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RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 8:05:12 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Can't we not vote for either and write in the name of our choice?


I always thought you could pretty much write whatever you want in a voting card. Including, "Fuck the government" But just make sure you don't write it in the box of the person whom you don't like. Or it would be counted as a vote for that person.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 8:15:25 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Fact is a noun.

Dictionary.com
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your belief has no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by cinnamongirl are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.

1530-40; < Latin factum something done, deed, noun use of neuter of factus done, past participle of facere to do1

as he hasnt won the presidency, it is not FACT in any acceptable definition.


Dictionary.com.
Definition number 2

No questions please.

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:05:01 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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God you people are funny, all repeating this poll or that poll to try "prove" your guy/gal will win. The election is months away, Hell you can't even be sure any of the candidates will be alive by the time November rolls around, yet you are all pontificating away as if it is past history.
At this point, anybody who says anybody WILL win is an idiot, the best a sane person would say is "I think X will win" or "I think it likely that X will win".
And in that spirit....
I think that Clinton will win

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:06:42 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Definition number 2

No questions please.

Actually definition 2 is one that specifically does NOT apply in this situation. You mighty have a shot with definition 4, but even that is a stretch.

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(in reply to Cinnamongirl67)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:08:41 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

God you people are funny, all repeating this poll or that poll to try "prove" your guy/gal will win. The election is months away, Hell you can't even be sure any of the candidates will be alive by the time November rolls around, yet you are all pontificating away as if it is past history.
At this point, anybody who says anybody WILL win is an idiot, the best a sane person would say is "I think X will win" or "I think it likely that X will win".
And in that spirit....
I think that Clinton will win


Oh sweet pea, don't you know it is already history?
The insane might know something you don't.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:19:51 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Can't we not vote for either and write in the name of our choice?

That sounds like a decent plan to me...

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(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:28:08 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Fact is a noun.

Dictionary.com
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your belief has no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by cinnamongirl are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.

1530-40; < Latin factum something done, deed, noun use of neuter of factus done, past participle of facere to do1

as he hasnt won the presidency, it is not FACT in any acceptable definition.


Dictionary.com.
Definition number 2

No questions please.


2. something known to exist or to have happened:
It doesnt exist simply because.....
he isnt president....
and he hasnt been president before so it hasnt happened.
FAIL
No question asked, none needed. Just giving you the FACTS
Thank you both :)


_____________________________

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<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Cinnamongirl67)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:56:43 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
God you people are funny, all repeating this poll or that poll to try "prove" your guy/gal will win. The election is months away, Hell you can't even be sure any of the candidates will be alive by the time November rolls around, yet you are all pontificating away as if it is past history.
At this point, anybody who says anybody WILL win is an idiot, the best a sane person would say is "I think X will win" or "I think it likely that X will win".
And in that spirit....
I think that Clinton will win


Honestly, I think so, too. I really don't endorse Hillary in any way and I think some of her policies are going to be major screw ups, but it's already such a 'lesser of two evils' thing, I could absolutely see her pulling the vote. Just from what I observe, there are a good number of Republicans out there willing to jump the party ticket and vote Democrat. I'm not seeing a whole lot in reverse.

Either way, we're probably all screwed.



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(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 4:09:31 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Vote for the candidate that best represents your beliefs, regardless of what party affiliation (don't limit yourself to just the big two parties) that candidate holds.
That's what you should do every election. That's what I'm going to do (means I wasn't always doing that previously) from now on. No more voting against someone. I'm only going to vote for someone.

If we had a decent turnout this election (> 65%), the next election, the next election, and so on with more voters showing up...then I think we could get eventually get rid of our 'Winner-take-all' voting system, after many, many, MANY, election cycles. Although, we would likely fall back into a two party system anyhow. Our current election process and politics has me completely hopeless for my future. I think its going to be quite a while before we start seeing positive change.
CGP Grey has some great videos on voting, and politics, in general. Here's a video explaining the problem with voting for someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo, which is a good idea in theory. I would highly suggest checking out his other videos as well.


Interesting video. Thanks for the link. I watched the "Alternate Vote" video, too. If you think people have reservations about the accuracy of today's voting, I can't even imagine how much worse it would be with AV.

I think I have another idea that might work better.
    1. Anyone who wants to run, can run.
    2. No parties at all. Period.
    3. 1-3 "primaries" to reduce the race down to the most popular handful of candidates.
    4. Those final X number of candidates run.
    5. The winner of the final vote is President, and the runner up is VP.







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What I support:

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  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Blank101)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 4:12:19 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
FR
I never understood the logic of not voting.
Why do we even want the right to vote who we want as leaders if we don't even want to vote?


It's not that they don't want to vote, it's that there isn't a candidate they want to vote for.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 4:15:33 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
So according to Fox news. The number of democrats that will vote Trump, doubles the number of Republicans who will vote for Hillary.


So, Trump just gained 4 supporters to Hillary's 2?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 6:57:25 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's not that they don't want to vote, it's that there isn't a candidate they want to vote for.

There has to be someone they are willing to vote for. Not necessary to vote for the main two parties.

Even if the one they voted for has no chance of winning this term, but if he sees that his third place or whatever, it will encourage him to run for next term and next term, until he builts enough support as an independent to win. Anything is possible.

It starts with votes to encourage the individual that you think is fit to run this country! Everybody should play a part in helping the one who they feel is suitable for running the country become President. It's like staying home and feeling defeated that the one you want is never gonna win, this is not gonna help encourage that person or help the goal of having someone you like come true. Regardless how slim their efforts may be. That is exerting whatever little power and privilege they have to put in their vote for their preferential person.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/5/2016 7:01:36 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 7:33:18 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Can't we not vote for either and write in the name of our choice?


You could, but that won't do much to end the two-party system we have now. Voting for a third party could, conceivably, do exactly that: with just 5% of the votes, third parties are eligible for federal election funds.

If you're seriously considering actually throwing your vote away why not do something that could benefit the country by casting your vote for a third-party candidate? They will more than likely not win but the mere act of voting for them could change the next election drastically.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 7:46:21 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Vote for the candidate that best represents your beliefs, regardless of what party affiliation (don't limit yourself to just the big two parties) that candidate holds.
That's what you should do every election. That's what I'm going to do (means I wasn't always doing that previously) from now on. No more voting against someone. I'm only going to vote for someone.

If we had a decent turnout this election (> 65%), the next election, the next election, and so on with more voters showing up...then I think we could get eventually get rid of our 'Winner-take-all' voting system, after many, many, MANY, election cycles. Although, we would likely fall back into a two party system anyhow. Our current election process and politics has me completely hopeless for my future. I think its going to be quite a while before we start seeing positive change.
CGP Grey has some great videos on voting, and politics, in general. Here's a video explaining the problem with voting for someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo, which is a good idea in theory. I would highly suggest checking out his other videos as well.


Interesting video. Thanks for the link. I watched the "Alternate Vote" video, too. If you think people have reservations about the accuracy of today's voting, I can't even imagine how much worse it would be with AV.

I think I have another idea that might work better.
    1. Anyone who wants to run, can run.
    2. No parties at all. Period.
    3. 1-3 "primaries" to reduce the race down to the most popular handful of candidates.
    4. Those final X number of candidates run.
    5. The winner of the final vote is President, and the runner up is VP.





Desi -you're a good guy - but you are not considering that parties play an active, important role. Even if you tried to ban them, they would reform out of necessity.

Do you know how hard it is to qualify for the ballot in each state? Research that one issue and you will understand why parties exist.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 7:55:09 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
Interesting idea -

People are floating Newt as Trump VP. There's a lot to recommend it. That said - I don't think it will happen.

Newt shores up trump with the conservatives. A group that will hold their nose and vote for him, regadless. He is a respected member and would boost ties with insiders - but that kind of runs opposite this year, doesn't it.

Frankly, a few weeks before the convention Trumpshould run the idea of Bernie sanders as VP. Bernie will shoot it down - but that lets trump appeal to young voters - shows himself as a non-demagog, who cares about democrat issues. a Few no cost political points.

Other than that - trump needs a woman, and someone mainstream. Condi Rice, or Elizabeth Dole-esque. The problem is most of the other good candidates don't bring much besides gender. Collins puts maine in play (yay!) Kelly ayotte, New Hampshire....

Hmmm.. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. Is actually a brilliant choice. Puts florida (a must win) in play, will pick you up a few points of hispanic - and defuses cries of racism.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 8:44:25 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
Good article, myopic ending.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-is-walking-into-donald-trumps-trap/2016/05/04/1cbe2722-120a-11e6-81b4-581a5c4c42df_story.html?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na

The problem is in the conclusion - the writer has indeed spotted a huge problem with hillary's campaign - and trump is smart enough to capitalize on it.
The mistake is the antedote. Liberals push the 'fair' word - and I think that if you were to ask what the american electorate wants - outside the democrat party - the last thing most americans want is more democratic ideas of fairness. You know, the kind that results in beergate. IN dropping charges against black panthers. Ferguson fairness.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:37:11 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
I actually have no idea which VP will benefit Trump the most, but there was this black lady that looked like Condoleezza Rice that was one of the suggested candidates. Maybe that lady would be good! Minority and Black and Female! Perfect for the job!

Great! I can't find her name! As I watched it in a video. And now I can't find the video!



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/5/2016 9:47:37 PM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 9:59:55 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Interesting idea -

People are floating Newt as Trump VP. There's a lot to recommend it. That said - I don't think it will happen.

Newt shores up trump with the conservatives. A group that will hold their nose and vote for him, regadless. He is a respected member and would boost ties with insiders - but that kind of runs opposite this year, doesn't it.

Frankly, a few weeks before the convention Trumpshould run the idea of Bernie sanders as VP. Bernie will shoot it down - but that lets trump appeal to young voters - shows himself as a non-demagog, who cares about democrat issues. a Few no cost political points.

Other than that - trump needs a woman, and someone mainstream. Condi Rice, or Elizabeth Dole-esque. The problem is most of the other good candidates don't bring much besides gender. Collins puts maine in play (yay!) Kelly ayotte, New Hampshire....

Hmmm.. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. Is actually a brilliant choice. Puts florida (a must win) in play, will pick you up a few points of hispanic - and defuses cries of racism.



Cheney was the head of Bush XLIII's VP search committee. Carson is the head of Trump's. I would LOVE to see Dr. Carson get the nod. I think it would give him time to "bone up" on the things he needs to know and on the ins-and-outs of being a politician.

I never bought this crap about Trump not being a politician. Business, especially at his level, is ALL ABOUT politics.

Carson could use the 4 years as Veep to his advantage. Let's face it, the VP has one job: To wake up and say: "How's the president feeling, today?" (Apologies to Harry S. Truman)



Michael


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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/5/2016 10:33:28 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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Trump already said Carson is not interested in VP. Also he wants someone with political experience as VP, to compliment his lack of political experience.

He needs someone who can compliment where he lacks. His gonna hire the right guy.

Ben Carson needs to be heading his health care department, on how to improve health care in America and design a better replacement for Obama care. That's his specialty.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Clinton vs. Trump, 2016 - 5/6/2016 1:02:17 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Do you know how hard it is to qualify for the ballot in each state? Research that one issue and you will understand why parties exist.

And did you realize that it is the two major parties that decide what is needed to qualify, and that the rules are much, MUCH easier for those two parties?

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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 60
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