RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird.

RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (Full Version)

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Nnanji -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 9:49:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Phydeaux! quote: Argentina borrowed money. It then went on a socialist binge and destroyed its econoomy like every socialist nation does eventually Using Argentina's financial crises to support your socialism bashing and championing of free market ideology (neoLiberalism) does not mesh with other opinions. The 1998–2002 Argentine Great Depression was an economic depression in Argentina which began in the third quarter of 1998 and lasted until the second quarter of 2002.[1][2][3][4][5][6] It almost immediately followed the 1974–1990 Great Depression after a brief period of rapid economic growth.[5] The depression, which began due to the Russian and Brazilian financial crises, caused widespread unemployment, riots, the fall of the government, a default on the country's foreign debt, the rise of alternative currencies and the end of the peso's fixed exchange rate to the US dollar.[1] The economy shrank by 28 percent from 1998 to 2002.[2][6] In terms of income, over 50 percent of Argentines were poor and 25 percent, indigent; seven out of ten Argentine children were poor at the depth of the crisis in 2002.[1][6] By the first half of 2003, however, GDP growth had returned, surprising economists and the business media,[7][8] and the economy grew by an average of 9% for five years.[9][10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression#cite_note-Argentina-Default-IMF-Depression-1 Argentina was hardly a socialist country. In fact its social security system had been privatized. See also: http://cepr.net/documents/publications/argentina_2002_09_03.htm I don't think it's socialism bashing so much as pointing out the totally dismal failure of socialism to do anything it says it will. Pointing out history is not bashing.

vincentML -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 10:48:53 AM)
Nnanji . . . . quote: I don't think it's socialism bashing so much as pointing out the totally dismal failure of socialism to do anything it says it will. Pointing out history is not bashing. In my opinion it is 'bashing' when he uses the failure of a market economy nation to criticize socialism. Just absurd.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 11:35:47 AM)
quote: pointing out the totally dismal failure of socialism to do anything it says it will. Pointing out history is not bashing. True, however you are not pointing out history here, as there is no socialism involved. Please take the time to learn what the words you are using mean.

Phydeaux -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 12:49:46 PM)
Which is what I posted a page ago

Phydeaux -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 1:03:05 PM)
Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'. Equally endemic to socialist nations is an inability to be competitive. And the destruction of wealth. Kartchner borrowed money to fund a huge left his wet dream and then predictably defaulted. What did mr. Rogers rails at isnt Argentina defaulting, but rather bondholders having the effrontery to actually want their money. How dare they. How dare they complain Lefties beat them up and take their stuff.

Nnanji -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 2:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: pointing out the totally dismal failure of socialism to do anything it says it will. Pointing out history is not bashing. True, however you are not pointing out history here, as there is no socialism involved. Please take the time to learn what the words you are using mean. It was a conversation between me and vincentml. In the past he mentioned his personal guiding philosophy is liberation theology. My comment was directed at his specific comment. Clearly, you are stepping into a place where, in fact, we didn't ask your opinion. Second, you're assuming you know what I do and do not know. You should probably take your head out of your proverbial appendage.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 2:52:33 PM)
quote: Endemic to socialist nations There are no socialist nations. Like I said, learn the meaning of the words you are using.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 2:53:46 PM)
LOL

MrRodgers -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 3:26:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'. Equally endemic to socialist nations is an inability to be competitive. And the destruction of wealth. Kartchner borrowed money to fund a huge left his wet dream and then predictably defaulted. What did mr. Rogers rails at isnt Argentina defaulting, but rather bondholders having the effrontery to actually want their money. How dare they. How dare they complain Lefties beat them up and take their stuff. I honestly would have thought this beneath you or least not so intellectually dishonest. The Argentinian OP had nothing to do with lefties or socialism. (and in fact it was the 'righties' bankers who resorted to violent intervention...seizing the Argentinian ship) It had to do only with the way the modern banker/capitalist (rightist) legal regime in the US, can be manipulated and not just to get one's money back with a reasonable return but used to extort an 1100% return and...at the huge expense of other lenders and as usual...society at large. The MOB would be proud of 'em and love to have such leverage. Obviously as the prevailing and dominating new American culture as reflected by the contempt found in the power of the 'righties' bankers/capitalist here, there is a move by the rest of western civilization to stop this extortion and the US is one of only 6 dissenters. Why am I not surprised when I am debating a person who would bite the hand of your own liberators from such venality and greed found in those whose virtues of the banker/corporate rulers of America, fleecing our own treasury as we type.

mnottertail -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/29/2016 5:04:29 PM)
Just remember, if you make a law its ok to sue other nations for whatever reason, they have the same laws, and we have been bery bery bery busy bois out there.

Phydeaux -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/30/2016 9:01:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: Endemic to socialist nations There are no socialist nations. Like I said, learn the meaning of the words you are using. Yes, you saying so disproves it absolutely. (ROFL). Funny - did you send that same memo to Bernie Sanders?

dcnovice -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/30/2016 9:12:21 AM)
FR Do I recall correctly that Ronald Reagan presided over the US's transformation from the world's leading creditor to its most in-the-red debtor? Never really thought of him as a socialist before.

Phydeaux -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (4/30/2016 9:21:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'. Equally endemic to socialist nations is an inability to be competitive. And the destruction of wealth. Kartchner borrowed money to fund a huge left his wet dream and then predictably defaulted. What did mr. Rogers rails at isnt Argentina defaulting, but rather bondholders having the effrontery to actually want their money. How dare they. How dare they complain Lefties beat them up and take their stuff. I honestly would have thought this beneath you or least not so intellectually dishonest. The Argentinian OP had nothing to do with lefties or socialism. Oh? So you say the original post had nothing to do with socialism, eh? let me quote .. why.. you. quote: Oh but they are socialists...can't you tell ? Only 6 countries voted against a similar measure at the UN and of course...the US was 1 of those 6. quote: (and in fact it was the 'righties' bankers who resorted to violent intervention...seizing the Argentinian ship) Proving once again that you are an extreme leftist hack. The term 'seized' does not mean taken by violent means. The vessel was seized through due process of law. The bondholder got a court to order the ship held. No violence, all perfectly legal. quote: It had to do only with the way the modern banker/capitalist (rightist) legal regime in the US, can be manipulated and not just to get one's money back with a reasonable return but used to extort an 1100% return and...blah blah blah Factually wrong on all counts. A bond is a promise to pay. You pay the face amount of the bond, plus the defined interest rate. No alteration of the face amount nor interest rate occurred. Secondly - you don't get to decide what reasonable is. You pay what you are legally obligated to do so. In this case argentina is paying the bondholders full value - plus their legal fees. Which I understand are over 7 figures now since Argentina has tried to welch out of the debt repeatedly. quote: at the huge expense of other lenders and as usual...society at large. Yep. You got borrowed the money, which was stupid. Pay the price. quote: The MOB would be proud of 'em and love to have such leverage. The leftie mob that wants to, to quote zonie, kill you and take your stuff? Deprive you of free spreech, throw you in jail for being a climate denier. Frankly, I'm glad you don't have that power. Yet. quote: Obviously as the prevailing and dominating new American culture as reflected by the contempt found in the power of the 'righties' bankers/capitalist here, there is a move by the rest of western civilization to stop this extortion and the US is one of only 6 dissenters. One is all it takes. Brush up on your UN operating principles.

vincentML -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 8:22:50 AM)
SOCIALISM The true meaning of the word is constantly distorted in use by the inordinate fear propagandizes by the moneyed elite and their lackeys. How many political/social systems in the world meet these definitions? Not many if any. Even those great bugaboos Russia and China do not meet the true definitions. The moneyed elite throw the word about loosely in a McCarthyite attempt to keep blue collared types cowed while the elites suck up more wealth. Tell me where Argentina fits into these definitions. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods a system of society or group living in which there is no private property a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done imo, you do not know the difference between socialism and social democracy; you bandy the word about to scare the 99% in service to the 1.0% Your masters would be proud of your betrayal of your class.

Nnanji -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 8:32:32 AM)
Edited.

blnymph -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 8:32:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'. ... which was exactly what was done by the imperialist conservative Reichskanzler Bismarck as part of his anti-socialist laws in the 1880s Social security, state pensions, health insurance, invalidity insurance this was conservative politics of the 19th century

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 11:23:15 AM)
quote: Yes, you saying so disproves it absolutely. (ROFL). OK< how about you list off as few of these "socialist countries" quote: Funny - did you send that same memo to Bernie Sanders? He is not a socialist, he is a social democrat. Again, very different things.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 11:25:40 AM)
Shhh, don't confuse him with any actual facts.

WickedsDesire -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 12:28:51 PM)
I don't really understand the thread or its purpose America debt 19 trillion worthless USA dollars (and the rest) and China's wee bitch. And countries borrowed money from that bankrupt nation. USA restructures its debt all the time as they cannot pay their dues and sink depper into the mire of utter shite. 1,500 percent I believe seems a fair return for the bankers loaning paper dollars - "Paper" is where it does not actually exist, a complete figment. Save in the minds of gluttonous rapists, or the top of the pyramid. $2.28 billion for its investment of about $177 million, a total return of 1,180 percent. (Argentina also paid the legal fees for the vultures.) And they hear the voice of god that lot, out lord, a white man, who fed thousands with kipper and loaf of bread if i remember my scripture correctly...in god we trust - bunch of fuking deluded assholes with no concept of actual reality Every financial crash, global crisis, ever, is caused by: 1. capitalist pigdawgs raping everyone else of their gold, shoe money and cake money 2. iconoclastic savages from the desert 3. that one time wicked drank 30 bottles of Chardonnay and could only invoke a meagre 300 hundred orgasms before the Chardonnay droop took hold they called that one wicked Monday

Phydeaux -> RE: Insulting the vultures of capitalism...I mean the bird. (5/1/2016 1:00:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML SOCIALISM The true meaning of the word is constantly distorted in use by the inordinate fear propagandizes by the moneyed elite and their lackeys. How many political/social systems in the world meet these definitions? Not many if any. Even those great bugaboos Russia and China do not meet the true definitions. The moneyed elite throw the word about loosely in a McCarthyite attempt to keep blue collared types cowed while the elites suck up more wealth. Tell me where Argentina fits into these definitions. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods a system of society or group living in which there is no private property a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done imo, you do not know the difference between socialism and social democracy; you bandy the word about to scare the 99% in service to the 1.0% Your masters would be proud of your betrayal of your class. Oh I don't know. How about confiscation of private pension plains then funds of which were then added to the countries social security? Nationalization of industry? Argentina regularly cycles between corrupt elites and socialist governments that try to redress the matter who spend the country into bankruptcy and disintegration followed by a military junta that yields to corrupt elites. Hipolito Yrigoyen. Socialist. Peron. Socialist and Strongman (2 for 1). So the cycle repeats. Menem lead to free spending and argentina collapsed in 2000/2001. Followed by the socialists Kirchners. The amusing bit is that you think Argentina is that it hasn't happened. Somehow you think Kirchner didn't national YPF? Somehow you think Kirchner didn't extend state control over the economy - despite the fact that hundreds of his speeches claimed to do just that. Somehow you think they haven't nationalized the airline, or set up new state companies. Somehow you think they didn't take control of the power generation, natural gas. And while they don't own the farms outright, farmers may only sell at prices the government sets, and to customers the government allows. If that isn't controlling the means of production - what is? Other state owned industries include Telem, the railways, CEATSA So yes, Argentina is in the middle of another socialist cycle, that once more has spent the country into oblivion.

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