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33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 4:46:01 PM   
Phydeaux


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Ahhh.. democrats I can agree with....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/33-percent-of-bernie-sanders-not-vote-hillary_b_9475626.html
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 4:49:45 PM   
Tkman117


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Simply put she'll do nothing to change things, while I think voting for Hillary to avoid a Drumpf presidency would be referable, many people who supported burnie are tired of the status quo. They don't want another bought off politician representing the elite, a politician who won't be willing to do the hard things to prevent another economic meltdown, which involves going after the banks and 1%. People are obviously tired of voting for the lesser of two evils, and who could blame them? Right and left are typically owned by the same corporations. I honestly wished it had been between Trump and Sanders, that would have been quite the showdown.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 4:57:51 PM   
Phydeaux


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I'd have voted for sanders over clinton. But thats just because I won't vote for a career criminal regardless of party...

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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 5:19:31 PM   
Tkman117


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If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 6:02:46 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.


Agreed 100%. Even if you ignore the fake scandals...

She still was a disaster as Secretary of State (very few actual decisions, and the ones she made were bad) (and no, I am not talking about Benghazi, rather Libya as a whole)
The email issue at BEST - Incredibly poor judgment - At worst corrupt, maybe criminal


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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 6:20:31 PM   
mnottertail


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40% of nutsuckers wont vote for trump. Another career criminal. Career criminal Hillary wins. (since the nutsuckers are a minority party in the us in any case).

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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 7:23:33 PM   
rkfdbdsm


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Assuming Hillary wins the nomination, I would choose her over any of the offerings from the other side. At least she has enough dirt on the ass-clowns on The Hill that she can force them to do more than whine and collect a paycheck!

Honestly, while I like Bernie, I doubt he'll win the nomination. At that point, I think our best hope is a moderate independent jumping in.

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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 7:38:22 PM   
Phydeaux


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No significant independent will jump in. And it would only help republicans in any event.

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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 7:44:39 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No significant independent will jump in. And it would only help republicans in any event.


Imagine the fallout from a massive number of votes for neither of the two major parties.

I hope it will look something like this.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 9:33:08 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.

What do you call outing the head CIA agent working with the Afgan government. That is attempeted murder if not treason. And don't give me any garbage about Plame, the BUsh people were cleared of that.
BTW, before you say it, no Libby was not jailed for outing her, he was jailed for saying he didn't remember something that they demonstrated he most likely did.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Tkman117)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 9:36:05 PM   
Tkman117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.

What do you call outing the head CIA agent working with the Afgan government. That is attempeted murder if not treason. And don't give me any garbage about Plame, the BUsh people were cleared of that.
BTW, before you say it, no Libby was not jailed for outing her, he was jailed for saying he didn't remember something that they demonstrated he most likely did.


Until the courts decide whether or not she is guilty, she's considered innocent, isn't that the way your court system works after all? If she's guilty she's guilty, but I'm not making assumptions on a case or cases you and I likely dont have the full picture on.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 9:50:34 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.

What do you call outing the head CIA agent working with the Afgan government. That is attempeted murder if not treason. And don't give me any garbage about Plame, the BUsh people were cleared of that.
BTW, before you say it, no Libby was not jailed for outing her, he was jailed for saying he didn't remember something that they demonstrated he most likely did.


Until the courts decide whether or not she is guilty, she's considered innocent, isn't that the way your court system works after all? If she's guilty she's guilty, but I'm not making assumptions on a case or cases you and I likely dont have the full picture on.

I, and any reasonable person who has looked at what her people have admitted to knows she is guilty, but with this administration they will try to cover up for her.
When has the lack of a convection persuaded a lib to stop saying that any conservative is guilty of anything they are accussed of. Even an aqquital doesn't make consevtives innocent. Don't ask us to play by rules you aren't willing to play by.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Tkman117)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 9:54:55 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.


Agreed 100%. Even if you ignore the fake scandals...

She still was a disaster as Secretary of State (very few actual decisions, and the ones she made were bad) (and no, I am not talking about Benghazi, rather Libya as a whole)
The email issue at BEST - Incredibly poor judgment - At worst corrupt, maybe criminal



HRC was as much a political victim in Libya as anybody. I guarantee she had no fucking choice over what was much more likely a CIA inspired uprising in Libya, than a civil uprising. Under Qaddafi, Libya had become the richest country with among the highest standards of living of any country in Africa. The people had no cause or any real reason to rebel against Qaddafi.

The email issue is a totally partisan issue given that Powell and Rice also had private email servers they used while in office the contents of which has never been disclosed and to my knowledge, had no intel. classified...after-the-fact.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/16/2016 9:58:05 PM >


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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:23:41 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No significant independent will jump in. And it would only help republicans in any event.


I've had a sickening feeling in my gut since rumors first started of a brokered GOP convention.

An independent doesn't have to step in. If the Republican party betrays Trump, like I'm sure they're hoping to do, he'll continue his campaign anyway.

Sure, this would erode votes for the GOP candidate, but combine that with a low-energy candidate on the Democrat side, and the low voter turnout that comes with it, and there's a real possibility that the American people will have absolutely no say in who takes the White House in January, because no candidate has the majority of electoral votes required.

The House of Representatives could very well decide it for us, in which case, we are totally fucked.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:26:36 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'd have voted for sanders over clinton. But thats just because I won't vote for a career criminal regardless of party...


Does that mean you won't vote for trumph???a known career criminal

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:29:03 PM   
thompsonx


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there's a real possibility that the American people will have absolutely no say in who takes the White House in January,

When have they ever had a say? The president is appointed by the electoral college.

(in reply to JVoV)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:32:09 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

there's a real possibility that the American people will have absolutely no say in who takes the White House in January,

When have they ever had a say? The president is appointed by the electoral college.


Fuck if I know. I live in Florida. And the powers that be manage to fuck things up in every election.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:33:45 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

What do you call outing the head CIA agent working with the Afgan government. That is attempeted murder if not treason. And don't give me any garbage about Plame, the BUsh people were cleared of that.

Wasn't scooter convicted and then pardoned?


BTW, before you say it, no Libby was not jailed for outing her, he was jailed for saying he didn't remember something that they demonstrated he most likely did.

You mean he was found guilty of lying about outing her?

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:35:55 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I, and any reasonable person who has looked at what her people have admitted to knows she is guilty, but with this administration they will try to cover up for her.


In amerika everyone except hillary is innocent till proved guilty.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: 33% of sanders voters won't vote for hillary - 3/16/2016 10:42:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

If you ignore the fake scandals invented by the right, she still has A LOT of ammo against her that puts her at a disadvantage compared to sanders. Criminal? I'd say that's questionable and up to the courts to decide. Corrupt? Without a doubt.

What do you call outing the head CIA agent working with the Afgan government. That is attempeted murder if not treason. And don't give me any garbage about Plame, the BUsh people were cleared of that.
BTW, before you say it, no Libby was not jailed for outing her, he was jailed for saying he didn't remember something that they demonstrated he most likely did.

In January 2004, the Justice Department chose prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald to investigate the leak of Valerie Plame's identity. From the outset, he was made fully aware that the leaker was Armitage, who resigned from the State Department in November 2004 but remained a subject of the inquiry until February 2006 when Fitzgerald told him in a letter that he would not be charged. The New York Times reported on Sept. 2, 2006:

Among the many things that should give a thinking person pause about this whole sad story is that Patrick Fitzgerald knew from the outset who had leaked the information about Wilson’s wife to Bob Novak. It had been Deputy Secretary of State Rich Armitage, who told the Justice Department that he had leaked the information to Novak, but kept what he had done from the White House.

Then Fitzgerald went after reporters sources, one spending 85 days in jail, many spending untold $1,000's on attorneys fee and all...for no reason but opposition harassment.

Cheney was pissed at Bush for not immediately granting him the great repub get away free card, otherwise know as a...presidential pardon. HERE

Most astute observers know that on the corruption score card since Nixon and then surely Reagan, the repubs have a big lead.

There's no doubt the Bush officials deliberately revealed Plame's CIA connection, if not her name, to the press. But the Plame leak could be characterized as inadvertent in one sense: the leakers, both in the State Department and the White House, did not know that Plame's status at the CIA was classified when they mentioned her to reporters. That is why no one was ever charged with leaking her identity; they did not knowingly and deliberately reveal classified information. So in that sense it was all a mistake. Yes, it was inadvertent, colossally stupid, an embarrassment -- but it was a mistake. HERE

I have heard Obama called treasonous, a traitor and any number of charges for almost his entire two terms and the release of the CIA station chief's name...was an error while the release of Plame's name...was deliberate. The only difference was status at the time.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)
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