RE: Good grief.... (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: Good grief.... (4/7/2016 12:49:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I wonder what the world would be like today, if the heroes I grew up with had claimed trauma and needing counseling instead of standing up against the racism and discrimination.



And I wonder what the world has come to, when a campaign slogan can be described the way you did, there.



Michael



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Good grief.... (4/7/2016 12:53:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I wonder what the world would be like today, if the heroes I grew up with had claimed trauma and needing counseling instead of standing up against the racism and discrimination.



And I wonder what the world has come to, when a campaign slogan can be described the way you did, there.



Michael


I'm not aware of any campaign slogans along those lines. Can you elaborate?



mnottertail -> RE: Good grief.... (4/7/2016 12:57:11 PM)

Hes probably thinking along the lines of those whiney bitch nutsuckers Cruz, Trump et al doing a commercial with this song over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq4aOaDXIfY



DaddySatyr -> RE: Good grief.... (4/7/2016 1:02:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I'm not aware of any campaign slogans along those lines. Can you elaborate?



You asked, nicely, so ... yes.

I referenced:


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


In contrast to Emory offering counseling to students who were "traumatized" by: "#Trump2016".




Your response was:


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I wonder what the world would be like today, if the heroes I grew up with had claimed trauma and needing counseling instead of standing up against the racism and discrimination.



The way that read to me was: "#Trump2016 = racism and discrimination"



Michael



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Good grief.... (4/7/2016 1:11:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
...


Ahh, ok. I understand now, and I accept that my wording accurately implied my distaste for coddling as well as revealing my opinion of Trump.

Yes, I do equate Trump with racism and discrimination. Not so much because he embodies it , but because it appears as if so many who DO embrace it seem to embrace him.

I, personally, find Trump repulsive.

Thank you for clarifying.



Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 6:47:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I'm less concerned with the lack of knowledge to distinguish between a priest and a KKK garment and more concerned with the fear hysteria and demands the university campus "make them feel safe." College isn't just about gaining more knowledge. It is about venturing out of your safe zones and expanding your experiences and minds. Kids seem to be leaving home and expecting the campus staff to be their parents. Fail all over the place. Critical thinking fail, fear hysteria fail, just plain old fail.



"College isn't just about gaining more knowledge. It is about venturing out of your safe zones and expanding your experiences and minds."

Are you being in any ways serious about that assessment, in real life?

I certainly hope not. I agree wholeheartedly on the premise, but the reality is quite another thing. From relatively recent experience.

In any event, what I experienced there was all about purpose of instilling fear of not taking them at their word, along with the very strong promotion and forced (not to mention, quite obstinate) 'working together' in class (whether a student wanted to or not). The clueless teaching the clueless seems to be the latest thing. Yet another thing the latest uni mindset about forcing students to do things than are logically incomprehensible, for purpose of finding those that will just 'do it' and not question. -The exact opposite of what you stated-. ( I swear, I could see [or certainly felt, instinctively] the sign that used to hang above the Nazi concentration camps' entrance transformed/translated, into the new concept- "Mitarbeit Macht Frei."





Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 7:12:43 PM)

And the other thing ...

I had quite already "ventured out of safe zones and expanded my experience and mind," with out drugs or alcohol, long before I got to any college. I couldn't even make it out of HS for that very reason.

The "educational system" is a -suppressor-, certainly not an "expander," of minds. It has ever been thus. Anything but how to do greater harm to society for own 'profit', or increase of fear if not hewing that line, is "what's on the cart," these days.

Yes, even in the US, one can get a stipend to pursue psychology for 30 years, but please ...

Who the fuck came up with all that "work together" thing (and all that "critical thinking" crap -as a subject on its own-) in the first place? Other than Phds (post docs, especially) sponsored by corporations.





WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 7:19:30 PM)

How awful for you! I am an introvert, yet I enjoyed the collaborative assignments.

Now, College seems to be a means to turn young people into indentured servants as they struggle to pay back student loans.
It is all very unfortunate.

As for critical thinking, I fear it isn't taught enough. People seem to have some very illogical ideas.



Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 7:46:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

How awful for you! I am an introvert, yet I enjoyed the collaborative assignments.

Now, College seems to be a means to turn young people into indentured servants as they struggle to pay back student loans.
It is all very unfortunate.

As for critical thinking, I fear it isn't taught enough. People seem to have some very illogical ideas.



"Critical thinking" -should- 'come with the territory' in most any university class. No need to teach it on its own, other than the English department trying for vengeance on the Math or Physics or Econ departments (where they made bad grades on their way to a diploma in uselessness), which, as it turns out, they have succeeded in accomplishing.

The reason that people have such "illogical ideas" is that they read too much from illogical things, like politics or modern psychology or, to some extent, economics, at the modern university. Or went to elementary school in the US, with not much in mind on their own accord to begin with (so, that describes most people, and 'outliers' like me don't matter. I get it). All of which started in HS, or actually, in kindergarten. The push for taking babies away from mom and the family at -six weeks- started at least 20 years ago. For a reason.

If you are among that group, or you can fall in with that in any way, I can understand your mindset, but if that's the case, then I don't even know how to communicate with you.





thompsonx -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 7:48:17 PM)


ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

How awful for you! I am an introvert, yet I enjoyed the collaborative assignments.

Now, College seems to be a means to turn young people into indentured servants as they struggle to pay back student loans.
It is all very unfortunate.

As for critical thinking, I fear it isn't taught enough. People seem to have some very illogical ideas.

Perhaps what we are seeing is some fool who found a way to make a few dollars more than their peers. Who think that $50 per hour job means they are smart enough to have an opinion about something they know nothing about. These would be both the trade school possie and the college boy who only wants to learn how to make money. They feel that subjects like history, anthropology,geography, literature etc are not useful in the "real world" so they crib their way through or hire someone to take their seat in the class and get the grade for them.
Then they say stupid shit like "we resere the right to refuse service to anyone" Had they a clue about the equal protection clause of the 14 ammendment they would realize how phoquing stupid and illegal that statemet is.
When one of those fools parrots "I ain't never owned no slaves so I don't owe dem lazy phoquers anything". A bit of time with a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade would easily disabuse them of this foolishness. Equally foolish are the people who complain about native americans having casinos. Had they taken the time to read the treaties signed with the native americans they would shut the phoque up.



Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 7:57:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

How awful for you! I am an introvert, yet I enjoyed the collaborative assignments.

Now, College seems to be a means to turn young people into indentured servants as they struggle to pay back student loans.
It is all very unfortunate.

As for critical thinking, I fear it isn't taught enough. People seem to have some very illogical ideas.



So, the discussion is now only about how "mitarbeit" affected you vs. how it affected me.

Have I mentioned before how the modern university has made supreme effort to narrow it all down to just this?

But you got it right on the student loans part. I'm sure you are more up to date on that part.





thompsonx -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 8:01:21 PM)


ORIGINAL: Edwurde

I can understand your mindset, but if that's the case, then I don't even know how to communicate with you.

Because:

"Critical thinking" -should- 'come with the territory' in most any university class. No need to teach it on its own, other than the English department trying for vengeance on the Math or Physics or Econ departments (where they made bad grades on their way to a diploma in uselessness), which, as it turns out, they have succeeded in accomplishing.

If my meaning escapes you let me be a bit more direct.
You cannot communicate because you think english is a stupid concept.
I was a physics major but since my uncle was footing the bill I spent about 10 years enjoying all that the university had to offer. Literature, music,philosophy,geography,geology,anthropology,archeology,photography,ceramics,art,history and much more. As a result I have not had a "real job" in 50 years yet I own my own home, automobile and all the acoutrement that makes life enjoyable.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 8:26:41 PM)

Edwuarde,
I'm not going to quote you as it would just clutter things.
I think our outlook stems from our experiences and our experiences differ because they took place at such different time frames.

The world has changed so much in 50 years, and things seem pretty screwed up these days. I can understand your cynicism. We may not be communicating equitably, but the great thing is the boards offer numerous others to converse with.

I'm sorry to say I wasn't following you regarding the removal of children from parents at 6 weeks. I cherished my children and kept them with me as long as possible, even homeschooling them at various times when the school systems failed them. As someone who has always read anything I could get my hands on, I don't believe that illogical thought comes from reading a broad range of topics including the ones you seemed to disdain.

At any rate, I again express regret that you had such a bad experience in school. As for being an outlier, I tend to think outliers have a very unique view of things and interesting perspectives that I find of great value.




Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 8:39:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Edwurde

I can understand your mindset, but if that's the case, then I don't even know how to communicate with you.

Because:

"Critical thinking" -should- 'come with the territory' in most any university class. No need to teach it on its own, other than the English department trying for vengeance on the Math or Physics or Econ departments (where they made bad grades on their way to a diploma in uselessness), which, as it turns out, they have succeeded in accomplishing.

If my meaning escapes you let me be a bit more direct.
You cannot communicate because you think english is a stupid concept.
I was a physics major but since my uncle was footing the bill I spent about 10 years enjoying all that the university had to offer. Literature, music,philosophy,geography,geology,anthropology,archeology,photography,ceramics,art,history and much more. As a result I have not had a "real job" in 50 years yet I own my own home, automobile and all the acoutrement that makes life enjoyable.



With all your college education, even some classes in English, maybe, you seem you have overlooked the fact that, -as explained earlier-, I was well interested in all the things on your list by age 13, or 15, at latest (OK, I did leave out that detail). I didn't need the school (HS or University) to beat me over the head with it, -or try to indoctrinate me in the process-. There's how much your college education did for YOU. No wonder I am dismissive of the putative 'benefits' in that regard.

My book reading escalated ten times after I dropped out of HS. I only went to college (in several attempts through the years) to get something that idiot US employers require, them not having a clue themselves, other than how to jump through the hoops. So that's all they wanted from me. Glad to see your heartfelt support in that process.

I was born understanding literature, but more especially music. Outside of my "major to get a job," I would only take a class at the uni in something I don't know about. Like art, or chemistry. At age 16, I could have told anyone about Bach or Respighi, Ravel or Ives, even, but none of my teachers were interested, which is part of the reason why I was a HS dropout.

Congrats on your good experience at the university, even if different than mine. And thanks for perpetuating the myth that the university is the ONLY way that anyone comes to any knowledge of whatever sort. The assumption there being that humans are natural-born dumbwits, just a burden to parents before they get to that school, never any thought or creativity on their own, prior to that soul-destroying disaster (to some) that is 'The University.'

The whole concept being that parents aren't up to the task, and kids have no creativity at all, until some academic treatment beats them over the head with it.



thompsonx -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 8:47:07 PM)

ORIGINAL: Edwurde

I was born understanding literature, but more especially music.

Yeah right[8|]


And thanks for perpetuating the myth that the university is the ONLY way that anyone comes to any knowledge of whatever sort.

If you could read and understand english you would not have taken that from my post since that is not what I said but rather what you wanted to hear to justify your anti-intellectualism.







Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 9:14:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Edwurde

I was born understanding literature, but more especially music.

Yeah right[8|]


And thanks for perpetuating the myth that the university is the ONLY way that anyone comes to any knowledge of whatever sort.

If you could read and understand english you would not have taken that from my post since that is not what I said but rather what you wanted to hear to justify your anti-inteledtualism.

I am not 'anti-intellectual.' (or whatever-the-fuck-it-was you were trying to type [finally! someone worse than me!]), I am 'anti-indoctronation.'

And that is what is going on now.

I already got pounded in my math and econ classes, but I survived (this more recently), because I wanted to 'expand the mind,' etc. I had the 'humanities ' thing down pat, at age 15, and your jealousy in that matter (like my college instructors in those classes) doesn't mean squat to me.

I can't remember what took in my music theory classes (too long ago) other than the teacher hated me for having perfect pitch memory, but the worst advice I got was from him. Because he hated me for having 'perfect pitch memory,;





Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 9:35:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Edwuarde,
I'm not going to quote you as it would just clutter things.
I think our outlook stems from our experiences and our experiences differ because they took place at such different time frames.

The world has changed so much in 50 years, and things seem pretty screwed up these days. I can understand your cynicism. We may not be communicating equitably, but the great thing is the boards offer numerous others to converse with.

I'm sorry to say I wasn't following you regarding the removal of children from parents at 6 weeks. I cherished my children and kept them with me as long as possible, even homeschooling them at various times when the school systems failed them. As someone who has always read anything I could get my hands on, I don't believe that illogical thought comes from reading a broad range of topics including the ones you seemed to disdain.

At any rate, I again express regret that you had such a bad experience in school. As for being an outlier, I tend to think outliers have a very unique view of things and interesting perspectives that I find of great value.




If I came across as having opinion that "reading a broad range of things" constitutes a 'downgrade' of humanity, then I miscommunicated, and if that's the case, then more on my own impetuosity, not fault of the university. My better communication skills (as much of anything else) came about earlier in life. Thanks for your patience, in any event.

There are so many jobs, 'positions,' for which the "teamwork" thing has no consequence, but the current 'implement' of university (and, unfortunately, that's what the university seems to have become, lately, an 'implement') has it that the 'mitarbeit' thing is far more important than the underlying skill set.

Does that not scare you?

BTW, the taking away of babies from moms at six weeks has been going on in the US for at least 25 years. And it's 'daycare' immediately after (as if not from thr beginning).





thompsonx -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 10:03:31 PM)


ORIGINAL: Edwurde
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


I was born understanding literature, but more especially music.

Yeah right[8|]


And thanks for perpetuating the myth that the university is the ONLY way that anyone comes to any knowledge of whatever sort.

If you could read and understand english you would not have taken that from my post since that is not what I said but rather what you wanted to hear to justify your anti-inteledtualism.

I am not 'anti-intellectual.' (or whatever-the-fuck-it-was you were trying to type [finally! someone worse than me!]), I am 'anti-indoctronation.'

Of course teadhing that 2+2=4 (or any other agreed upon fact) is really indoctrination.

And that is what is going on now.

Just where is this going on now...please be specific.

I already got pounded in my math and econ classes, but I survived (this more recently), because I wanted to 'expand the mind,' etc. I had the 'humanities ' thing down pat, at age 15, and your jealousy in that matter (like my college instructors in those classes) doesn't mean squat to me.

I can't remember what took in my music theory classes (too long ago) other than the teacher hated me for having perfect pitch memory, but the worst advice I got was from him. Because he hated me for having 'perfect pitch memory,;

What exactly does having perfect pitch have to do with music theory? Do you think that because you have perfect pitch that means you know all about music theory?
You see one is a mechanical skill the other an intellectual one.
Kinda like guys I knew in a building trades class that had been swinging a hammer since they were 15 but could not draw or read blue prints but felt that their talent with a hammer meant that they did not need to learn to draw or read blue prints. If you do not wish to learn something then why take the class?
If you wish to master something then you must master all aspects of it...otherwise you are nothing but an savant ("The most dramatic examples of savant syndrome occur in individuals who score very low on IQ tests, while demonstrating exceptional skills or brilliance in specific areas, such as rapid calculation, art, memory, or musical ability.")





Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 10:31:26 PM)

Thanks for engaging (finally) in any real sense, tompsonx.

Of course having perfect pitch and having capacity for understanding basic music theory are two different things. Your humanities stuff (but more important, your basic mind), had you latch on to the distinction and difference there. You can blame your innate good mind and congenital creativity on the college you went to, if you choose that excuse.

Too bad you were such a dumb shit before you got to any school. (Which I seriously doubt.)

"What exactly does having perfect pitch have to do with music theory? Do you think that because you have perfect pitch that means you know all about music theory?
You see one is a mechanical skill the other an intellectual one."

OK, so even a bigger dumb shit after.

So, yeah, neither my Phd music theory instructor or myself (born with pitch memory, made straight A's for one year of music theory, where sight singing/reading was only 15% of the course work ... but didn't you know that already?) could have ever come to to that realization with out your erudite and so eloquent explication otherwise. Hey let me call him up and give him the news. You are an English major, right? He'll be so impressed. We will all take your word for anything in such matters, no question.

"Critical Thinking" at its best. Send your checks to the University, folks.




Edwurde -> RE: Good grief.... (4/8/2016 10:43:19 PM)


PS

For people that need another four years, at the college level, to actually understand their own language ...

OK, I'll just stop here.



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