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ORIGINAL: Gambler2015

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Muslim records show Jesut ben Miniram visited several of their holy sites. The dates tend to indicate all of these were the same man. (Yes, the historical Jesus was apparently seeking knowledge beyond the Torah)

Really? Keeping in mind that Muhammad lived (c. 570 – June 8, 632 CE or AD) and it was during the last 22 years of his life, beginning at age 40 in 610 that Muhammad reported revelations that he believed to be from God and he preached to the people, imploring them to abandon polytheism and to worship one God. While, according to many scholars, Jesus was crucified April 3rd of 33 AD. A difference of 537+ years.

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ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

No, in many ways you have become predators............as I said, your minds are made up, why bother to confuse you with facts ?

No, I'm not going to bother arguing this with you because doing so is like fighting fog..........It too has no substance and thus cannot be touched; it is formless and senseless but at the same time confuses the senses of others temporarily. Rather like attempting a discussion with Fido. So my part in this pointless exercise ends here.

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ORIGINAL: Gambler2015

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Muslim records show Jesut ben Miniram visited several of their holy sites. The dates tend to indicate all of these were the same man. (Yes, the historical Jesus was apparently seeking knowledge beyond the Torah)

Really? Keeping in mind that Muhammad lived (c. 570 – June 8, 632 CE or AD) and it was during the last 22 years of his life, beginning at age 40 in 610 that Muhammad reported revelations that he believed to be from God and he preached to the people, imploring them to abandon polytheism and to worship one God. While, according to many scholars, Jesus was crucified April 3rd of 33 AD. A difference of 537+ years.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Gambler2015

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Muslim records show Jesut ben Miniram visited several of their holy sites. The dates tend to indicate all of these were the same man. (Yes, the historical Jesus was apparently seeking knowledge beyond the Torah)

Really? Keeping in mind that Muhammad lived (c. 570 – June 8, 632 CE or AD) and it was during the last 22 years of his life, beginning at age 40 in 610 that Muhammad reported revelations that he believed to be from God and he preached to the people, imploring them to abandon polytheism and to worship one God. While, according to many scholars, Jesus was crucified April 3rd of 33 AD. A difference of 537+ years.

She is correct. Mohammed was mostly uneducated when he started creating the tenets of the muslim faith. In many places, the Koran mentions Mary as the sister of Moses and Aaron and the daughter of Imran. The Koran confused them because both of them carry the same name, despite there being several centuries between them. For example - 19:28, and 66:12).

Nonetheless, it does point to a historical understanding that at the time of islam's founding the name of Chris was well known.

Additionally, it is rather one sided to say that Jesus did not exist because their was no Roman record of him. There are hundreds of writings of the early church, early bishops, early synods. Certainly, more evidence than Herod existed, Plutarch, Socrates, Julius Cesar - and yet is there widespread doubt that Cesar existed.....?

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ORIGINAL: rkfdbdsm


Also, to elaborate on why I find the Catholic attitude toward the gnostic texts to be amusing is that until the discvery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and similar works, the church tended to deny the existance of other gospels, or at the least portray them as elaborate fakes. Since then, they've begrudgingly accepted them as "likely authentic", but it eventually came out that copies of many of these texts have been in their possession for centuries. I can't help but laugh at the irony it all!

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The Talmud actually has it at Jeshua Ha Notzri (Joshua from (of) Nazareth). Ben Myriam thats just ghey, son of Miriam (Mary?) where do you get this shit? He comes of age he leaves his mother, done deal in many cultures 30 some fucking years old and he is known by his mother? Not in the history of the fuckin world kids, unless your God is Jesus the bastard son of the leprous whore mary.

Thats the only way you would be stuck with that name at 30.

Wheres your saviour now?

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: rkfdbdsm


Also, to elaborate on why I find the Catholic attitude toward the gnostic texts to be amusing is that until the discvery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and similar works, the church tended to deny the existance of other gospels, or at the least portray them as elaborate fakes. Since then, they've begrudgingly accepted them as "likely authentic", but it eventually came out that copies of many of these texts have been in their possession for centuries. I can't help but laugh at the irony it all!

You are factually in error.

While the council of carthage set some of the original canon, many catholics and catholic councils were involved in the decision of what was canon. Origen c325 considered over 70 texts, for example. Athanasius in 367. The council of Trent set the catholic canon in 397.

In the eastern rites, other texts were more commonly regarded as inspired, even if not canonical. I have in my posession a book of more than 50 texts (published c1800) that were considered for canon, but rejected.

So your position that the church denies the existence of other writings is not true. Nor has it, necessarily, rejected them as fakes, although the church's position is that many of them are. Many of them were rejected as being of insufficient import, or not doctrinally sound.

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ORIGINAL: rkfdbdsm

Mary, mother of Jesus, was not a disciple, yet her account of his life would be far more interesting than Paul's opinions, at least to me. Mary Magdalene, Lazarus, even Longinus would have insights that would have been more insightful about who Jesus was, and far more inspirational and uplifting, than the half-crazed rantings of a man known only as "John" describing what seems like a fever dream of doom in Revelations, a book that has a murkier origin than even the Qabala!