MrRodgers
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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Turns out that in Cuba under capitalism, it was man exploiting man and under communism, it was...just the opposite.
I would have thought that you, of all people, would know the difference between communism and socialism.
Socialism allows for and does enjoy a wide mixture of private ownership of property and the provision or production of some services.
Bullshit...some socialist countries do and some do not. The closest any country comes to communism is the vatican.
However, communism does not. Communism has eternally suffered from the unique distinction of an economy operated under almost complete central planning. Socialism does not.
The primary tenant of communism is from each according to their ability and for each according to their need.
The primary tenant of socialism is from each according to their ability and for each according to what you produce.
You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Soviet communism was forever surviving on selling resources to the west for hard currencies,
Bullshit. Where does the west get titanium...the stuff comprssor blades in jet engines are made of? The stuff that makes paint white? Going the other way where does russia get rock drilling bits to drill for oil. Amerika is the only place in the world that produces rock drilling bits. So russia and china and everyone else buys them from amerika. Just as amerika buys their titanium primarily from russia.
Goodrich (an amerikan company)makes the landing gear for the airbus. The rough titanium castings (all tolerances are +.002") are a solid block of titanium with a 7'x28" gundrilled blind hole in them.
such a currency as their own...enjoying little or no trade status. (to a large degree...Russia still is)
Google could disabuse you of this ignorant opinion.
N. Korean Communism has and still does survive on subsidies first from Soviet Russia and now Communist China,
Since n korea is a pretty closed society just how did you acquire this data?
itself thriving on the exploitation of its vast cheap labor force for hard currency from the west and is why the Yuan is not and will never be...a trade exchange currency.
For such a backward and strugling group they have managed to be the 4th largest economy on the planet.
Cuban communism has survived on subsidies from Soviet Russia
That boat sailed like last century.
and now...Venezuela also obtaining hard currencies by selling oil to the west.
What is your point. Amerika sells oil?
Thus, it has only been recently in the recent few years that Cuba has allowed for private enterprise (services) to secure hard currencies due to tourism.
By recently you mean the past 35 years.
I'd be interested in your perspective on just how you make the implied distinction that Cuba is socialist rather than communist with the only possible indication being the above mentioned private services provision to tourism. As it is my understanding that still, no other private enterprise or property is allowed in Cuba.
It seems pretty obvious that you have never been there and all of your information about cuba,russia,china and n korea come from the amerikan govt which you have told us repeatedly is not to be trusted.
Let's first start with definitions, they being necessary, to accurately determine just what is opinion and fact.
Socialism is the govt. ownership of the means of production...period. Socialism in not govt. ownership of land or all private enterprise. There has never been a fully practicing socialist country in existence and to the extent some govt. practices are often called socialist now only refers to a collective pursuit in its existence and costs. One might just as well call all western military...derived from socialism.
Communism: based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the state. Also a system of all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
All of the historical quotes notwithstanding, the practice of these economic systems is how they are defined.
Socialism allows for and does enjoy a wide mixture of private ownership of property and the provision or production of some services.
Bullshit...some socialist countries do and some do not. The closest any country comes to communism is the vatican.
My 3 examples hold true, Soviet Russia, N. Korea and to still a very large extent, so-called...communist China. Socialism now offers what I also described...a mixed economy. The Vatican is a merely bankrupt, religious, skimming operation having been bailed out more than once.
Soviet communism was forever surviving on selling resources to the west for hard currencies,
Bullshit. Where does the west get titanium...the stuff comprssor blades in jet engines are made of? The stuff that makes paint white? Going the other way where does russia get rock drilling bits to drill for oil. Amerika is the only place in the world that produces rock drilling bits. So russia and china and everyone else buys them from amerika. Just as amerika buys their titanium primarily from russia. Goodrich (an amerikan company)makes the landing gear for the airbus. The rough titanium castings (all tolerances are +.002") are a solid block of titanium with a 7'x28" gundrilled blind hole in them.
So you add titanium et al, to oil. So what ? The various engineering and dimensions...are irrelevant. Russia et al, can only pay for it from their earnings (hard currency) from the sale of their natural resources whatever they are and with the hard currency the earn from it...dollars or Euros. Oh ok we can...add caviar.
.....such a currency as their own...enjoying little or no trade status. (to a large degree...Russia still is)
Google could disabuse you of this ignorant opinion.
How does Google change the fact that neither the Ruble or Yuan enjoy any significant forex ? In fact, Russia and China 5 years ago signed a pact to trade with each other in Rubles and the Yuan. How's that working out for them ? Not even a blip on the forex radar.
N. Korean Communism has and still does survive on subsidies first from Soviet Russia and now Communist China,
Since n korea is a pretty closed society just how did you acquire this data?
I have read and researched what little has come out of N. Korea including two lengthy documentaries (done inside the country) that showed in detail Chinese goods by the shipload...going into China. Even some retail stores very recently set up in N. Korea.
.....itself thriving on the exploitation of its vast cheap labor force for hard currency from the west and is why the Yuan is not and will never be...a trade exchange currency.
For such a backward and strugling group they have managed to be the 4th largest economy on the planet.
As I wrote, about 400 million people offering up the cheap oppressed labor...the only real wealth anywhere, making western products. China's vast labor force has it now 2nd largest economy in the world. As Lincoln so eloquently informed, without labor...you have no capital.
Cuban communism has survived on subsidies from Soviet Russia
That boat sailed like last century.
That boat sailed about 1990 at the dissolution of the USSR. Whereupon Cuba had to go hat-in-hand looking for others to replace that handout.
.....Thus, it has only been recently in the recent few years that Cuba has allowed for private enterprise (services) to secure hard currencies due to tourism.
By recently you mean the past 35 years.
NO, Cubans could only own their own homes and 1 more. Not until the lifting of a 54 year old trade embargo could there be any other ownership or western trade of any form and even now foreigners are at a distinct legal disadvantage.
It seems pretty obvious that you have never been there and all of your information about cuba,russia,china and n korea come from the amerikan govt which you have told us repeatedly is not to be trusted.
NO. Obviously I have researched the subject about as throughly as one can from the net and newspapers, media etc.
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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith
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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 
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