Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted.

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GodsCronik -> Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/24/2016 11:32:06 AM)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/jian-ghomeshi-sexual-assault-trial-ruling-1.3505446 thoughts? discussions? it is somewhat related to the kink world, surprised I didn't see a post earlier Ignoring his actual guilt or innocence, the burden of proof wasn't met by the crown and he was acquitted, that is my take on things.

Tkman117 -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/24/2016 2:53:13 PM)
I've been following this story a bit and I'm sorry but I think what happened to the three women that testified (I can't say anything for the 4th who didnt) was consensual. The fact that they generally continued to have sexual contact (and I'm being general with that statement) with him after their alleged assaults speaks volumes about not only who they are, but also over the fact that it's unlikely whatever kinky rough play happened between them was likely consensual. Keep in mind, they weren't his wives, they didn't have the kind of relationship pressures that often prevent women from leaving abusive relationships. They lived in different locations, often in different parts of the country for that matter, so it doesn't make sense that they would continue to seek sexual attention from him if he in the past assaulted them and they knew that they didnt like it. I personally feel that he was a high profile individual who enjoyed more rough sex than most, and these women jumped on the bandwagon to try and make a quick buck. They all lied to investigators about contacting him after the alleged assaults took place, thus making their initial testimonies less than substantive. Does this make it difficult for other women to come forward about being raped? Definitely, I can believe that. But I also think that there needs to be due justice, and that someone who accuses someone else of rape isn't sent to prison without evidence to back that up, it's too dangerous otherwise. You can't simply have sex with someone and then several months later say that one specific incident was a case of rape, and then continue to be sexually active or flirty with the person who raped you. It just does not make sense. Logically if someone assaulted you, the last thing you'd want to do is encourage further sexual acts with you in the future, which most if not all of the women who testified did after their rapes. Maybe things aren't that cut and dry, but like I said, they weren't his wives, they didn't have the kind of pressures keeping them together that abusive couples tend to have. But thats just my two cents on the subject.

Real0ne -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/24/2016 6:06:01 PM)
well from the article the judge pointed out that they impeached themselves. now if it was the gubmint instead of the gals he would in most cases have had his ass handed to him. that the way the system of law that originated in the uk works

Awareness -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/25/2016 5:01:29 PM)
I read the judgment. It's clear from the way in which the witnesses conducted themselves, changed their stories and in some cases lied in evidence - and were caught - that this entire scenario is a shakedown. These women lied - the judgment makes that perfectly clear - and in some cases engaged in collusion with the express aim of taking Jian Ghomeshi down by any means, foul or fair. Basically, these women are liars looking for a payday. And it makes me wonder just how many of the claims against Cosby are an example of exactly the same phenomenon. Women lying to get a payday out of a wealthier. Jian Ghomeshi isn't much of a target, but Bill Cosby's 450 million net worth paints a huge target on his back. I'm not surprised there are as many women making claims against Cosby as there are: As long as lawyers and men with cash exist, there will also be women who'll lie and destroy a man's reputation so they can get a pay day.

ManOeuvre -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/25/2016 10:02:17 PM)
Victory for due process. Proud Canadian today.

Greta75 -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/27/2016 2:25:16 AM)
I think it's impossible to prove sexual assault that occur 10 years ago, don't cha think? I am not surprise his acquitted at all. Also those who keep claiming this Jian guy is so famous, and women are out for his money. I never even heard of this damn dude. I actually only know about him because a Canadian highlighted his case to me. No news about this dude around here at all. Nobody knows him! Like seriously! Why isn't this happening to Leonardo Di Caprio? Or rock stars like Bon Jovi? I mean, those guys are even more popular and possibly have rebuff even more women. Even this doesn't happen to majority of famous men! I think men who have multiple women accusing them of sexual assault, HAS sexually assault those women. And trying to remember exact details. I tell you, if someone tells me to recount to them my own sexual assault incident that happen to me 10 years ago. I am sure there is gonna be alot of inconsistencies in my story too, doesn't make my molestation any less real. But I am not gonna be able to prove it! Even back then, there were no witnesses. No physical injuries. Who will believe me when I say he molested me? I would be torn to shreds, just like these women were for coming out and trying to find justice. It sucks. But reality is, there is no sure way to prove these things. I said a long time ago, if a woman wants her sexual attacker convicted, she better aggravate him to land her in hospital. Even if he gets acquited for sexual assault, at least there is physical assault. Just get the damn guy! Otherwise, no physical injuries, and no witnesses. The guy will walk, and continue on and on to the next and next woman. He'll know exactly where the line is. To trespass a little but not strong enough to get convicted. I have in another thread brought up an incident of a woman who was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend, is financially supporting him and has the freedom to walk from him all the time, is distress by the assault, but she's still in the "cloud of" being in love with him. I believe same shit could have happened to these women until they wake up. But then it's too late. If there were bruises, they have faded. 10 fucking years ago! You can't fucking prove it. But for many who are in state of confusion, it may take forever, before you feel brave enough to speak out. And sometimes, it takes one other woman coming forward first, to give you the courage to do so as well. Let's not forget that even Lady Gaga was raped 10 years ago, and her family only found her about her rape on national TV recently when she identify herself as a rape victim. She never reported it or spoke to anyone about it. If she wants to go after the guy now, will there ever be enough evidence besides her word against his to get him? Obviously not. It just shows the level of difficulty. People expect sexual assault victims to be strong and go straight to authorities immediately, but most of the time, they are too afraid and damaged to do anything at all, but hide and feel ashamed. What about Kesha's current case? It's a disgrace, but at the same time, conviction is all about solid evidence. It's sad but either the woman suck it up and get over it, and move on, or risk their life and land in hospital, so there will be no doubt. Just aggravate the guy. If you want your abuser convicted. Otherwise, if there is no solid evidence, the guy will go free. The ones who knows what they are doing will make sure there is no solid evidence, they will just toe the line.

Awareness -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/27/2016 10:05:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Also those who keep claiming this Jian guy is so famous, and women are out for his money. I never even heard of this damn dude. I actually only know about him because a Canadian highlighted his case to me. No news about this dude around here at all. Nobody knows him! He's relatively famous in Canada, which would be why all the women making claims are Canadian. quote: Like seriously! Why isn't this happening to Leonardo Di Caprio? Or rock stars like Bon Jovi? I mean, those guys are even more popular and possibly have rebuff even more women. Even this doesn't happen to majority of famous men! It's partially time and environment. The social and political environment now is ripe for false claims of sexual assault to be launched by women. That wasn't so in the past. And Leonardo has a very positive social profile and is backed by very expensive lawyers. Plus, any star that big HAS to learn to protect themselves because they're constantly approached by grifters, stalkers and insane whack-jobs. Cosby has been out of the mainstream for a while and has grown old enough so that any suggestion that he may have, at one time, been a sexual being, is now treated with disgust because "old men who desire sex are creepy" whereas "old women who desire sex" are discovering themselves. Plus, Cosby is black - which means that the unconscious racial bias present in the media is always going to play against him. quote: I think men who have multiple women accusing them of sexual assault, HAS sexually assault those women. And I think rich men being accused by multiple women of sexual assault are the target of a shakedown. quote: And trying to remember exact details. I tell you, if someone tells me to recount to them my own sexual assault incident that happen to me 10 years ago. I am sure there is gonna be alot of inconsistencies in my story too, doesn't make my molestation any less real. But I am not gonna be able to prove it! Even back then, there were no witnesses. No physical injuries. Who will believe me when I say he molested me? I would be torn to shreds, just like these women were for coming out and trying to find justice. These women lied and their lies were very clear. They also colluded. In one case there were 5,000 text messages between two women discussing how they were going to 'get Jian'. quote: It sucks. No, it fucking doesn't. An innocent man has been acquitted. That is how the law is supposed to work. quote: But reality is, there is no sure way to prove these things. I said a long time ago, if a woman wants her sexual attacker convicted, she better aggravate him to land her in hospital. Even if he gets acquited for sexual assault, at least there is physical assault. Just get the damn guy! Otherwise, no physical injuries, and no witnesses. The guy will walk, and continue on and on to the next and next woman. He'll know exactly where the line is. To trespass a little but not strong enough to get convicted. The problem is simple. There is very little difference between a consensual sexual encounter and one that is not. And if you're a practitioner of BDSM who uses safe words, then it's possible the BDSM encounter will look non-consensual when it's consensual. Or vice versa. The only way around that is to film the participants before (consenting), during and after (to assess mood after the encounter) to validate that everyone's happy with what has occurred. And who the fuck is going to do that every time they have sex? quote: I have in another thread brought up an incident of a woman who was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend, is financially supporting him and has the freedom to walk from him all the time, is distress by the assault, but she's still in the "cloud of" being in love with him. She sounds mentally ill. Should we rely on her testimony? How do we know she isn't making it all up? Or didn't imagine it? quote: I believe same shit could have happened to these women until they wake up. But then it's too late. If there were bruises, they have faded. 10 fucking years ago! You can't fucking prove it. But for many who are in state of confusion, it may take forever, before you feel brave enough to speak out. And sometimes, it takes one other woman coming forward first, to give you the courage to do so as well. Bullshit. These women actively colluded and they ALL hung out with the guy and tried to get him to fuck them again. Their stories were so fucking poor the defense didn't even have to call them liars - they DEMONSTRATED that they were liars to the court. quote: Let's not forget that even Lady Gaga was raped 10 years ago, and her family only found her about her rape on national TV recently when she identify herself as a rape victim. She never reported it or spoke to anyone about it. Yeah, or she could be making it up. For publicity and shit. Or some other reason. quote: If she wants to go after the guy now, will there ever be enough evidence besides her word against his to get him? Obviously not. It just shows the level of difficulty. People expect sexual assault victims to be strong and go straight to authorities immediately, but most of the time, they are too afraid and damaged to do anything at all, but hide and feel ashamed. And what are victims of false rape claims supposed to do? Go to jail because women should be believed? That's an appalling miscarriage of justice. quote: What about Kesha's current case? It's a disgrace, but at the same time, conviction is all about solid evidence. It's sad but either the woman suck it up and get over it, and move on, or risk their life and land in hospital, so there will be no doubt. Just aggravate the guy. If you want your abuser convicted. Otherwise, if there is no solid evidence, the guy will go free. The ones who knows what they are doing will make sure there is no solid evidence, they will just toe the line. Kesha's trying to get out of a contract. Her story could be true or it could be complete horseshit. There's no way to know and just because a woman's using the "he's a rapist" line of attack, doesn't make it true. Some men rape, that is absolutely true. However, women also lie about rape. That is also true: http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/

Greta75 -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/27/2016 1:08:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness It's partially time and environment. The social and political environment now is ripe for false claims of sexual assault to be launched by women. That wasn't so in the past. So if this is true, we should be seeing more and more famous rich men having multiple women accuse them of sexual assault then! But it's not happening! It's infact quite rare. quote: And Leonardo has a very positive social profile and is backed by very expensive lawyers. Plus, any star that big HAS to learn to protect themselves because they're constantly approached by grifters, stalkers and insane whack-jobs. So Jian is not rich and big enough to have expensive lawyers to deter women from falsely accusing him? quote: Cosby has been out of the mainstream for a while and has grown old enough so that any suggestion that he may have, at one time, been a sexual being, is now treated with disgust because "old men who desire sex are creepy" whereas "old women who desire sex" are discovering themselves. Plus, Cosby is black - which means that the unconscious racial bias present in the media is always going to play against him. Cosby case will be exactly like Jian Case IF they take it to court. Because it all happened ages ago and there is no solid evidence to prove who is telling the truth! quote: And I think rich men being accused by multiple women of sexual assault are the target of a shakedown. Why would you naturally assume just because a man is rich, and targeted by multiple women, that, his definitely innocent? It's exactly the rich and powerful that think they can get away with anything, because they got money and expensive lawyers to get them off any situation. quote: These women lied and their lies were very clear. They also colluded. In one case there were 5,000 text messages between two women discussing how they were going to 'get Jian'. Again, this means nothing. If I was sexually abused and I found out another woman was sexually abused by the same guy. You can be sure I am gonna reach out to her, because she understands what we went through and the fight we will have on our hands against this guy. And we would discuss it together on how to get him. I don't even understand the logic of how is this evidence that it's false? quote: No, it fucking doesn't. An innocent man has been acquitted. That is how the law is supposed to work. Innocent because of lack of evidence against him. But I have strong doubts his truly innocent. quote: The only way around that is to film the participants before (consenting), during and after (to assess mood after the encounter) to validate that everyone's happy with what has occurred. And who the fuck is going to do that every time they have sex? Which is exactly why, the choice of sexual assault victims with no witnesses or physical injuries or video evidence, is either suck it up and get over it, or provoke him to land you in hospital. quote: She sounds mentally ill. Should we rely on her testimony? How do we know she isn't making it all up? Or didn't imagine it? Her case got to the news because she got beat up enough to land in hospital. And obviously alarm bells started ringing, counselors were called in to speak to her, and in her case, it's the usual, she loves the guy and hope he will eventually change. Won't press charges against him. Wants to go back to him. My thread on this, was IF this woman was possibly innately a true masochist to want to still go back to this asshole! Because she was on top of getting regularly verbally abuse and beaten to pulp, she was financially supporting his ass! quote: Bullshit. These women actively colluded and they ALL hung out with the guy and tried to get him to fuck them again. Their stories were so fucking poor the defense didn't even have to call them liars - they DEMONSTRATED that they were liars to the court. Because their incident happened so many freaking years ago, they needed more current evidence. quote: Yeah, or she could be making it up. For publicity and shit. Or some other reason. If she's making it up, then it's for good publicity as it was for a gig empowering survivals of rape to carry on with life stronger. But I highly doubt it is. She did it because she was one of them. quote: And what are victims of false rape claims supposed to do? Go to jail because women should be believed? That's an appalling miscarriage of justice. No, I don't think they should go to jail, the law still has to respect and go by solid evidence to convict. But as I said, unfortunately, there is no sure way of being 100% sure when the incident is reported years after it happened, or if the assault or rape happened under for example blackmail and the woman co-operated and had no injuries. And if all the blackmail was only made verbally with no text evidence. So these women need to aggravate the guy to cause physical injuries to her, so that she has evidence. quote: Kesha's trying to get out of a contract. Her story could be true or it could be complete horseshit. There's no way to know and just because a woman's using the "he's a rapist" line of attack, doesn't make it true. I don't know, Kelly Clarkson said his a creep too, so I don't feel like Kelly Clarkson is someone who will frivolously anyhow accuse the guy of anything. quote: Some men rape, that is absolutely true. However, women also lie about rape. That is also true: http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/ I will definitely support as harsh punishment with same standard of definite evidence to convict rapist, for women who lies about rape. I think lying about rape is an insult and a slap to genuine victims of rape and they should be as heavily punished as rapists.

ManOeuvre -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/27/2016 9:58:08 PM)
quote: (Originally Greta) I will definitely support as harsh punishment with same standard of definite evidence to convict rapist, for women who lies about rape. I think lying about rape is an insult and a slap to genuine victims of rape and they should be as heavily punished as rapists. Hey lady, you and I may feel very differently about this case in particular, but if you stand by your quoted bit above, I have to say I agree. Doesn't even need to go all Hammurabic here, just something. There are laws on the books, regarding making false statements to police officers, perjury, etc, but they are rarely invoked in these cases. Frequently, the only recourse is a civil suit. Woudn't be necessary if people knew they'd find out for sure if orange was the new black when they lie to police.

Greta75 -> RE: Jian Ghomeshi Acquitted. (3/27/2016 10:09:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre Hey lady, you and I may feel very differently about this case in particular, but if you stand by your quoted bit above, I have to say I agree. Doesn't even need to go all Hammurabic here, just something. There are laws on the books, regarding making false statements to police officers, perjury, etc, but they are rarely invoked in these cases. Frequently, the only recourse is a civil suit. Woudn't be necessary if people knew they'd find out for sure if orange was the new black when they lie to police. In Singapore, we throw women in jail for false accusation. But it has to be like either she confessed to it, or solid evidence it's false. If it's just inconclusive evidence that the rape occur, then she wouldn't be thrown in jail. Same as convicting rape or sexual assault. There has to be conclusive evidence that the person was falsely accusing to convict. But definitely, punishments should be super harsh if there is solid evidence. As this is to protect the real victims. We can't have too many stupid women wasting authorities time crying wolf all the time.

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