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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

He started a thread down in Ask a Sub asking about messaging after being asked not to in hopes of getting a different response and is getting told the same thing he got told here.

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

I am on a frikkin kink site, I would argue my morals are already in question.

Ok, I can see this is really pointless, since we obviously see the world very, VERY differently.

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ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman

Ok little bit of a rant but honestly I want to know why someone would do this, outside of being plain rude or insensitive.

3 girls within a period of 3 weeks. I read through their profiles and posts in great detail. I felt there was a potential connection, so I wrote to them. Nothing creepy, plain old fashioned introduction, what I am looking for, why I liked her profile. An invitation to connect if she felt she would like to know me as well.

If they did not respond at this stage I would say its more than understandable. Surely girls get 100s of messages - makes perfect sense. Maybe did not read mine. Maybe read it but did not feel any possible chemistry. Perfectly good reasons. In an ideal world I would have loved it if they wrote a single line saying "No sorry". But forget it, that's just fine.

Here's the problem. They reply back. They exchange a few mails getting to know each other. Sometimes they will say we should chat on Skype, sometimes I brought it up while keeping it completely optional on their comfort level. Often they said yes. If they did not - great, just keep the mails going back and forth until the trust develops.

Then one fine day - boom! Girl 1 stops replying to any emails. Girl 2 blocks me. Girl 3 closes account and runs away. Honestly I am not hiding anything here - it was not that I said something shitty which caused them to do this. Then I would not be asking this question out in the open. It was like a bolt from the blue.

Seriously? For all the time we invested in each other, could I not have expected at least a "Sorry I dont think we'll gel well" ?

I dont mean to say girls are the only ones that do this. I am sure men (boys?) have done it too, just that it would be outside of my personal experience.

I would like to believe these people were not outright fakes. Yet... what is it about an online connection that makes people treat it as so fragile and cheap? I am sorry if I am being silly here but with time we start investing not only time but emotions too. Sometimes I go to the extent of worrying whether something actually happened to her.

Just to be clear that these fears are not unfounded - this had happened previously with a "little" I had been in touch with. Very attached, very sweet, perfectly genuine. Then disappeared for 4 FULL MONTHS. Turns up later. Turned out she had major mental illness (I knew about it) and was borderline suicidal. I wish she had trusted me enough to tell me about it. Nevertheless we are friends now.

Any thoughts gentlemen / ladies?

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

I am on a frikkin kink site, I would argue my morals are already in question.

Ok, I can see this is really pointless, since we obviously see the world very, VERY differently.

Yes. If your position is that your morals are in question by virtue of you being on a kink site (and that it's thus impossible for somebody to be a moral kinkster) then we indeed see the world from very different perspectives, considering that for me, me being on a kink site has no impact on my morality at all.

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Do you also think that when a telemarketers refuses to put a customer on the 'do not call' list and keeps calling, it says something about the customer when they feel harassed, and not about the telemarketer?

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

How long do you spend on the phone being 'polite' to someone who won't take no for an answer?

That's an interesting off-shoot.

My best answer it depends on how much time I have. I have run the gamut from: "I'm sorry. You caught me, heading out the door. I can't chat at the moment" to: "Wait. let me stop you. I'm probably not going to buy anything from you, but we can chat for a bit. What did you say your name was, again?" to (when I was much younger): "I can't talk right now, but if you give me your number, I'll call you back at about 22.30" Them: "I'm at home, then." Me: "Well, give me your home number and I promise I'll call" Them: "I don't take calls at home" Me: "Oh, good! Then, you'll understand this ... click"

Honestly, these days, I'm usually in the second camp. I've entertained door knockers on my porch that want to "talk about God". I've gone so far as to offer them refreshment. I tend to treat people the way they treat me.



Michael

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

I am on a frikkin kink site, I would argue my morals are already in question.

Ok, I can see this is really pointless, since we obviously see the world very, VERY differently.

Yes. If your position is that your morals are in question by virtue of you being on a kink site (and that it's thus impossible for somebody to be a moral kinkster) then we indeed see the world from very different perspectives, considering that for me, me being on a kink site has no impact on my morality at all.

Wow, still arguing the point?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: ImperialPath

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Strange but all these women here are receiving messages, they dont want and wont answer, with the tiniest population of guys stating they are wrong.

Btw, the women you email arent customer service, or wait staff that are paid..to be nice to you....but im not surprised,you feel entitled to be ignorant.

What a beautiful spin! No, the ladies respond negatively and the male writes a second message also polite which they can ignore or enjoy or chose to fill harassed, I suppose. But doesn't that say a lot about the woman rather than the guy, now that I think a bit more about it?

anyone who says that the women are too small a population here is ignorant of the demographics here......AND is not only spinning, its actively flinging steaming bullcrap.
But then you did tell me you love whipping little liberal girlies(supposedly me).....so you already have a problem with not listening to anyone who disagrees with you. without enforcing your own personal brand of entitlement.
Fah
Dark Feather is a decent guy. Even tho I can disagree with him.

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

You know, you are the first person, ever, that I have seen not only defending people acting like an asshole, but are adamant about their god given right to be so.

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

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ORIGINAL: ImperialPath





What a beautiful spin! No, the ladies respond negatively and the male writes a second message also polite which they can ignore or enjoy or chose to fill harassed, I suppose. But doesn't that say a lot about the woman rather than the guy, now that I think a bit more about it?

Perhaps it says simply that the lady is not interested but the guy is a telemarketer and those guys just hate taking no for an answer.

How long do you spend on the phone being 'polite' to someone who won't take no for an answer?

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ORIGINAL: ImperialPath

You know, I respect your position and since it is yours it is right for you and no doubt other or even most of the women. I just have a hard time with equating men earnestly being men while interacting with women as like "telemarketers". I suppose I will get over that but frankly it kind of puts a damper on any of my interest to even send one email to a woman on here, it would be easier and more pleasurable to not run the risk of being thought of as a telemarketer and focus only on the bar scene or the regular dating sites and that would be fine if I have to.

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So yes, if you hold the door open for me without me asking you to, I consider it my God given (well sorta, cause I don't believe in God) to be rude to you and ignore you.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: ImperialPath

You know, I respect your position and since it is yours it is right for you and no doubt other or even most of the women. I just have a hard time with equating men earnestly being men while interacting with women as like "telemarketers". I suppose I will get over that but frankly it kind of puts a damper on any of my interest to even send one email to a woman on here, it would be easier and more pleasurable to not run the risk of being thought of as a telemarketer and focus only on the bar scene or the regular dating sites and that would be fine if I have to.

I suggest you go to a bar then, because I can guarantee you that just about every women you have mailed a second time after she told you she wished no further communication from you, has felt the same way about you as she does about telemarketers who called yet again...

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Especially when you're the one forcing an interaction on me that I neither wanted, nor asked for, nor desired. I would have preferred it if you had just left that damn door alone, and had let me get it for myself, but you took it upon yourself to ignore my preferences, and force your preference to get the door for me, on me instead.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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Especially when you're the one forcing an interaction on me that I neither wanted, nor asked for, nor desired. I would have preferred it if you had just left that damn door alone, and had let me get it for myself, but you took it upon yourself to ignore my preferences, and force your preference to get the door for me, on me instead.

Wow. That's a lot of drama to pack into one doorway.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

See, beautiful, wonderful... A straight answer. Finally, someone willing to say, "suck it up guys". So take this to heard men (or women) seeing cold contact, go into it with absolutely no expectations of an answer

I have said from the start that you should not expect and answer, because you doing something you choose to do does not create the obligation on another person to respond.

Nobody should expect anything from a stranger they haven't had any previous interaction with, just because they chose to do something out of their desire.

There's certain situations in which its certainly nice, or polite, or courteous to respond positively to a stranger approaching you, but there is no obligation to do so, and as such you shouldn't expect it.

If you hold open a door for a random woman you don't know, it's certainly nice if she says 'thank you', but you should expect it, because she did not ASK you to hold open that door for her, and so she is in no way obligated to acknowledge your desire to do so.
In fact, she would be perfectly justified if she stopped walking the second you attempted to hold open that door for her, and refused to go through it unless she got to open it herself, if that's what she wants to do, because you are not entitled to expect her to respond positively for something she didn't desire you to do.

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I would argue the opposite. In polite society, it is absolutely expected to get/say please and thank you. If I hold a door for someone, I damn well expect a thank you. Do I get it, more often than not, no. But you better be sure, I expect it. To that end, if someone holds a door for me, guess what? I say thank you. A waiter brings me a menu, I say thank you. A cashier gives me change, I say thank you. Why, because its what ya do in polite society. We are talking about expectation versus result here... There are no laws forcing us to be polite, hell in some cities people take it as their right to be rude pricks. But to say we should not expect politeness? We should not go into every exchange with another human being, both offering and receiving common courtesy/politeness? No. Again, this is expectation versus result. I put it out there that everyone should expect politeness.

So your argument is that by your actions, you have the right to force your morals, values and ideals on others?

And that, by voluntarily doing something for somebody else they didn't ask you to do, you are now creating an obligation upon them to be grateful?

And BTW, your argument towards cashiers or waiters doesn't apply, considering that we're talking about private businesses where you create an obligation for them to do something for you. You create the obligation on the waitress and cashier to do something for you (which comes from their boss expecting them to provide you a service, which comes from their desire to earn a living). Considering that you engage with them on the terms that they should have to do something for you, it's obviously reasonable for them to expect you to be courteous and respect their work in return.

The same doesn't apply when you open a door for somebody. When you open a door, you don't do so in reply to an expectation of work you have placed on them. You do it because you feel like doing so.
As such, your desire to do so doesn't create an obligation on them to do anything in return. They didn't ask you to open the door. They didn't expect it. They didn't require it from you. And they didn't place the obligation on you to open the door.

As such, you doing so regardless of your own free will does not create an obligation on them. Sure, it's nice of them if they're courteous in return. But your act of free will does not place any sort of obligation on them, not even to be polite, because they didn't ask you to do something for them.

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since I actually have to go through this pointed explanation.