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thompsonx -> RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? (3/23/2016 5:51:45 PM)
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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Let's first start with definitions, they being necessary, to accurately determine just what is opinion and fact.
Socialism is the govt. ownership of the means of production...period. Socialism in not govt. ownership of land or all private enterprise.
How is it that land and business are not a means of production?
There has never been a fully practicing socialist country in existence
The soviet union said they were socialist. How were they lying?
and to the extent some govt. practices are often called socialist now only refers to a collective pursuit in its existence and costs. One might just as well call all western military...derived from socialism.
The military is a dictatorship.
Communism: based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the state. Also a system of all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
You may have missed major parts of what marx actually said. Perhaps you should revisit it and reacquaint yoruself with his theories because the above is not even a thumbnail of what he spoke of.
All of the historical quotes notwithstanding, the practice of these economic systems is how they are defined.
Kinda like a republic???Is not the definition in the mouth of the definer?
Socialism allows for and does enjoy a wide mixture of private ownership of property and the provision or production of some services.
Bullshit...some socialist countries do and some do not. The closest any country comes to communism is the vatican.
My 3 examples hold true, Soviet Russia, N. Korea and to still a very large extent, so-called...communist China. Socialism now offers what I also described...a mixed economy. The Vatican is a merely bankrupt, religious, skimming operation having been bailed out more than once.
Soviet communism was forever surviving on selling resources to the west for hard currencies,
Bullshit. Where does the west get titanium...the stuff comprssor blades in jet engines are made of? The stuff that makes paint white? Going the other way where does russia get rock drilling bits to drill for oil. Amerika is the only place in the world that produces rock drilling bits. So russia and china and everyone else buys them from amerika. Just as amerika buys their titanium primarily from russia. Goodrich (an amerikan company)makes the landing gear for the airbus. The rough titanium castings (all tolerances are +.002") are a solid block of titanium with a 7'x28" gundrilled blind hole in them.
So you add titanium et al, to oil. So what ? The various engineering and dimensions...are irrelevant. Russia et al, can only pay for it from their earnings (hard currency) from the sale of their natural resources whatever they are and with the hard currency the earn from it...dollars or Euros. Oh ok we can...add caviar.
The landing gear forging is not a natural resource it is a manufactured product. The dimensions and engineering tollerances on that item are unique. To my knowledge there is no other place on this planet that can gundrill a 7' deep by 28 diameter titanium forging. The talent to hold +.002 on dimensions that large is not a task for amatures.
.....such a currency as their own...enjoying little or no trade status. (to a large degree...Russia still is)
Google could disabuse you of this ignorant opinion.
How does Google change the fact that neither the Ruble or Yuan enjoy any significant forex ? In fact, Russia and China 5 years ago signed a pact to trade with each other in Rubles and the Yuan. How's that working out for them ? Not even a blip on the forex radar.
Why is that important?
N. Korean Communism has and still does survive on subsidies first from Soviet Russia and now Communist China,
Since n korea is a pretty closed society just how did you acquire this data?
I have read and researched what little has come out of N. Korea including two lengthy documentaries (done inside the country) that showed in detail Chinese goods by the shipload...going into China. Even some retail stores very recently set up in N. Korea.
The ships from china bringing goods to amerika is a cotinuous line...so what is your point?
.....itself thriving on the exploitation of its vast cheap labor force for hard currency from the west and is why the Yuan is not and will never be...a trade exchange currency.
For such a backward and strugling group they have managed to be the 4th largest economy on the planet.
As I wrote, about 400 million people offering up the cheap oppressed labor...the only real wealth anywhere, making western products. China's vast labor force has it now 2nd largest economy in the world. As Lincoln so eloquently informed, without labor...you have no capital.
I am missing your point.They have a skilled labor force which manufactures consumer goods for the world.
Cuban communism has survived on subsidies from Soviet Russia
That boat sailed like last century.
That boat sailed about 1990
Which would be last century
at the dissolution of the USSR. Whereupon Cuba had to go hat-in-hand looking for others to replace that handout.
Kinda like amerika has on numerous occasions from our very inception? I believe it was france and spain who lent us the major portion of the funds necessary for the revolution. Japan was a major contributor to our efforts in viet nam.
.....Thus, it has only been recently in the recent few years that Cuba has allowed for private enterprise (services) to secure hard currencies due to tourism.
By recently you mean the past 35 years.
NO, Cubans could only own their own homes and 1 more.
So cubans (according to you)under castro could not only own a home (real property) but could also have rental property. And as my cite show the tourist inustry was revived 35 years ago.
Not until the lifting of a 54 year old trade embargo could there be any other ownership or western trade of any form and even now foreigners are at a distinct legal disadvantage.
Yup...they are a socialist country which means no capitalist enterprises. So please do not conflate free enterprise (being a landlord) with capitalism.
It seems pretty obvious that you have never been there and all of your information about cuba,russia,china and n korea come from the amerikan govt which you have told us repeatedly is not to be trusted.
NO. Obviously I have researched the subject about as throughly as one can from the net and newspapers, media etc.
It would appear that your knowledge comes from the government you claim is not to be trusted.
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