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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 10:45:44 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Well, yes, but if you understand the terms you're using, that means you can't dismiss everybody who disagrees with you as a bunch of Nazis, doesn't it? You killjoy, you.

This is true.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 10:53:06 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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What does it mean to you?

To me? Well I use the actual meaning, which is the social perks and advantages that society in western cultures extend to white people over non-white people, and the general attitude of many white people that such advantages do not in fact exist.
I come from a mixed race family, part white and part native, and since I pass as white, I have many subtle social advantages over my cousins who do not pass as white. That is my white privilege, it is something that is due me simply because I appear white, however I would be far less likely to recognize it if I did not have close family who did not appear white.
To be absolutely correct, the term should be "majority privilege" as that is what it actually is, and it exists in other cultures where whites do not predominate (except of course it is not the whites that get the advantages in that case).

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 11:30:38 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Myself I lean to the ...Like me...privilege. Rather than white which is more racist. I think color has little to do with it. The way we act and talk I believe has more to do with it than skin color. This is different than racial but still just as discriminatory.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 12:05:43 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		No, it is definitely racially based the world over, it just so happens that in the west it is the white population that gets the privilege and since the term was coined in the west it is "white privilege"
quote:

The way we act and talk I believe has more to do with it than skin color.

I'm afraid it generally does not, it may in individual interactions, but that is not what the term refers to, it refers to society as a whole, and societies tend to give advantages to the majority population, with the exception of such situations as colonialism where the minority enforces it's privileges by force, but even then they are usually enforcing the privileges they are extended in their homeland where they are the majority.
A good example of this effect is Japan, where racial Japanese have enormous real world advantages over those deemed to be Korean, even though those Koreans have never lived in Korea and their ancestors were brought to Japan long ago. They are, for all practical purposes Japanese, they have only ever lived in Japan, speak no language other than Japanese, and yet they are not accepted as fully Japanese. There it is not a question of white privilege, but rather Japanese privilege.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 1:56:58 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		In my area... a very mixed group... the privilege is financial and social. Many African Americans are included along with Asians and to a much lesser extent Hispanics. In general race is not dividing at all... African Americans in my group have a very different opinion of the unrest in Ferguson than the black live matter movement would have you believe. Whites have little respect for extreme out state right wing Christians.

I guess we will have to disagree. I can only say people that act like me... think like me and talk like me... tend to not divide each other by skin color. We as a group are privileged but without fault. Otherwise we just try to live our lives as well as we can and associate freely with who we choose...and that choice is more often than not... others like me. If this is privilege... then it is not by race.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:14:28 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I do think in the big picture racial groups do tend to associate within their groups… but I believe this has more to do with what they have in common socially and also financially. Because of past and present discrimination, separate from this so called privilege, there is little movement between these groups.

BUT

When there is movement skin color or race is not what determines privilege. I believe the above is where the misconception of race determining privilege comes from.

I do respect your opinion ThatDizzyChick and you could be right... but i disagree and hope that I am right... it would be a better world if i am.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/10/2016 2:17:58 PM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:17:09 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		Again you are misunderstanding. It is not an individual thing, it is a societal thing. The western culture as a whole extends certain social benefits to white people as a whole. That does not mean that every individual experiences the full effect of those privileges, but only that that segment of society as a whole does.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:26:38 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Again you are misunderstanding. It is not an individual thing, it is a societal thing. The western culture as a whole extends certain social benefits to white people as a whole. That does not mean that every individual experiences the full effect of those privileges, but only that that segment of society as a whole does.


In my experience Americans don't 'do' the social worldview as much as people do elsewhere in the anglophone countries, TDC. Therefore anything based in the social sciences, your own knowledge of political science included, obviously, means you're going to lose large numbers of people here unless you're prepared to take a *lot* of steps back on occasion. (I'm sorry if that appears patronising to US readers here, but there it is.)

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:41:01 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		PeonForHer it seems to me the happenings in Europe over the last few years just show you and I and our societies are much the same. There is no social superiority in the old countries.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:44:19 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

it would be a better world if i am

it would be, but you aren't, which is a real pity. But unfortunately we as a species are innately racist, it is an inherent aspect of our tribal nature, and while individually we may not be overtly racist, in large groups our basic natures have more sway, and our innate covert racism tends to manifest itself.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:45:56 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		This is true Peon, however I don't feel any great need to play dumb for the benefit of those I am conversing with.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:47:16 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

PeonForHer it seems to me the happenings in Europe over the last few years just show you and I and our societies are much the same. There is no social superiority in the old countries.

Actually, that has nothing to do with what he said.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 2:56:01 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Well in the end our definitions of privilege are not really important... they have much the same result. Be it racism or concentration of wealth it is a world problem that must be addressed.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:02:28 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

This is true Peon, however I don't feel any great need to play dumb for the benefit of those I am conversing with.


I'm not at all saying 'play dumb'. I'm saying that there's a cultural difference that I'm still, even now, getting used to. Many people here will reach for a bit of cod psychology, or sometimes anthropology ... but social sciences - it can often feel as though they don't exist. Or, even if they do exist, they're not worth anything.

And always, always remember: *never* quote Marx. Marx was wrong in absolutely everything he ever said. Handy tip.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:05:43 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Marx was wrong in absolutely everything he ever said.

Actually as a non-Marxist communist, I am more or less in agreement with that. :)

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:07:02 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Well in the end our definitions of privilege are not really important

Except that we are discussing "white privilege" so yeah they are kinda central to the discussion.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:15:08 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Marx was wrong in absolutely everything he ever said.

Actually as a non-Marxist communist, I am more or less in agreement with that. :)


There are very few Marxist communists around these days, never mind other sorts. And you're into spiritual stuff (want of a better phrase), too.

You are *odd*, TDC. So, what variety of communism do you go for, then?

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:30:04 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Once again you say that as if they are mutually exclusive. a commie is just a question of degree along the left liberal axis.

LOL
There is no "left liberal axis"
quote:

I previously provided quotes proving you were wrong.

No you didn't. Case closed.


What is it with lefties allergies to facts? You maintain the left and liberal have specific concrete meanings. I have given you quotes that show that lefty and liberal have meanings that are culturally dependent.

Quoting wiki: Liberalism can mean different things in different contexts, sometimes on the left (social liberalism), sometimes on the right (economic liberalism).

Left wing: The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[7] communism, anarchism, and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[8] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[9] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements, and environmental movements,[10][11] as well as a wide range of parties.[12][13][14] The term left wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[15]

According to author Barry Clark, "Leftists [...] claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated."[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:33:16 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:



I'm not at all saying 'play dumb'. I'm saying that there's a cultural difference that I'm still, even now, getting used to. Many people here will reach for a bit of cod psychology, or sometimes anthropology ... but social sciences - it can often feel as though they don't exist. Or, even if they do exist, they're not worth anything.



Because thats a realistic assessment. Social sciences are, at best, soft.

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RE: Meme Brilliantly Explains HARD TRUTH About “White... - 5/10/2016 3:34:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Left wing: The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution ....


So, as a republican yourself, Phydeaux, you're actually left wing?

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