RE: How do I avoid time-wasters.

RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (Full Version)

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dreamlady -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 2:31:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: betataster quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady .... A woman contacting a man doesn't make her appear to be any more "real" to him. In fact, a man would be more likely to be question her motives than usual. ... I agree with this for the most part. My profile has attracted some attention and I have received a fair number of unsolicited contacts from Dominas, especially given my short tenure here. I'm not a person that questions motives much. I rely on my instincts and motives will reveal themselves in time. If it's just about whether or not they're going to ask me for money, that's no big deal. They either reveal that fairly quickly or pick up on the hints I drop that that's not what I'm looking for. I have more trouble on these unsolicited contacts with discerning if their motive is to feel me out for a relationship or just to have some email chat. This is a bit of an odd dance y'all have here between a submissive male and a dominant woman. And certainly not one that I have figured out. It seems that the dominant woman wants the supposedly submissive male to be a bit aggressive but not too aggressive? The woman is supposed to be dominant but she still wants to be demure? I don't know. But I have enjoyed most of the exchanges I've had with folks here. Except for one that was distinctly odd. This woman contacted me with a brief message along the lines of "why should I be interested in you?" Okay, I'm game, I thought. I'll give it a shot. So I write her back something and she would give me a very brief reply. This went back and forth but I eventually discovered that getting anywhere close to her would requiring navigating a minefield that might well have no path through it. Eventually, I guess I stepped on one mine too many with her giving me no clues as to which way to go and she blew up. Boom. Thanks for sharing, and some of this is generational, because I don't know what younger women as a whole expect from their male peers, other than the ones I know personally who are used to hanging out in groups. I get the impression, though, that if a male friend isn't assertive as in proactive, or else assertively responsive in showing reciprocated interest, that he will end up getting lost in the shuffle. Please note that 'assertive' is not the same as "aggressive." Men in the beginning stages should not act aggressive with women, only with other men - as controlled aggression - when threatened; otherwise it scares us off because there has been no foundational trust established yet. Imo, a man who has to act aggressively towards a woman has already lost half the battle since he's shown himself to be unmanly and not deserving of a woman's respect. Confident, self-assured men don't try to push themselves onto women, nor do they need to resort to pushing them around either. Being properly assertive is important also, as in not coming across as selfish/needy/greedy and desperate, as in knowing when to back off and how to take cues. If he's unable to exhibit self-control and self-discipline, then this denotes immaturity. A seasoned, skilled hunter knows how to wait patiently or to sit things out for days, knows what signs to look for while tracking, how to adapt and improvise, without giving up like some rank amateur. He doesn't return from the hunt with his head downcast in defeat, bitching and moaning about why he came back empty-handed and has nothing to show for his efforts. DreamLady

betataster -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 2:56:07 AM)
Yes, aggressive was a poor choice of term. Especially in the context of this community. Assertive better conveys what I was intending to communicate. Personally, my feeling is that you take your shot and sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. Even a good marksman misses from time to time and I don't claim to be any Olympic-class marksman. Just a guy trying to make a connection. But you do see what I mean about the odd dance? Demure vs. dominant?

dreamlady -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 4:11:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: betataster Yes, aggressive was a poor choice of term. Especially in the context of this community. Assertive better conveys what I was intending to communicate. Personally, my feeling is that you take your shot and sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. Even a good marksman misses from time to time and I don't claim to be any Olympic-class marksman. Just a guy trying to make a connection. But you do see what I mean about the odd dance? Demure vs. dominant? Most people mix those words up. The same with "passive" (inaction) when "receptive" (receiving) is meant -- nobody with half a brain wants a passive partner. Further, some folks confuse "Dominance" with "domineering." If you have watched any of those animal whisperer shows, effectively establishing and maintaining dominance (usually as pack leader) is done by "calm assertiveness," not with aggression. Which leads me to what you have characterized as an "odd dance." Dominance is a characteristic. A Dominant is not Dominant first, before being a flesh-and-blood person and a human being, and the same goes for a submissive. The fallacy of this misunderstanding is what creates stereotypes, and stereotypes objectify others instead of subjectifying them as individuals, mono a mono. Furthermore, all interactions between sentient beings are subject to spoken and/or unspoken preliminary protocols, which are going to vary somewhat from one individual to the next. People don't come with Quick Start Guides, so you're not always going to get everything spelled out for you in black & white, and no instruction manual is going to cover every. single. possible. situation that you may encounter. Your (plural) interactions with others come with no money-back guarantee and no warranty coverage. You can only try your best to determine which dance partner(s) are in sync with you and you with them, at whichever stage this becomes apparent. DreamLady

betataster -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 4:34:02 AM)
Good points all, as usual. By "odd dance", I am referring to the Fm Ds dynamic vs the traditional? male dominant stereotype (not wanting to get into a history of matriarchal vs. patriarchal society). One would think that if we are looking at a female-led relationship versus the traditional male-led relationship, we are looking to reverse roles. Yet you make the analogy a few posts above placing the male as the hunter. Or, at least, I assume you mean the male there. Which would then place the woman, the dominant woman, as the prey. Otherwise your hunting analogy makes little sense. That is what makes it an odd dance to me, that, in the midst of this concept of reversing roles, we have the same old roles being played out over again. edited for clarity.

dreamlady -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 4:59:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: betataster Good points all, as usual. By "odd dance", I am referring to the Fm Ds dynamic vs the traditional? male dominant stereotype (not wanting to get into a history of matriarchal vs. patriarchal society). One would think that if we are looking at a female-led relationship versus the traditional male-led relationship, we are looking to reverse roles. Yet you make the analogy a few posts above placing the male as the hunter. Or, at least, I assume you mean the male there. Which would then place the woman, the dominant woman, as the prey. Otherwise your hunting analogy makes little sense. That is what makes it an odd dance to me, that, in the midst of this concept of reversing roles, we have the same old roles being played out over again. Forget the hunting analogy for a moment. It is a state of consciousness, and women can be huntresses also. Catch is not always 'prey,' and you are taking this far too literally. Shopping is a form of hunting - especially when one is shopping for bargains - and yet one does not kill one's purchases. If I were to give you an eBay analogy, it wouldn't mean that people are literally getting sold at auction on the common market (legally) to the highest bidder. [8\|] Now, the main point, which does not bear repeating: F/m IS NOT A ROLE REVERSAL. Dominant women do not turn into men. Submissive men do not turn into women. It is patently offensive to presume that Dominance is reserved for the male gender exclusively or that it is a masculine trait, and to therefore presume that submissiveness is reserved for the female gender exclusively or that it is a feminine trait. Dominance and submission have to do with power and authority, and women are fully capable of assuming and wielding feminine power, influence, and feminine authority without having to turn into masculine versions of men. Watching FemDom porn would lead the porn-contaminated into believing that a woman is incapable of dominating a man unless she does a role reversal to emasculate men, or that FLRs are unnatural, when females have been leading relationships just as often as males have, since the beginning of time. DreamLady

betataster -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 5:16:45 AM)
Now don't get all patently offended on me. BTDT. [;)] OK, I take your point. Well put.

dreamlady -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 6:32:01 AM)
It is the concept itself - which you have bought into, hook, line and sinker - which I find offensive. To clarify, you yourself may not watch FemDom porn or read FemDom literature, but you and many others have been influenced by it, whether directly or indirectly. Even FLRs according to the school of Elise Sutton (who is rumored to have actually been a man penning works in this name) thought, advocate a "role reversal" where a Dominant wife plays the role of [an oppressive] husband who essentially strips her male wife of community property rights by titling everything in her name and not jointly as would commonly be practiced (barring a prenuptial agreement, or with the exception of any given couple maintaining their premarital assets and/or finances separately). Two wrongs don't make a right. This is why I often hesitate to call myself an FLR-lifestyle Domme, since WLM-Wife Led Marriage is such an obscure term. Now, are there F/m partnerships where there is kinky role-reversal play going on? Sure, there are. On this, I distance myself even further from BDSM-related kink activities in contrast to D/s ownership. Why? Because it doesn't excite me, and I get nothing out of degrading my partner, and I wouldn't want a partner who wished to be degraded however which way, and/or any of his goods damaged. (Those goods belong to me, after all, along with the rest of him!) Back to the hunting analogy insofar as predator and prey are concerned. Ask yourself this. Are all predators male? Is all prey female? Does an alpha wolf take an omega-zeta she-wolf as his mate? Are all leaders or lead animals male? Are all followers female? No, they are not. Next time you (plural) are out in the woods, go inform the she-predator you encounter that her fierceness is unfeminine -- a fat lot of good that'll do you! In the wild, it is a natural instinct for mates to pair up or get matched up (if not remaining in pairs) according to matching tier levels, whether this is by hierarchy, desirability, or whatever dominant (as in primary -- strength, agility, speed, et al.) characteristics distinguish that particular species from the rest (which is why there are mating rituals to filter out the wannabe contenders). DreamLady

betataster -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 7:07:48 AM)
As always, DreamLady, I appreciate your insights. Too bad I'm not younger and closer! Believe it or not, I do not consider myself contaminated by femdom fantasies. Which is why I'm not keen on joining the local fetish community. What you describe seems close to what I'm looking for.

LadyPact -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 2:34:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: betataster As always, DreamLady, I appreciate your insights. Too bad I'm not younger and closer! Believe it or not, I do not consider myself contaminated by femdom fantasies. Which is why I'm not keen on joining the local fetish community. What you describe seems close to what I'm looking for. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to join the kink community. However, you see a heck of a lot more of the reality that way. The fact that you are reading the forums means at least some of the fantasies come through, which leads you to think some things work the way you assume. You don't need to be watching porn, but the guys watching the porn and being fantasists have an influence. By the way, do me a favor. I would appreciate it if you would compare the emails you get now from those you will be getting six months from now. Right now, you're on something called the 'newest members' list, so you are getting more contacts. When you drop off of that, you'll receive less. (It used to be that forum participation also increased your contacts, but there are fewer forum participants now.) For the average male on a site like this, sit back and wait is bad policy. Dom or sub, it really doesn't matter. If you are not proactive, you'll fall into obscurity.

DesFIP -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 2:51:02 PM)
Instead of a hunting analogy, think of it as a queen and a knight. The knight, going out doing great deeds in her name is proactive. He doesn't call himself a lowly worm. He doesn't laze around hoping she'll call him and tell him of an evil dragon. He goes out and does what needs to be done and brings back the trophy. But she's still more powerful than him and he willingly obeys her commands.

dreamlady -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/19/2016 3:21:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Instead of a hunting analogy, think of it as a queen and a knight. The knight, going out doing great deeds in her name is proactive. He doesn't call himself a lowly worm. He doesn't laze around hoping she'll call him and tell him of an evil dragon. He goes out and does what needs to be done and brings back the trophy. But she's still more powerful than him and he willingly obeys her commands. That's a beautiful way to put it. This is the essence of what inspires an FLR, at least as far back as the days of old, before the time of the Arthurian legends (circa 5th century A.D.), but unfortunately what happened is that that whole Queen Guinevere/Sir Lancelot cuckolding angle became overly focused upon so that much of the message about knight as champion ended up going by the wayside (for some, but not for all). DreamLady

Curmudgeonly1 -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (3/20/2016 7:55:25 PM)
[/quote] By "whining about distance", I assume you mean requiring a prospective match to be close to them? I certainly don't fit that category and have been reamed out for that. Also on this Ameritard thing. Are all Americans tards? Are all tards American? Are Ameritards those tards that happened to be American, implying that there are tards in other countries, also. Are those tards as prevalent, as a percentage of the overall population? Could you please draw me a Venn diagram? Preferably to scale. [/quote] Hard to tell. Oh hell, no. Probably. The available evidence suggests not. No. [sm=dancing.gif]

RebeccaRayne2 -> RE: How do I avoid time-wasters. (4/18/2016 1:10:35 PM)
Don't ever put 'no timewasters please' on your profile. They just take it as a challenge.

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