socialist" card.

There are so many angles of attack possible he'd have to want to lose to actually lose.

Interesting comments.
Light fascist vs. Light socialist!
It appears that neither of them are in bed with lobbyists or special interest groups {at least it's not blatantly obvious}.
I agree it's only interesting if both are elected for their political party.
If Hillary wins, and that is who this nation elects, I'm thinking we get the country we deserve.
Just as we "deserve" our current country.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)

Post #: 15

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 11:26:24 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

Looking at the delegate count in New Hampshire, it seems like Hillary will beat Bernie no matter how many votes he gets. Looking at the comments from the DNC chairwoman, the system is working as intended. Might be a good time for progressives to revisit the alleged merits of redistribution?

Which redistribution are you talking about. From the rich to the poor or from the poor to the rich ?

One can look at the great 'success' of Kansas. To cover big tax cuts for the rich, the govt. is reducing services and programs for the poor and education just for starters. Now that's my kind of redistribution.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to hot4bondage)

Post #: 16

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 3:19:44 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Trump is hardly extreme. Cruz is right. Trump's largest issue is that he is attracting more moderate democrats & independents (20%) than conservative republicans (19%).

It's all relative, Phydeaux. The Republican candidates generally look extreme from a European perspective but Trump most of all - which is an impressive achievement, considering his competitors amongst the GOP). He's also as mad as a mongoose.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 17

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 3:24:11 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Trump is hardly extreme. Cruz is right. Trump's largest issue is that he is attracting more moderate democrats & independents (20%) than conservative republicans (19%).

Lmfao........ to quote John McEnroe "You cannot be serious ?"

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 18

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 3:27:27 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Well I meant voting with their feet and walking to the voting booths.

You already voted with your feet, and left Canada and moved to America.
If it's sooooo bad here, why are you here?
Must not be that bad, so why the talk of revolution?
Are you going to lead the charge in Canada?

There are many ways to invoke meaningful political and social changes.
Many many many ways.
So BACK to the topic, how are they similar?

Many people get angry when you mention what they have in common.
I had a family member almost go ballistic when I tried to mention this.
The times they are interesting.

I have said several times before that the US was not a final destination for me.. and if i had known before coming here what i know now, I wouldnt have come here at all.. Btw, Canada is nothing like the US, even tho certain things there have had US influence, Canadian laws are simply more reasonable/sane (forfeiture laws, drug laws as examples) & its a different culture.. I would not want to be a black person or hispanic person living in the US.. they are treated like shite in this country by way too many Americans, by the govt, by laws, by police..

How are those 2 politicians similar??? they are both politicians that cant/should not be trusted..
You think the times are interesting??? Imo, if Hillary or Trump are the next Prez they will make the world a more dangerous place.. I expect your/American's high hopes for the next Prez will disappoint y'all..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 19

RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 2/15/2016 4:48:27 PM

CodeOfSilence

Posts: 235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence

Trump is a light fascist and Sanders is a light socialist to keep it very simple.
But like someone else said, what they have in common is that they are as far from neo liberal policies as one can get probably get in American politics.

They also aren't interested in moral issues and refrain from discussing them leading them to be able to catch voters from the communitarian rightists such as the religious ones.
I think that Sanders could gain a crushing advantage if he out of the blue started calling for the adoption of morally conservative issues that progressives aren't interested in.

Let's say that Sanders started actively campaigning against gambling and increasing federal control over alcohol sales. I doubt any progressive "liberal" would switch over to Trump because of this but various Trump supporters might switch over to Sanders.
I also think that being more moderate on guns would be a strategically correct card to play, as again they would not switch to Trump but more people could switch from Trump to Sanders. Of course he has to beat Hillary first.

It's all about strategy at this point.
If Hillary is elected for the democratic ticket Trump could easily flipflop on a lot of social and economic issues, again precluding any conservative from supporting Hillary but Hillary supporters could more easily then switch to Trump.

The established candidates do not have the option to flip flop on some of the more important issues because of lobbyist interests. So Trump and Sanders have far more room for strategic maneuvering leading me to conclude that if either Trump or Sanders are elected and if they really want to win above all and have a solid team of advisors then I doubt they can lose. It only becomes interesting if both are elected for their party list.

And yes, Hillary is beating Trump in all sorts of polls but Trump hasn't even had time to really open his mouth up about her in any serious way yet. In a 1v1 race there are all sorts of positions he could attack.
An easy foreign policy point would be the possible conflict arising from future tension between Turkey and Russia. Hillary is beholden to the Saudis and the classical US foreign policy position in the middle east. Trump has room to act in support of Russia, proclaiming that they are fighting Daesh while the Turks fight the Kurds and thus assist Daesh.

He has the room to attack Hillary (and her husband) for repeatedly failing to bring about a working health care plan and having no alternatives to "Obama care" despite this supposedly being her main political drive since she was young.

He can drag union workers to his side by attacking mexican immigration from the perspective of wage dumping.
She can't respond because she is beholden to the Hispanic vote. The only option left for her would be a radical one in terms of giving Unions further rights to enforce blockades and equal pay for immigrants; I doubt her donors would allow her to go that far nor would she probably want to. Plus then Trump could really start dishing out "Oh and we thought Sanders was the socialist" card.

There are so many angles of attack possible he'd have to want to lose to actually lose.

Interesting comments.
Light fascist vs. Light socialist!
It appears that neither of them are in bed with lobbyists or special interest groups {at least it's not blatantly obvious}.
I agree it's only interesting if both are elected for their political party.
If Hillary wins, and that is who this nation elects, I'm thinking we get the country we deserve.
Just as we "deserve" our current country.

Well I don't think it will be a walk in the park what ever choice is made. America benefits from capitalism because it is its financial center and the dollar is basically as strong as it is because everyone uses it for various transactions. It's just that the benefit is not really seen because the wealth distribution has become so scewed.

But imagine if Trump wins and builds his wall, it won't solve much but one thing it might do is curb low skilled labor immigration. Now that's going to hard struggling agro commerce. Or if either of them doesn't sign the various Trans this or that agreements American corporations might lose on international competitiveness if other countries do sign them. Now if it goes so far to challenge the dollars stability then inflation might skyrocket because so much of your currency derives its value from the GDP of other nations and if they dump it and you can't consume domestic products then you're screwed.

And the thing is, America doesn't have the old industrial base it used to have to fall back on.
Challenging financial capitalism and its global trade is difficult if you've built your country around it.

Plus especially Sanders might not be willing to wage war to keep to force other nations in line which might further influence other nations to abandon the dollar or leave the frameworks of the global trade that America benefits from, they might for example raise tariffs or join new currency pacts. Less wars also means less income for your military industrial corporations...

< Message edited by CodeOfSilence -- 2/15/2016 4:57:58 PM >

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 20

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