Do you consider "playful hint dropping" to be topping from bottom?

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Do you consider "playful hint dropping" to be... - 4/4/2016 3:26:07 PM

AAkasha

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Been doing some casual play and am great at screening do-me subs pretty thoroughly. Maybe I am just getting less patient with age.

Question for other dominants: Do you consider a sub doing the ol' "playful hint dropping" to be a form of topping from the bottom? I have one sub that does this. A lot. It's not like during PLAYTIME the guy is asking for things or trying to manipulate me. It's more in casual conversations (which, you know, I like to keep some vanilla time with a guy) -- he will often drop in a double-meaning (if it's text, it includes a smiley, for example).

If it was ONE time that's fine, but it's enough that I get a sense he's trying to nudge me toward what he's looking for in the future (usually a repeat of something we did in the past, and I am perfectly capable of recreating that on my own terms because we both enjoyed it).

Because communication is, of course, key, I did mention this to him -- "You don't have to drop the hints like that or use double meanings about things..." and his response, slightly offended (but ALWAYS polite), "I was just kidding! I thought you would find it funny! I WASNT hinting that I wanted it...You are in charge of course!"

It's a shame because we get along great on many levels, he just can't go through a several hour vanilla interaction without dropping some joke hint, and I can tell he enjoys it, I think it makes him excited, like it's an inside joke with his Mistress or whatever, but I get rubbed the wrong way when I am trying to interact as equals and keep the general chemistry afloat and growing, and he's seemingly looking out for clever "innuendo" which I find tired.

Do you all consider that a form of topping from the bottom, or a symptom of "sub frenzy" or something else?

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 3:31:23 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do you all consider that a form of topping from the bottom, or a symptom of "sub frenzy" or something else?

Maybe he's just bad at playful flirting within the context of a D/s relationship?

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 3:49:47 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do you all consider that a form of topping from the bottom, or a symptom of "sub frenzy" or something else?

Maybe he's just bad at playful flirting within the context of a D/s relationship?

Do other kinky dominants think that this kind of playful stuff (outside of BDSM time, just when interacting vanilla) is funny / fun -- or, is it annoying? Maybe it's me and I am overreacting.

In fact I just recalled a conversation from last night, we were talking about the pressures of my job and some things I needed to vent about, and I mentioned that if something happened today that would cause me a big amount of drama, "I will be angry." Instead of talking to me about that, or providing friendly support, he said something like, "If you get angry, you can always take it out on me!" -- uh, no.

First of all, I know that.

Second, we are talking about real world things causing me strife and I would rather have a listening ear. But shifting it to kink ("oh but I was just JOKING!") it moves away from my concerns and goes to his desires.

Unless, in some cases, other femdoms actually kind of get "excited" if a man makes a remark like that -- when you are already established casual play partners, etc. Do you think it's cute, fun, funny, or just like -- eyeroll?

This is after I told him the day before to not make those kinds of jokes. He just can't help himself.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 3:56:06 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do other kinky dominants think that this kind of playful stuff (outside of BDSM time, just when interacting vanilla) is funny / fun -- or, is it annoying? Maybe it's me and I am overreacting.

M and I have a very playful relationship, but we've also been together a long time. I know him well enough to gauge his mood and if the playfulness is appropriate or not.

But, I don't think that there's a right way or wrong way to do this. If it's not acceptable to you, then it's not. Screw what anyone else thinks.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 4:07:35 PM

FelineRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Second, we are talking about real world things causing me strife and I would rather have a listening ear. But shifting it to kink ("oh but I was just JOKING!") it moves away from my concerns and goes to his desires.

Whether or not you realize it, you just neatly summarized the problem. This is not a kink thing, it's all about his selfishness. He may not even consciously realize it, but his actions say that he couldn't care less about you outside of being his personal kink dispenser.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 4:18:21 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Second, we are talking about real world things causing me strife and I would rather have a listening ear. But shifting it to kink ("oh but I was just JOKING!") it moves away from my concerns and goes to his desires.

Whether or not you realize it, you just neatly summarized the problem. This is not a kink thing, it's all about his selfishness. He may not even consciously realize it, but his actions say that he couldn't care less about you outside of being his personal kink dispenser.

That could be true as well. I think the only way to find out, is to sit down and talk.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/4/2016 5:10:53 PM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Second, we are talking about real world things causing me strife and I would rather have a listening ear. But shifting it to kink ("oh but I was just JOKING!") it moves away from my concerns and goes to his desires.

Whether or not you realize it, you just neatly summarized the problem. This is not a kink thing, it's all about his selfishness. He may not even consciously realize it, but his actions say that he couldn't care less about you outside of being his personal kink dispenser.

Maybe. Or maybe he's not trying to be selfish at all, but genuinely trying to help.

It's going to be really hard for us on the forum to tell whether it's one or the other.

A lot of service oriented submissives will have a very strong need/desire to attempt to 'fix' their Dominant's problems when presented with them. Especially men, because men are already more prone to being 'fixers' instead of 'listeners'.

You're venting because you're frustrates, and he's feeling uncomfortable because in response, he wants to 'do' something to make you feel better. So he might be having the natural impulse to interject humor into the conversation in an attempt to make you smile, because if you smile -> less frustrated, and so he 'helped'.
At the same time the suggestion that you take it out on him can be a genuine one, in the same way, where he's trying to fix your frustration by giving you an outlet for it.

All this could be driven by the fact that he's sincerely trying to make you feel better. Of course, it's evident from your frustration with him that he's not helping, and instead making you even more annoyed instead.
So if he's genuine in his drive to attempt to please you, and he's just going about it in a clumsy annoying way, the solution is for you to assign him with the thing to 'do' in order to actually serve you (which seems to be listening without interjecting silliness). Set him to task on that by explaining how it is you want him to listen, what type of responses are helpful/pleasing, and when to just shut up and let you vent.

If he's actually trying to please, he'll pick up on those cues relatively easily, and will change the way he responds to you venting. You just need to make it clear what it is that he can actually 'do' in the moment to serve you best.

Of course, if he's just being selfish, and trying to indicate that he's bored at listening to you talk about your day and wants to talk about 'sexy' stuff instead by joke-hinting, he'll ignore you when you explain that this doesn't please you, and will continue to do it without skipping a beat, no matter what you say.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/6/2016 8:19:34 PM

ResidentSadist

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For me the ol' "playful hint dropping" is like subtle manipulation. Now begging is another thing entirely and having someone drop to their knees and petition me honestly within protocol shows more sincerity, conviction and commitment to their desire. Hints not a commitment or formal protocol in my way of looking at things.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/6/2016 11:31:46 PM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

For me the ol' "playful hint dropping" is like subtle manipulation. Now begging is another thing entirely and having someone drop to their knees and petition me honestly within protocol shows more sincerity, conviction and commitment to their desire.

I share the same belief, with the understanding that begging in and of itself is no guarantee of supplication. It does afford the submissive a tool to communicate his/her needs, wants and desires, as long as it doesn't cross over into being used as a manipulative tool.

It actually takes an emotionally mature submissive to beg properly, to learn good timing, to beg earnestly without pouting and without becoming annoying, to beg without the built-in expectation that one's wishes will be granted, but with an attitude of wishful compliance, like an art form. I also consider how a Dominant handles this type of interaction to be a test of his/her ability to make a responsive judgment call.

Bad begging is a huge turn-off, as in fakey begging, insistent and persistent begging designed to chip away at the Dominant's resolve as to the granting of a reward or special treat.

To that end, I don't allow begging if a sub is not already in favorable standing. If he isn't, then he doesn't need to beg for disciplinary action, but to wait patiently for swift correction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's a shame because we get along great on many levels, he just can't go through a several hour vanilla interaction without dropping some joke hint,

You are confiding in him as if he were your new bestie, and aside from UllrsIshtar's observations, I think you need to keep in mind that this man is your casual play partner, not a readymade close companion. You are sending him mixed messages, because you say "but I get rubbed the wrong way when I am trying to interact as equals," yet you are not equals. If you were, then you would be available to be his sounding board for several hours, but you aren't, are you?

Even if you weren't his Mistress, I know very few men who have the kind of attention span you are requiring of him. If this degree of emotional intimacy is what you want and need in a play partner, then I am sensing a mismatch.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/7/2016 6:12:11 PM

shiftyw

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I think playful hints are necessary sometimes.

Boyfriend was vanilla when we met- we would have gotten no where if he'd gotten his panties in a twist because I was hinting at what I wanted (or in some cases just saying it).

Now I mostly just hint I want pain and sex and he can guide it from there.

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/7/2016 8:09:42 PM

littleclip

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if theres something that i want to try i bring it up with my owner and discuss it. doing it while playing is not respectful to my owner. the play time is a reward not to be abused or minimalized

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/8/2016 4:13:59 AM

princessmika

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In my experience, annoying as it can be, there are many subs that seem to want you to "read their mind" so-to-speak. Therefore, when you pick up on their hints correctly, they get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

I agree that hints have their place, as shiftyw stated. However, when hints happen too frequently, it can be very frustrating to constantly decipher them... and even worse to decipher them incorrectly. In my opinion, it is okay for a sub to make a direct request. Now... that, I can surely work with and built a lot of anticipation towards that goal, haha. Always, a fine balance between the two is most fun to me ^_^

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RE: Do you consider "playful hint dropping" t... - 4/10/2016 10:15:05 PM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I think playful hints are necessary sometimes.

Boyfriend was vanilla when we met- we would have gotten no where if he'd gotten his panties in a twist because I was hinting at what I wanted (or in some cases just saying it).

Now I mostly just hint I want pain and sex and he can guide it from there.

Absolutely, playfulness is important in any relationship, and playful flirting with sexual innuendo goes both ways at its best.

I think that what RS and I were honing in on has to do with protocol. It doesn't sound as if OP has established protocol with her play sub, other than ranging from unpredictably low to mid-level. If she wants to be flirtatious, then she will. If she likes her play partner to drop playful hints when she is in the mood for them, then fine. But what he is doing is not fine with her, and he does not seem to be getting the message.

Personally, I feel that OP has unreasonable expectations with her new play partner. No offense, but clearly there is lack of productive communication taking place, and not only that but whenever she switches over to treating him like a confidante, this is sending him mixed protocol messages. This is not to say that as her sub he can't become her confidante, but there are definitely fuzzy boundary issues that have to be addressed. He sees her as his Mistress -- How could he not? But at the same time, when she relates to him on a peer level, she becomes the Top to his bottom.

You are a bottom, not a submissive. Your boyfriend Tops you, but he is not your Dom, so neither of you have D/s protocols in place, nor do either of you choose to do so and it's a non-issue with how you relate to one another.

However, slipping in and out of protocol in a D/s couple's communication patterns is confusing to a submissive. A submissive needs strictly defined structures and strictly delineated interrelationship patterns to follow as a template. Interpersonal consistency. All else will ripple outward from that core nexus.

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