RE: Emotional Sadism?

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Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/8/2016 6:50:16 PM)
Your past master is In need of a fix of power. Calling you and having power over you after a long period of time is intoxicating. After a faulted relationship, you are is energy surge, even when he decided you weren't good enough. He will use you as a stair step.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/8/2016 10:46:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady I still can't see the difference between the two, though, only because the Mental Domination part is where mental and psychological sadism comes into "play" on a consensual basis with one's counterpart maso who derives gratification from being placed in mental (and frequently concomitant sexual) torment. Sorry Ishtar, but that membrane between causing emotional hurt and causing emotional damage is so thin, that you would have to be walking a tightrope along with the object you are toying with, the both of you together. Doing so without a safety net which is virtually impervious doesn't seem very cool. If this is part of your (plural) melodramatic play dynamic, with elements of CNC that your mental maso partner IS cool with, then be edgy with your bad selves. Of the many variations to cuckolding, for instance, mental torment seems to be a common thread throughout those, although the sexual torment aspect of cuckolding usually reaches a state of short-term closure before the next round starts up again. But I (personally) cannot envision emotional sadomasochism reinforcing the foundation of nearly unconditional trust that two D/s partners should be progressing towards. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but what kinds of aftercare do provide as an emotional sadist in a BDSM context or whatever else you might implement as precautionary measures so that you don't inadvertently do actual (and possible indelible) psychological damage of the PTSD variety?[/color] This is a very very heavy "your millage may vary post" the following applies to me, personally, and is in no way to imply as a general principal that would in any way apply to submissives, masochist, or even emotional masochists as a group. For me? No aftercare at all. The point is the pain, and aftercare lessens the experience. For me, emotional masochism is cathartic. It actually deepens my bond with him. The mechanism by which this happens is roughly as following: "If he shows that he sees, knows, groks, understand my bad sides... everything that I don't like about myself... everything that I'm insecure about... if he knows the worst of me, and acknowledges that he knows the worst of me, and YET, still wants me, still wants to be with me, then I feel appreciated, loved, cared for". It basically comes down to: This person really wants me... all of me, the good and the bad. They don't expect me to uphold a fake image that pretends to be more perfect than I really am in order to like me. They know me, REALLY know me. The know all the things about me that I really don't want anybody to know... and... they still want to be with me regardless of the bad. That being said... - It's extremely hard to do emotional masochism with me. Unless you know me extremely well, and know how to push my buttons, most of the stuff you could say to me wouldn't phase me at all. - I am unusually insusceptible to emotional damage/trauma. I don't want to get into details around this, but I basically have Aspie like trades that make it so that anything you say to me, no matter how awful, isn't going to bother me unless it's actually literally and factually true. Therefore, doing lasting damages to me is rather hard, because I know myself extremely well, and generally like myself a lot (and am very self-confident) so even if you start hitting on the hardest stuff I don't like about myself, it's generally not really going to hit me THAT hard. - I truly and genuinely don't give a shit what most people think about me, ergo, a casual play partner isn't going to be able to engage in emotional sadism with me, because I'm simple not going to care enough about what they say for it to matter. I've been wanting to play with Kana for a while now, for example, and I'm pretty damn confident that I could tell him to pull open the flood gates and give me his worst when it comes to emotional sadism, and that it wouldn't really affect me at all... not even in the moment... simple because I don't know him well enough to give a shit about what he thinks about me. So in order for emotional sadism to work on me, I have to care a lot about you to begin with, which makes it the cathartic experience of it being an affirmation that they care about me for who I really am, and not because they care about some idealized image they have and are pretending I am. - Because I process it as an affirmation that they really care about me, the thing that they'd need to do if things do end up getting pushed too far, is affirm that they really care about me. If it would at some point really hit home too hard, afterwards what I'd need is a while of him showing me that he loves me more attentively than usual, and I'm pretty sure I'd be fine again. Like I said, I don't 'do' lasting emotional trauma easily. - In a weird way, I think it's precisely because it's generally extremely hard to hurt me emotionally that I enjoy this type of 'play'. It's like I'm missing out on part of the 'depth' of emotional range that most people experience, and so I have a drive to 'make up for it', and push it to that point anyways... I don't really have a good way of explaining this exactly, because it doesn't really make sense to want the pain that you generally 'miss out on' instead of just being glad you don't have it... but it's the closest I can get to explaining why I want it to begin with. I don't know if any of that maked any sense. But it's how it works for me, and why it's generally an extremely good experience for us both when we engage in it. But like I said to the OP, the above is are a whole bunch of caveats that explain why emotional masochism works for me -most of which won't apply to your average person- and why he knows that it works for me, and why he is fairly certain that he can predict what kind of reaction I'll have to it, and why for us it's a good thing in our specific relationship. Without those caveats in place... emotional sadism wouldn't apply, instead he'd just be an insensitive asshole being selfish, which is a whole other ballgame.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/8/2016 10:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady From OP's update, it would appear that she never was on board with getting the life sucked out of her and being made to feel like an empty shell, and has found the courage once more to leave a dysfunctional mini-clusterfuck that does not meet her innermost needs, wants, and desires. I totally agree with that. It's hard to judge online, because you never really have all the relevant information. But based on the little the OP has said, and reading between the lines, I don't think what he's doing is emotional sadism. I think he's being an asshole who claims he's being an emotional sadist to excuse his general assholeness.

LadyPact -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/8/2016 11:29:34 PM)
<Fast reply> Agreed. It's become very much a "my sadism, sensual, fluffy, whatever" is so much better than your type of sadism is better than yours type of post.

Slavebluet -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/9/2016 6:22:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady For me, emotional masochism is cathartic. It actually deepens my bond with him. The mechanism by which this happens is roughly as following: "If he shows that he sees, knows, groks, understand my bad sides... everything that I don't like about myself... everything that I'm insecure about... if he knows the worst of me, and acknowledges that he knows the worst of me, and YET, still wants me, still wants to be with me, then I feel appreciated, loved, cared for". It basically comes down to: This person really wants me... all of me, the good and the bad. They don't expect me to uphold a fake image that pretends to be more perfect than I really am in order to like me. They know me, REALLY know me. The know all the things about me that I really don't want anybody to know... and... they still want to be with me regardless of the bad. That being said... - It's extremely hard to do emotional masochism with me. Unless you know me extremely well, and know how to push my buttons, most of the stuff you could say to me wouldn't phase me at all. - I am unusually insusceptible to emotional damage/trauma. I don't want to get into details around this, but I basically have Aspie like trades that make it so that anything you say to me, no matter how awful, isn't going to bother me unless it's actually literally and factually true. Therefore, doing lasting damages to me is rather hard, because I know myself extremely well, and generally like myself a lot (and am very self-confident) so even if you start hitting on the hardest stuff I don't like about myself, it's generally not really going to hit me THAT hard. - I truly and genuinely don't give a shit what most people think about me, ergo, a casual play partner isn't going to be able to engage in emotional sadism with me, because I'm simple not going to care enough about what they say for it to matter. So in order for emotional sadism to work on me, I have to care a lot about you to begin with, which makes it the cathartic experience of it being an affirmation that they care about me for who I really am, and not because they care about some idealized image they have and are pretending I am. - Because I process it as an affirmation that they really care about me, the thing that they'd need to do if things do end up getting pushed too far, is affirm that they really care about me. If it would at some point really hit home too hard, afterwards what I'd need is a while of him showing me that he loves me more attentively than usual, and I'm pretty sure I'd be fine again. Like I said, I don't 'do' lasting emotional trauma easily. - In a weird way, I think it's precisely because it's generally extremely hard to hurt me emotionally that I enjoy this type of 'play'. It's like I'm missing out on part of the 'depth' of emotional range that most people experience, and so I have a drive to 'make up for it', and push it to that point anyways... I don't really have a good way of explaining this exactly, because it doesn't really make sense to want the pain that you generally 'miss out on' instead of just being glad you don't have it... but it's the closest I can get to explaining why I want it to begin with. I don't know if any of that maked any sense. But it's how it works for me, and why it's generally an extremely good experience for us both But like I said to the OP, the above is are a whole bunch of caveats that explain why emotional masochism works for me -most of which won't apply to your average person- and why he knows that it works for me, and why he is fairly certain that he can predict what kind of reaction I'll have to it, and why for us it's a good thing in our specific relationship. Ishtar, I get you on so many levels that we could be emotional doppelgangers, lol. For myself I will also add physical pain as well. He knows me, everything, the good and the bad and he still wants me, despite those flaws that I see in myself. I wrote that same exact thing to him in my day journal. Who else will understand and accept me the way I am? But, he has never acknowledged that verbally to me. In my mind it is because he would always call me back to him. He wanted me with him again and again, even when I was crying, had snot coming out if my nose and looked as uguly as anything. Even though I was confused and uncertain. He will fix this won't he? He will make me stronger and more confident in myself, won't he? He's told me he would. He showed it sometimes when we were together. Getting sprayed with the hose? After, he got down and wiped the mud off if my feet. A hard physical session? He would apply ointment on the wounds. But that is were the Humm affection ended. All I got was an I'll see you next time and here is a task for you while you are away. I to am unusually insusceptible to both physical and mental damage/trama. I am like you, I don't care what other people think of me in general. I don't know you so why should I care what you think. You don't matter in my day to day life. Oh are you mad at me for something? You are in my space for maybe 5 minutes, go away. Whore, slut, bitch, humiliation, nice try. Physical? I have such a high tolerance for pain it's ridiculous. Nipple clamps, tens unit, (that tickled a lot), whip, strap, needles, the list goes on. Next. I had the thought that I was his challenge. How far could he push me before I called the safe word. Or will I ever call the safe word, because if I do then he will stop and I'll lose his attention. But with him? He was my everything. While we were together I had his attention, his focus. As soon as he was finished, though? I had nothing. So I had to go back to get more? It's hard to explain. Unlike you I have very little self confidence in myself. I'm not going to go into my past hurts here, lol, needless to say, this is where the backlash comes into play. I push everything to the background so I can function. I will swallow the pain and push on, trying to forget. But they come back to bite me on the ass when I least expect it. Writing it to him reopened wounds that while I'm by myself should never resurface. Of course there is so much more that has happened and not happened. It is very hard to explain to others in a few words what the emotions are. The feelings and thoughts that go throw my mind. Maybe a subs mind. Structure, focus, ( I had those ) acknowledgment, love, and care. No. It is amazing what a simple touch will give to a person that is willing to be and give everything for another. Lady, I had to teach myself how to live in the real world. I have fought tooth and nail and learned how to be independant, pay bills, work hard, by making mistakes over and over again. Life's lessons never stop and I am strong in that it will not bring me down. I will always find a way out of a trouble spot because to give up in any life is to die. That took a long time to accomplish. And I am very proud in myself that way. I appreciate your words of how strong I had to be to let him go. It made me feel like a million dollars, because it was so hard to do, but so worth it in the end. blue

dreamlady -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/9/2016 11:26:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Agreed. It's become very much a "my sadism, sensual, fluffy, whatever" is so much better than your type of sadism is better than yours type of post. I'll have to differ with you on this, because I don't believe that's been the intent of anyone posting here, and would be of no benefit to OP or to others who have found themselves in a similar situation. If I happened to give you that impression, then it's due to not sharing the same perspective. You (may) see yourself as an emotional sadist, among other things. I see a fine line between emotional sadism and mental sadism. Both comprise psychological sadomasochism. I have been a Humiliatrix in the not-so-distant past, but I always drew the line at the emotional-psychological aspect of mental-verbal/sexual humiliation. I may be splitting hairs, but in order for me to be able to "get into" what I was doing (at my husband's behest), I had to compartmentalize these distinctions for myself or I wouldn't have been able to play this part. If others don't see any distinction between the emotional and the mental, or the sexual, then perhaps it's because it's less of a roleplaying function for them than it was for me. In other words, I could not humiliate and/or degrade, for real. Not better, not worse -- it is/was what it is/was. And as such, immediate aftercare was mandatory for us, and then there was one other sub after him (who reminded me of my late husband, but not with the sub who showed me that I didn't have to engage in a humiliation & punishment dynamic in order to have D/s ownership). I haven't resurrected this "role" since then and I'm not looking to do so either. I can mentally dominate without including any of that in my arsenal. . . toolbox, I should say, and I don't feel the need for it. But that's just me. (Famous last words [:-] -- wait till I get a bratty, arrogant sub who needs to get taken down a few notches. . . .) quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady From OP's update, it would appear that she never was on board with getting the life sucked out of her and being made to feel like an empty shell, and has found the courage once more to leave a dysfunctional mini-clusterfuck that does not meet her innermost needs, wants, and desires. I totally agree with that. It's hard to judge online, because you never really have all the relevant information. But based on the little the OP has said, and reading between the lines, I don't think what he's doing is emotional sadism. I think he's being an asshole who claims he's being an emotional sadist to excuse his general assholeness. Absolutely, and I inferred the same. Whether or not OP was an emotional masochist, her ex-Master clearly didn't know Wtf he was doing by neglecting her and thereby neglecting, if not abusing, their relationship by not meeting her needs and not caring enough to be more than just a Master-in-absentia a large chunk of the time. Thank you, btw, for sharing what you did. It was eye-opening, and so was what mousekebob had explained as well. What's awesome Slavebluet, is that you can see where your (and an s-type's basic) need for structure, consistency, and explicit direction was not being fulfilled then and hasn't been getting fulfilled lately with him back in the picture. No doubt, he assumed that picking up where you both had left off meant that you should continue to read his mind and tolerate his style of irresponsible leadership. DreamLady

LadyPact -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 1:21:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady I'll have to differ with you on this, because I don't believe that's been the intent of anyone posting here, and would be of no benefit to OP or to others who have found themselves in a similar situation. Before we go too deeply with this, I'm going to say that my knee-jerk reaction to the OP's situation is that we're not dealing with emotional sadism. You could take this same situation, skipping the kink name for the other party, and ask the same question about a vanilla boyfriend, and every gal pal this OP has would be telling her that he just doesn't GAD about her. quote: If I happened to give you that impression, then it's due to not sharing the same perspective. You (may) see yourself as an emotional sadist, among other things. I see a fine line between emotional sadism and mental sadism. Both comprise psychological sadomasochism. To be fair, I draw a line between them as well. The emotional tends to be the immediate reaction and the feelings involved. Mental is the territory where there is a process involved. quote: I have been a Humiliatrix in the not-so-distant past, but I always drew the line at the emotional-psychological aspect of mental-verbal/sexual humiliation. I may be splitting hairs, but in order for me to be able to "get into" what I was doing (at my husband's behest), I had to compartmentalize these distinctions for myself or I wouldn't have been able to play this part. OK. We're going to stipulate that we are different. For example, I'm big on fear. I love people being afraid in the moment during play. One of the best aphrodisiacs on the planet. Same person won't be afraid of me tomorrow because mentally, when he's processed his thoughts, he knows it's a totally different thing. quote: If others don't see any distinction between the emotional and the mental, or the sexual, then perhaps it's because it's less of a roleplaying function for them than it was for me. I'm probably in that category because it's not necessarily role playing to me. It's not an 'in the dungeon only' thing with me, either. (Meaning it can also just be spontaneous because I feel like it.) quote: In other words, I could not humiliate and/or degrade, for real. Not better, not worse -- it is/was what it is/was. This is more like the distinction that we make when it comes to the physical. None of us are knocking little, old ladies over in the street just to get our sadism on. quote: And as such, immediate aftercare was mandatory for us, and then there was one other sub after him (who reminded me of my late husband, but not with the sub who showed me that I didn't have to engage in a humiliation & punishment dynamic in order to have D/s ownership). I haven't resurrected this "role" since then and I'm not looking to do so either. I can mentally dominate without including any of that in my arsenal. . . toolbox, I should say, and I don't feel the need for it. But that's just me. (Famous last words [:-] -- wait till I get a bratty, arrogant sub who needs to get taken down a few notches. . . .) First, I want to say that I think that is really cool for you. I think some of us are refining ourselves all of the time. What really works for us. What really doesn't. What we find we prefer over time. Finding what suits us best, even if it isn't the same as everyone else, is pretty cool. But, let's get back to emotional sadism... For a lot of people, stick those two words together and it becomes "OMG, you're going to psychologically scar that person for life!!!" The sky is falling. The sky is falling! We don't tell the physical sadist that any tap on the ass is going to make a person bleed to death. Same thing, really. Two activities that fall under both physical and emotional sadism are face slapping and choking because they bring an emotional result. If I walk across a room and crack somebody in the face or grab them by the throat, I'm going to get an immediate, emotional reaction. They aren't sitting there, doing this mental process, evaluating it all. For some people, in that split second, I just became the most powerful being on the planet. I could have done the same thing to their elbow, in a physical sense, and most people wouldn't care. They'd probably laugh at me. Targeting their face or their throat, I get something completely different. Fear, humiliation, subjugation, helplessness, anger, powerlessness... All of those things are emotional sadism. To the emotional sadist, it's not necessarily important that the receiver is an emotional masochist. That's still "fluffy" sadism. The definition of fluffy sadism is only doing the things that the bottom wants to receive in the moment. Yes, they are going to process it later, come to terms with it. Lick their wounds. Whatever they have to do. It's not necessarily about coddling them, either. Some people want to process that all by themselves. They WANT to lay in that pool on the floor, the mess that you've made them, by whatever you've done. Those folks are hot as hell.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 7:27:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady Thank you, btw, for sharing what you did. It was eye-opening, and so was what mousekebob had explained as well. I think the reason people who don't engage in emotional sadism/masochism struggle with understanding this one, is because we all -consciously or subconsciously- tend to define the line between 'kink' and 'abuse' as follows: Kink is supposed to be a positive experience, it builds people up, makes them stronger, enhances their lives... it leaves them coming out of the experience better than they went in it (ideally). Abuse, on the other hand, tears people down, makes them more fragile, hurts their life and their self-esteem... it leaves them coming out of it more scattered and weaker than they went in, because now they have damage they need to fix. Considering that we put the line between kink and abuse there, it can be hard to think about something like emotional sadism, and try to figure out how exactly it could be a positive, enhancing experience, instead of a negative thing that causes the need for 'repairs' to ones ego afterwards. Vanilla people struggle with the same thing when they think about kink that's 'too extreme' for their comprehension. Most people can usually understand how a little bedroom spanking could be good, but have a harder time imagining how being a TPE slave could be healthy. Or how doing heavy knife play, or play that leaves deep bruises that last weeks could be a positive experience. I think we all somewhat have the tendency to have a knee jerk reaction when we consider new kinks, to test it against what would be healthy for ourselves, and if we can't figure out a way how the experience would be positive for ourselves, it becomes much harder to try to imagine how the experience can be positive for somebody else. Glad what I said made some sense... cause I feel that the nuances on how this one is a positive one -for me- are often really hard to get across.

Greta75 -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 7:58:22 AM)
Fr Emotional Sadism seem to be like fancy word for what I think is part of verbal humiliation and verbal abuse. My x-dom has quite a mouth on him, and he certainly enjoy alot of verbal humiliation and verbal abuse. And I kinda enjoy all his nonsense as long as it doesn't hit any of my insecurities. My biggest insecurity is my weight. So there is no way I can take insults like, "fat pig" or anything like that. I would take it personally and never speak to him again. My issues about my weight is ridiculous to the extent that even when I was 110lbs, I believed I was fat when people told me I was fat and would cry buckets over it. One of my girlfriends was mentioning to me that, she can't believe I get upset when my mom always called me fat when she's way bigger than me. But you know what? When I look at my mom, I think I'm way bigger than her. I actually fail to see myself as my actual size. I think I am bigger than everybody else, even if the weighing scale says I am 40lbs lighter than another woman, I still think myself as fatter than the woman visually who showed up heavier than me in the weighing scale. It's like, my vision is quite ridiculous. I would always get upset with male companion commenting some woman being way too overweight, and then I would say, I am twice her size, what are you talking about and they'd look at me like, "You're half her size, what are you talking about?" And I'd be like, no way, I'm totally bigger than her! And I'd get really angry at the guy thinking his indirectly saying I'm fat. And men will probably be like, "You're being crazy right now!" So the whole fat thing, I can't get over. And I'm happy to go crazy on men who fat shame other women anyway. I absolutely detest it. One of my qualifying questions for men I want to have sex with is, "Have you ever had sex with a woman bigger than me?" The answer needs to be "Yes." But I never had to verbally tell him all these stuffs. He seemed to know me and know the boundaries. He pretty much says alot of ridiculous things which makes me smile and amused, from slut shaming to insulting my intelligence, to just all sorts of vulgarities and derogatory words, to even racial slurs, because I am not hurt by them. But he enjoys mouthing off. I also think, it helps when it's a love relationship, knowing how ridiculous he is when his saying all these things when I know without a doubt how much he loved me and would rather die than to hurt me. But the fat thing kills me every time and credit to him that even in his genuine angriest with me, his never ever pulled that card in his life at me, knowing how it would kill me. So as with anything, do you need to feel hurt by bad words, just to be considered emotional sadism?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 1:06:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Slavebluet For myself I will also add physical pain as well. For me as well, I just didn't address that in my previous post, because it wasn't part of the subject. quote: ORIGINAL: Slavebluet But with him? He was my everything. While we were together I had his attention, his focus. As soon as he was finished, though? I had nothing. So I had to go back to get more? It's hard to explain. The bold part is very important... to quote a song: "You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness. Like resignation to the end, always the end". If you read my post to DreamLady above, you'll see me make a distinction between kink and abuse, based on whether the experience builds you up, or tears you down. Addition usually follows the pattern of having immense higher, that feel incredibly good in the moment, but have you come crashing down afterwards lower than you were before. Addiction is not healthy, even when it feels good during the highs. While a good session leaves me wanting more, it never leaves me with less (nothing) than I had before. This is why it's important that you figure out whether this dude of yours is an emotional sadist, or an asshole. You, because of who you are and how you work, respond well to this type of pain... but that doesn't mean that he's the right person to deliver it to you. A responsible emotional sadist will manage your need for this type of pain in a healthy constructive way, precisely because they're always considering the consequences of their actions. To them, it's not just about hurting you. It's about hurting you in a way that heals, enhances and helps you both. When somebody like you (or me) gets paired with an asshole, what ends up happening instead is that you get sucked dry. You respond well to the pain, and so in the moment you feel awesome... so unlike normal people, who would throw up defenses when they're confronted with such pain, you let your guards down, and let him take it all... and at then end, when he's taken it all, it leaves you empty, while he's now fulfilled. That kind of dynamic is parasitic, because he feeds off you, and leaves you with nothing for yourself afterwards. A healthy dynamic is symbiotic. It exchanges energy that feeds you both, and leaves you both more fulfilled afterwards than you were before. Considering that you easily give up your energy, instead of throwing up defenses, when you are confronted with these types of situations, and these types of sadism, you should be extra careful that you only engage with people who will give you something in exchange for what you are giving up. You should be careful to only play with people who feed you, as well as feeding off you. Do not get caught up in an addictive dynamic where you're the one feeding your Top, without getting anything in return. Considering what you've said about you feeling empty after playing with him, I would be very very cautious about continuing your dynamic. Just because it feels good in the moment, doesn't mean it IS good for you in the long run.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 1:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Fr Emotional Sadism seem to be like fancy word for what I think is part of verbal humiliation and verbal abuse. So as with anything, do you need to feel hurt by bad words, just to be considered emotional sadism? Emotional sadism is much more broad than mere verbal abuse. It doesn't require anything to be said at all. The OPs Dom ignoring her, and causing her mental suffering, can be a form of emotional sadism that doesn't include verbal abuse. A Dom in a poly dynamic always favoring one sub over the other for sex, can be a form of emotional sadism. A Dom sending his sub away, instead of allowing her to spend time with him, can be a form of emotional sadism. A Dom refusing to let his sub eat the cake at her sister's wedding, or refusing to let her go out for drinks with her friends, or refusing to let her touch him, or refusing to let her speak, or ordering her to confront a phobia by picking up a spider, etc can all be forms of emotional sadism. Whether they are or not, depends on the person is question. For me the order to pick up a spider wouldn't do much, because I'm not scared of spiders, for somebody who is scared of spiders, such an order can have enormous emotional impact. The thing that makes something 'emotional sadism' is the emotional impact it has on the submissive. What does and does not cause an emotional impact is going to be different from person to person. If a submissive is an OCD clean freak, ordering to not clean the house for a week might be emotionally devastating, ordering a slob to do the same thing will likely have no impact at all.

Greta75 -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 4:14:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar The OPs Dom ignoring her, and causing her mental suffering, can be a form of emotional sadism that doesn't include verbal abuse. A Dom in a poly dynamic always favoring one sub over the other for sex, can be a form of emotional sadism. A Dom sending his sub away, instead of allowing her to spend time with him, can be a form of emotional sadism. A Dom refusing to let his sub eat the cake at her sister's wedding, or refusing to let her go out for drinks with her friends, or refusing to let her touch him, or refusing to let her speak, or ordering her to confront a phobia by picking up a spider, etc can all be forms of emotional sadism. Whether they are or not, depends on the person is question. For me the order to pick up a spider wouldn't do much, because I'm not scared of spiders, for somebody who is scared of spiders, such an order can have enormous emotional impact. The thing that makes something 'emotional sadism' is the emotional impact it has on the submissive. What does and does not cause an emotional impact is going to be different from person to person. If a submissive is an OCD clean freak, ordering to not clean the house for a week might be emotionally devastating, ordering a slob to do the same thing will likely have no impact at all. Wow, all these things are seriously hard limits to me. I guess I just like verbal abuse as long as it does not hurt me, and not any emotional abuse at all. As all these things, I wouldn't put up with. Would cause me to walk. Would any sub really enjoy these things? To feel so uncared for? I guess it depends on how it's done. My x-dom would do it in a joking way, watching me get angry and he'll laugh, and I'll sulk, but usually these things I'd totally disobey and call him an asshole and tell him it's not cool. But he'll just be amused and won't get angry because he knows his asking me to do stuffs that is gonna piss me off.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 8:26:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Wow, all these things are seriously hard limits to me. I've engaged in variants of all of those at one time or another, though not exactly like described (I'm not scared of spiders for example). quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I guess I just like verbal abuse as long as it does not hurt me, and not any emotional abuse at all. Verbal humiliation can be emotional sadism/masochism as well, if it causes emotional distress. But it's not the only thing that can constitute emotional sadism, as illustrated, there are other ways as well, not all of them requiring even a single word to be spoken. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Would any sub really enjoy these things? Yup. Some of these even get me off. The first one listed (favoring somebody else for sex) can get me horny out of my mind (which aids only more in his emotional sadism, because while I'm out of my mind horny, he's fucking somebody else). quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 To feel so uncared for? It doesn't make me feel uncared for. It makes me feel dominated, safe, and horny. It enhances and strengthens our relationship.

Greta75 -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/10/2016 11:39:28 PM)
If his sending you away, instead of letting you stay with him, how can that make you feel safe?

Slavebluet -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/11/2016 1:04:39 AM)
It's hard to explain the dependencies that I had, Greta. I was never without him, even if we weren't together. That's where the daily journals came to play. All of my thoughts, feelings, everything were written to him on a day by day basis. His comments every now and then were a balm to me, a reassurance in a way. Good girl you are giving me what I want now tell me...... I was his slave completely. Mental and emotional and physical sado/maso all rolled into one. Ishtar is explaining everything perfectly. I was addicted. Beautifully and accurately put by the way Ishtar. I cried as I read myself perfectly in every word you wrote. It's so comforting to know that there is someone out there that understands. Someone that is explaining to me what he wouldn't. I thought I was the flawed one. Now I know. I will even admit that the thought... Master, is that you posing as another? entered my mind. Thank the goddess that I'm still sane, lol. blue

Greta75 -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/11/2016 1:18:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Slavebluet His comments every now and then were a balm to me, a reassurance in a way. Good girl you are giving me what I want now tell me...... That is some form of after care though or in between care, if his praising you for staying away from him, as per his instruction. But I guess I was imagining worst, like, he just tells you to, go away, and don't bother him until he wants to hear from you again and he'll let you know when that time comes.

Slavebluet -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/11/2016 6:37:25 AM)
I see why you would think that. Lady aslo hit the nail on the head. Being ignored is the absolute worst thing that could be done to me, personally. Not in 2 or 3 days, but if I didn't hear from him by then I would start to worry, but the week that turned longer and longer. Again this isn't something that is explained in a few words. He wasn't praising me for staying away and following his instruction. Not at all. He was giving me enough rope to keep pulling myself back to him. Do you see the difference?

mousekabob -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/11/2016 5:19:32 PM)
Being ignored doesn't bother everyone though. When Master ignores me I just figure he wants time alone or I think "Ok, I'll go off and do something on my own" because well...I like alone time. We both do. We drive each other absolutely batty when we're around each other for too long, like in this year's snow storm and stuck inside with each other for a week straight. I think we were both ready to kill each other! LOL But if you are the type of person who needs to hear from someone all the time or be near them constantly, then make sure that you make that clear in any relationship you begin. This again, comes down to communication. Make your intentions and expectations to the other/s crystal clear.

Kana -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/17/2016 4:24:01 PM)
quote: Master is a sadist. This includes being an emotional sadist you fucking bitchwhore cunt. How dare you talk about me like that, stupid slag? Oh wait, fuck. Fuck.

WilliamWizer -> RE: Emotional Sadism? (3/17/2016 4:49:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mousekabob Being ignored doesn't bother everyone though. When Master ignores me I just figure he wants time alone or I think "Ok, I'll go off and do something on my own" because well...I like alone time. We both do. We drive each other absolutely batty when we're around each other for too long, like in this year's snow storm and stuck inside with each other for a week straight. I think we were both ready to kill each other! LOL But if you are the type of person who needs to hear from someone all the time or be near them constantly, then make sure that you make that clear in any relationship you begin. This again, comes down to communication. Make your intentions and expectations to the other/s crystal clear. I'm probably wrong but from what little experience I have "being ignored" only counts as punishment when you know or feel he's angry or disappointed at you yet he doesn't bother to discipline or punish you as if he's considering you a failure that's not worth his time.

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