Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (Full Version)

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Tantalust -> Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 4:51:11 AM)

Maybe I should just tell the Trans Fem that is giving me a hard time as regards the nearest I can get in terms of my identity in the personals to go forth and multiply or maybe I should ask here what do others think as I am open to suggestion, I have been all my life?

In real life and at the Gender Identity Clinic I attend for transitional services I identify and am respected in that identity as an Non Binary Intersex human, but I come here and there is no provision for Intersex people, so we in effect have to plumb for one of three states; male, female or trans of which are not accurate and in fact can be very disheartening where it does come across loud and clear that society doesn't want to recognise us - we don't exist.

So what do others think what identity would be best fitting for a Non Binary Intersex Human here on this website ?

And for that matter how should a person in transition identify ?




PonyGroom -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 5:18:43 AM)

How can I know the answer to your question?

I think alt-sex sites can make a difference by adding to their Male / Female / Trans* list but what should they add? "Intersex"? "Hermaphrodite"?

If you were born with, for example, a vagina and a small penis, and during puberty developed breasts, but now at twenty-something feel your gender is more male than female, and have begun to transition by taking hormones and seeking surgery - is it reasonable to assume your personal journey is similar to that of those who are diagnosed and treated with Gender Dysphoria?




Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 5:31:59 AM)

Yes I would agree it is a similar journey to those that transition but the trouble is Intersex people can't be diagnosed with gender dysphoria or for that matter transexualism. The problem is given Intersex is so unrecognised most including this website think there is just male, female and trans when the reality of humanity is quite different.

So be it intersex or transitioning what would be a fitting identity for the purpose of the personals side of this website,where I will say the confrontation with the opinionated earlier has rocked my gender identity where I am starting to get that familiar feeling of not fitting in again.




DesFIP -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 8:20:18 AM)

You're welcome here. Just block the idiot who says you aren't.

There used to be an intersex poster years ago who was a welcome member of the forums.

You aren't required to talk to people who put you down. In fact, I strongly suggest you don't talk to those types.




Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 10:17:53 AM)

Thank You DesFIP, I remember you from the past when I used to be more active here to the tune of 7k posts before all hell broke loose with this identity thing and I went down some very dark paths indeed to come out the other side with where I am now going and so these so called Trans that police the profiles on the other side do not help at all with what is very fragile given societal attitudes and I wonder have they forgotten their own struggle so soon.

But it's me I am not very discerning of the wrong sort through a need to educate, but the problem is now passed as the offender hurled a load of abuse then blocked me - the action of a coward and something else I detected ; insecurity - else why try to deny other people's identity when you expect them to accept yours.





crazyml -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 11:54:30 AM)

Hello,

First, can I thank you for posting? - It's prompted me to do some googling and learning!

Firstly, yeah, I think if you've explained your status to the trans person in question and they're still giving you a hard time, "Fuck off" is appropriate.

Personally (and I speak as a het-white-male) I feel as if someone who is trans ought to be a little bit supportive of someone who is intersex, if only because they should be aware of the stuggle that trans folk have had to gain acceptance. But - I'm not really in a position to call the odds on this, given my het-white-male status!

I'm really sorry that you're getting the "not fitting in" feeling again, and while there's not a lot I can do about it, I can promise to respect your status and get squirrelly with people that don't.

I should, gently, warn you that while on one hand it would be reasonable to expect kinky folk to be inclusive, in practice you'll find a fairly familiar amount of misunderstanding, ignorance and (from time to time) ass-hattedness as you'll see in the general population.

You're on a journey that I cannot possibly comprehend, but I can comprehend just enough to know that I can help a little by being accepting or be an asshat and make it harder. I'd like to go for option one.

Welcome!





Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 12:13:44 PM)

Thank You Crazyml




Lucylastic -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 12:54:14 PM)

HI and welcome:)

Some people are asshats....
I can be, but it wont be for your gender, intersexed , trans, etc.
Im more comfortable how the individual describes themselves,
a) it makes it easier for me not to offend, when none was meant.
b)I prefer not to make assumptions/judgements on gender or orientation.
Des and Crazy said everything I could have said, so I wish you luck here.




Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 1:14:02 PM)

And another name I remember from the past. Thank You Lucy.




BitaTruble -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 1:56:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantalust

Maybe I should just tell the Trans Fem that is giving me a hard time as regards the nearest I can get in terms of my identity in the personals to go forth and multiply or maybe I should ask here what do others think as I am open to suggestion, I have been all my life?



You can only teach those who are teachable so let that one go. You will have more opportunities.

quote:

In real life and at the Gender Identity Clinic I attend for transitional services I identify and am respected in that identity as an Non Binary Intersex human, but I come here and there is no provision for Intersex people, so we in effect have to plumb for one of three states; male, female or trans of which are not accurate and in fact can be very disheartening where it does come across loud and clear that society doesn't want to recognise us - we don't exist.

So what do others think what identity would be best fitting for a Non Binary Intersex Human here on this website ?

And for that matter how should a person in transition identify ?
If it were me, I think I would identify with my end goal. In transition, I've already left the past behind so that would no longer apply.

If it is really important to you - I always thought just being human was kinda cool ;) - perhaps make a list of terms (folks here can help!) which you can put into your profile to round out the limited choices .. see which terms resonant in your head, instincts and heart and that will be yours. The label other folks might want to slap on your ass.. well, go ahead and let them. It's on your ass so you can't read it.. only they can.





Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (2/29/2016 2:25:22 PM)

Aye, human would be the ideal and indeed I do refer to myself when asked that I am an Intersex human but for the purposes of places like here, well, profiles go before us and there the dilemma.

In the offline world I use such gender identity terms as Androgyne and Non Binary, neither of them legal identities where in which case I have to unhappily fall back on my judge it by what's between the legs birth certificate identity. And yes despite being Intersexed, I am transitioning of sorts to move away from my more male appearance where I have it given intersex I will always be an Androgyne, just a more feminine and there happier one or rather my external more closely matches my internal as can you believe it. despite male privilege I hate being treated as male and there denied my femininity of which is a very important part of me, it is a bit like walking with one shoe on and one shoe off.

But an interesting article I picked up this morning of which might provide some interest to some, if not many




LadyPact -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/2/2016 12:32:39 AM)

Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm just offering my opinion.

Yes, human would be a great choice, if it was offered. I have to admit, since you only get three to choose from, I would more likely go with trans* just based on the fact that it's the only non binary option. Then, in big letters on the text in my profile, I'd say what I had to say about my identity because the drop down menu didn't fit. Hopefully, I'd make it an identity statement, rather than a rant, but knowing me, that would depend on my attitude the day I wrote it. [8D]

There was something else about your post, though. Yeah, you would think, huh? Don't feel bad that you ran across the person who has an identity that's gaining ground in acceptance while you are still struggling for yours. It's not terribly uncommon when we look at the past in alternative communities. Every person who has responded on this thread probably remembers how some bisexuals weren't accepted by some folks in the gay and lesbian communities. That was all about "what do you mean you've voluntarily slept with the opposite gender and you liked it? How dare you!" Then, it was, "you're not really the gender you say, so you're not like us." Post op people choosing to shun those who didn't want to transition their bodies. It's not just het folks who do that. Better now doesn't mean kumbaya over the last few decades.

Have you considered writing Support to ask about additional identity options? I don't know if they'd be willing but it might be worth at least a shot. If nothing else, you might educate someone.




DesFIP -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/2/2016 10:20:36 AM)

The only thing I would add is that you might use your sig line to tell people what pronoun you prefer to be used. English only has his and hers, and rather than accidentally offend, personally I would not respond.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/2/2016 11:05:57 AM)

Non Binary Intersex human. I mean those words make no sense to me and I have to look them all up, even sapiosexual when it first came out. Not even sure it’s a real word, certainly my spell checker did not pick up on it…I use it some of the time dear readers.

I identify as huwman, perhaps some alien dna, whiff of cheap chardonnay, musk of 3 cats, and penchant for cake. I am physically attracted to almost no-one, save perhaps the mythical corset golden package (long list not going into it) and do not understand most people who view the other as a hole or rod, or fresh meat, someone to vacuum attention from, to beat be beated, abused or be abused, and so on.

Now, granted it was brief descriptors, identify myself – see what I am saying here. I identify you as human other than that I don’t really care and have better things to do with my time than look up all these daft gender descriptions –it’s out of hand there are literary a hundred or so I can think off with bizarre names...and fet list makes me laugh, and they still have nothing for liar, cheat, genuine, hotair,scallywag & so-on - a lie-liar cannot identify with any role - my thoughts,

So where were we someone is giving you a hard time because of the above and trying to enforce her will, place you into a specific subset. Have you tried telling her nicely 3 times no more give up after that and find a better friend?




MrRodgers -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/2/2016 3:07:07 PM)

Yea, I am kind of old-school here too...kinda palaeosexual.

Intersex ? NO !! That would mean traffic lights and pedestrian aids etc. Way too much money and all of the construction...geez.




Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/2/2016 7:55:50 PM)

Well, intersex has arguably been around since the dawn of mankind or so countless old world descriptions of different types of people would suggest, personally I like what the Hindus have to say and for that matter old Hebrew. for how many genders did they recognise at one time certainly more than two. But we have been mostly hidden in the western world by western medicine that for some reason did not want the general population to know about us, where there are many theories abound one of which may have been born of notions of masculinity that always hated the suggestion of feminine males where still cross dressers are derided by society where tomboys aren't and of course the hostility towards the Trans identity it's the male to female that gets everything negative whilst the female to male just seems to fit in.

But given the recent successes of the Trans movement in terms of more positive public awareness there are noises being made in the Intersex movement ranks where perhaps society will get to know about us in the very near future as for certain the variation I am involved with are discussing now how to raise our game, where we are the most common variation, perhaps one in five hundred what look like males, mind I know a few female versions of the same too but they are super rare and of course physicians won't recognise what they think only applies to the male form and not many physicians even recognise the condition when presented with the male form anyway, it has been hidden that well.

Oh and non binary is to me a gender expression of my sex where given intersex I am either male and female or none of the above, it can mean both, but really I prefer the older term that carries no weight, that of androgyne.

And yes it's all bollocks really we are all just human ideally, but we live in a world where identity matters for, well everything that doesn't include the face to face meeting in the first instance, we have to describe what we are so others may decide what to do.

You want to see what I do to forms that only give two options for sex or gender, for my rather naughty lack of compliance choosing only one of two options is I know raising awareness.




YBunny -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/3/2016 1:43:50 PM)

Tantalust, I also have issues with sites lacking the ability to accurately identify members. I'm intersexed, but in early childhood was surgically altered to have male looking genitals, in puberty, I developed breasts and never developed an adams apple, yet what ever wacky hormones I grew up with, I ended up at 5'11" and rather large framed fro a gal. To complicate things further, since I was already given a genital altering surgery, I do not qualify for SRS that so many MtF transsexuals have available to them.

I find that it's not just how web developers set up their sites, but many in the community can not handle how my anatomy is different. The worst are lesbians. I found many who recognized me as being just a feminine as they were, to the point where that were ready to pack their UHaul and move in. Often these gals would express distress for their partner wearing a strap-on not being able to feel anything through the shaft of plastic. When I then explain how I'm different, the sh*t hits the fan, I unanimously hear the very same words every time "But, I'm Lesbian" and I never hear from them again. So much for any relationship with a gal describing herself as a lesbian, all they care about is one and only one body part.

I'm sure there will be many lesbians who would take issue with what I wrote above, but just try to prove me wrong - I can't count the number of gals who freaked.

My search now is for bisexual gals who are open to and comfortable with both genders




angelikaJ -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/3/2016 2:41:12 PM)

If you identify emotionally as one gender over another, then I would use that as how you identify in the check boxes... and then further explain being intersex in the text part of your profile.

Remember that some people are just miserable and argumentative.
Don't take vitriol personally.
If it hadn't been you, she would have gone on the offence about something else with someone else.

Best wishes!




DarkSteven -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/4/2016 12:55:34 PM)

If it makes you feel better, the collarspace designation of Trans is ridiculous. It lumps MtFs in with FtMs. That's like throwing all cismen and ciswomen together into a bucket titled Cis.

So it's not like transpeople have a usable classification either.




Tantalust -> RE: Male, Female, Trans.....what about Intersex ? (3/4/2016 3:10:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YBunny

Tantalust, I also have issues with sites lacking the ability to accurately identify members. I'm intersexed, but in early childhood was surgically altered to have male looking genitals, in puberty, I developed breasts and never developed an adams apple, yet what ever wacky hormones I grew up with, I ended up at 5'11" and rather large framed fro a gal. To complicate things further, since I was already given a genital altering surgery, I do not qualify for SRS that so many MtF transsexuals have available to them.

I find that it's not just how web developers set up their sites, but many in the community can not handle how my anatomy is different. The worst are lesbians. I found many who recognized me as being just a feminine as they were, to the point where that were ready to pack their UHaul and move in. Often these gals would express distress for their partner wearing a strap-on not being able to feel anything through the shaft of plastic. When I then explain how I'm different, the sh*t hits the fan, I unanimously hear the very same words every time "But, I'm Lesbian" and I never hear from them again. So much for any relationship with a gal describing herself as a lesbian, all they care about is one and only one body part.

I'm sure there will be many lesbians who would take issue with what I wrote above, but just try to prove me wrong - I can't count the number of gals who freaked.

My search now is for bisexual gals who are open to and comfortable with both genders



Ybunny you have my deepest and honest sympathies for what the medical profession did to you for I am aware of what they do, where I believe it is the WHO has now labelled such as akin to torture and is seriously discouraging the practice, the practice of medics playing god where no doubt there is experimentation in the act, curious though many that have been messed about by these medical creatures can't find their med records to find out exactly what was done to them, they always seem to be missing as if the medical profession has something to hide.

But what you represent is the other side of the intersex equation to what I am, where were there are campaigns to halt such practices, with our side of the equation, the chromasomally intersexed, well there are some of us, in fact most of whom are male identifying they seek surgery for the removal of breasts and testosterne therapy to make them more manly looking and acting. Those of us of whom aren't male identifying, roughly twenty percent most often we are just cut off from any life improving treatment as if we don't exist, where is it a surprise most transition to female where what we are we are said to be eighty times more likely to seek transition than the standard male.

Though I am not entirely sure I originated with just dodgy sex chromosomes as there is some history of genital surgery when I was way young, surgery my parents are still keeping tight lipped about and of course no med records, imagine their horror when I said I remember some of it, they said given my age at the time I can't possibly until I described the memory. They were not impressed for me to find out about the chromosomes either and are still not understanding of my elation at finding out.

And yeah I know about the trials and tribulations of finding partners, I call myself Tantalust on here for a reason after the mythical Tantalus, where if anyone knows the myth they will know what Tantalus had to endure for eternity.

But good Ybunny for coming out and contributing to this thread for it serves to make readers aware of us, both sides of us, where we can only hope there is a better future for intersex people by our speaking out.




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