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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 8:55:45 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD
Your commentary only perpetuates the inaccuracy that the actions of Islamic extremists are somehow typical of Muslims.
Wrong. What do the following countries have in common?:

Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.

Answer: The death penalty for leaving the Islamic faith.

You're welcome.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 8:58:43 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: teentie
as a Jewess , dear greta , I think from your comments , you are deranged. xx

I think the world is deranged in the first place to ever associate the word "peaceful" with Islam. I consider it one of the most inhumane religion on earth. And also how they practice their own religion in their own countries where they have the full freedom to execute their religious practices to the full practices are all extremely inhumane!
Including how they slaughter animals. Which I think is extremely cruel. And I am all for, give animals the most painless death if we have to eat them.
I just learnt today interestingly that Hitler admires Islam too and preferred Islam over Christianity. What does that say about Islam?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/16/2016 9:21:59 AM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 9:01:15 AM   
teentie


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Status: offline 		I wonder Greta if your mother was Jewish . xx

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 9:02:37 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: teentie

I wonder Greta if your mother was Jewish . xx

Do chinese jews exist? If they do, I would have to check my bloodlines. But I came from a long line of Buddhists. So it would be a very very very far away line.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 9:06:41 AM   
teentie


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Status: offline 		we JEWS get everywhere, own everything , hahahaha xx

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 9:12:36 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I just learnt today interestingly that Hitler admires Islam too and preferred Islam over Christianity. What does that say about Islam?
It says nothing. Hitler also hated homosexuals and preferred heterosexuals. Does that imply there's something wrong with heterosexuals?

Islams stands condemned based upon its tenets, promotion of intolerance and murder. Who admires it is irrelevant.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 9:28:18 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		How does telling someone you hate their God serve you? Why can you not hate the butchery in the name of a religion without condemning something dear to your friends?

I find nothing wrong or offensive with being an atheist and if it were to come up in a conversation expressing your beliefs. But by telling someone you hate their religion is no better than they reacting with the same hate towards you. It is unnecessary and divisive.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/16/2016 9:52:35 AM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 11:29:51 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

You're correct in that there are peaceful Muslims. I've known a few (unless I was gravely deceived). However, I think you probably have your statistics backwards. I think we're seeing evidence that most Muslims fall into one of four categories:

(In order of percentages)

1) Muslims willing to turn a blind eye to what the more radical element is involved in, almost as if they are thinking: "Thank Allah! Someone is finally doing something !"

2) Muslims who truly are too scared to stand up and have their voices heard (They'd rather live on their knees and I have no use for them, either).

3) Rabid dog shitheads for whom hanging is too good.

4) Peaceful Muslims (and may Allah bless them).

There is no fucking way ISIS/Al Qaeda/Hezbollah/even the PLO (back in the day) could have gotten as far as they have without the tacit approval of a majority (possibly a small majority, but a majority, none-the-less) of fellow Muslims. The Nazis didn't think they were aggressors, either; just ridding the world of the unwanted like ISIS et. al.

Michael


I would maybe make the case that the order is 4, 2, 3, 1 in order from greatest to least.

I'm sorry to admit that yes, Muslims are probably too scared scared to stand up and speak out against the violence. However, what will speaking out really accomplish? It would likely cause a backlash. People would go from asking why they aren't advocating against to Isis to asking why they aren't fighting Isis. Nothing will ever satisfy.

You mentioned Nazi'ism. How many Germans, or Axis countries, rose up and spoke out against the atrocities against the Jews? No one. How long did the Crusades last before anything was accomplished? Religious persecution is difficult to grasp and get a handle over. And it can last a long time.

And back to those percentages, the percentage of Muslims who turn a blind eye are miniscule - if they exist at all. You don't have to be a scholar to grasp the cruel nature of ethnic/religious cleansing.

Actually, I am with Michael on this one. Far too many and especially with these fatwas, a majority and sizable one, agree with them or refuse to disavow them. Meaning those who are deserving...should be killed and just for publishing a 'craven image'

Far too many Muslims (who act on their dogma/doctrine) and more each day it seems, are beginning to believe that trading another 50 years or so of depravity on earth in exchange for an eternity of paradise...is a good thing. Very few but still too many Christians sincerely believe that the second coming where only the righteous will be saved...is a good thing.

Some say that earth may have 50 years before one side...gets it wish or will act to make it so. (that's why the west needs a contingency plan for Pakistan, which has nukes and Iran...which wants them)

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/16/2016 11:37:37 AM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 3:48:49 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Cultural differences between the two communities.


They will never, ever, get that TDC. Religion determines *everything*. I've argued against that many, many times here, and almost felt people's eyes glaze over.

If it says in the Koran that you should be warlike, all Muslims will *be* warlike. Just like, you know, if it says in the Bible you should not be greedy, selfish and gluttonous, you'll never find a rich, fat, selfish shit who also claims to be Christian. Those sorts of people exist *nowhere* in the West, least of all in the USA, where all avowedly god-fearing people are keen to live in near-poverty, having given away most of their wealth to the needy. You read the Holy Bible, you will know *exactly* what you're going to get should you meet a Christian. So the same runs true with the Koran. I mean: I know my local newsagent, Ali, from whom I buy my copy of The Independent every day, looks happy enough just to sell me my paper, exchanging pleasantries with me ... but I also know that he's a Muslim, so, really, he's forever dreaming of the Jihad and fantasising about slicing my throat and installing Sharia law throughout Bristol, then the UK as a whole.

You know it makes sense!

God almighty am I tired of these kind of brainless threads.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 5:50:43 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Cultural differences between the two communities.


They will never, ever, get that TDC. Religion determines *everything*. I've argued against that many, many times here, and almost felt people's eyes glaze over.

If it says in the Koran that you should be warlike, all Muslims will *be* warlike. Just like, you know, if it says in the Bible you should not be greedy, selfish and gluttonous, you'll never find a rich, fat, selfish shit who also claims to be Christian. Those sorts of people exist *nowhere* in the West, least of all in the USA, where all avowedly god-fearing people are keen to live in near-poverty, having given away most of their wealth to the needy. You read the Holy Bible, you will know *exactly* what you're going to get should you meet a Christian. So the same runs true with the Koran. I mean: I know my local newsagent, Ali, from whom I buy my copy of The Independent every day, looks happy enough just to sell me my paper, exchanging pleasantries with me ... but I also know that he's a Muslim, so, really, he's forever dreaming of the Jihad and fantasising about slicing my throat and installing Sharia law throughout Bristol, then the UK as a whole.

You know it makes sense!

God almighty am I tired of these kind of brainless threads.

Except, I live in a country, where we all grew up with the same culture, but different religions. Our Muslims are not foreigners. We attend the same school, grew up on the same culture. The deviation is what religion we follow. So their attitude certainly stem from the religion they follow. And not their culture, since we all follow the same culture.
All you are saying is, there are exceptions. And there will always be exceptions. There will be Muslims who were raised by ISIS but may internally feel, killing is wrong, despite them being taught killing is right. It's called a human conscience. But my point is, we shouldn't be supporting any religion and awarding it the "peaceful" status, when it's not, and we are soooo reliant on the followers themselves to allow their own conscience to prevail. There should be a universally recognised understanding that Islam is not peaceful, and those who follow that religion is not following a peaceful religion. But of course, freedom of religion, allows them to follow anything if they choose to.

But if it's universally recognized as not peaceful, then, that will be a good start. Many people still choose to be in white supremacist organizations or Nazism, despite it being universally recognized as not a positive thing. But it sets the correct tone.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/16/2016 5:59:49 PM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 6:02:17 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How does telling someone you hate their God serve you? Why can you not hate the butchery in the name of a religion without condemning something dear to your friends?

I find nothing wrong or offensive with being an atheist and if it were to come up in a conversation expressing your beliefs. But by telling someone you hate their religion is no better than they reacting with the same hate towards you. It is unnecessary and divisive.

Butch


You will have friends following things that you disagree with. Telling my friends I hate their God is like telling them I hate One Direction, IF they happen to be huge fans of One Direction.

So same thing to me. They have the right to think me as a Godless satanist. And I have the right think they are following an evil God.

I never get offended when my Christians friend tell me, they worry about me that I am going to hell. They really believe my lack of belief is gonna make me end up in hell. They say they will pray for me and hope the holy spirit will touch me some day.

It's the same thing.

It's the same as politics right? How can right and left be friends? Belief in totally different things. What if I love Sarah Palin, and a leftish friend may tell me how evil Sarah Palin is, or how evil the republican party is. Depending on how mature this person is, it will not affect our friendship to have very strong different religious and political view. As we may have other common interests in other areas. For example, sports.

Also, I grew up in a Christian school, very very staunch Christian one. Where if you fail bible studies, you fail everything, your math, English, science, everything, even if you score A for everything, they will intentionally fail you for everything IF you don't take bible studies seriously. Prayers are compulsory, and anyway, it was super duper religious based.

So being a buddhist in a christian school, I get alot of harrassement by friends and teachers and even the principal to convert. They even told me, my parents are going to hell, because they are buddhist. These aren't my fellow classmates. These are the teachers.

So I had to explain to them why I will never love their God. And why I hate their God. My Christian friends tell me, Satan has blinded me, the usual spill, but they are still my friends. Some of them, are friends till today, since I was 10 yrs old. But our disagreement about Christianity remains the same.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/16/2016 6:32:16 PM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 6:10:05 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I just learnt today interestingly that Hitler admires Islam too and preferred Islam over Christianity. What does that say about Islam?
It says nothing. Hitler also hated homosexuals and preferred heterosexuals. Does that imply there's something wrong with heterosexuals?

Islams stands condemned based upon its tenets, promotion of intolerance and murder. Who admires it is irrelevant.

Exactly, Hitler also hate homosexuals. It's all consistent with Islam. Hitler really believes Islam is the best religion in the world, and he wished Germany was more Islamic than Christianity being the dominant religion. When a world massive evil favours a religion that he thinks represent closest to his philosophy and world view. It just says alot about that religion. I know Hitler will never admire Buddhism. If he did, he wouldn't have the race supremacy BS that he believed in.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 7:14:27 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

So same thing to me. They have the right to think me as a Godless satanist. And I have the right think they are following an evil God.


They are not your friends if they do... and you are not their friends if you purposely hurt them.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 7:53:51 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

So same thing to me. They have the right to think me as a Godless satanist. And I have the right think they are following an evil God.


They are not your friends if they do... and you are not their friends if you purposely hurt them.

Butch

I don't view things that way. I believe in honesty. And I don't believe in telling white lies.

I have a very black and white view towards blunt honesty.

I do get along with people better who believes in such bluntness and transparency too.

There is no reason why I can't be friends with someone who I don't support or like whoever they idolise.

I also believe that the truth can sometimes be hurtful. In my case, the truth is, I hate their God. Nothing personal. I just do not like their God. But I always prefer truth to white lies.

I treat people the way I want to be treated. I will never need my friends to spare my feelings, if they disagree with me on anything, i want to hear why. Infact I hate it when people spare my feelings, because I think it's ridiculous.

I just can't imagine having a friend who cannot be totally honest with me. That to me is not a friend.

I mean, from a staunch christian point of view. They like you as a person, but you are not a christian and you hate their god. Their opinion is that, their poor friend are in the clutches of Satan. Do they abandon that friend because of that? No, because they are true friends. But it won't change the fact that they think you have been influenced by the evil satan.

I mean, we been friends since kids. Their actions speak louder than words. They can tell me, Satan has gotten me. But if I need help, they'll be there, like really be there through actions, and I know I can always count on them and I will always be there for them as well. To me, that's what a real friend is.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/16/2016 8:04:19 PM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 8:42:49 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Except, I live in a country, where we all grew up with the same culture, but different religions. Our Muslims are not foreigners. We attend the same school, grew up on the same culture.

Except that you didn't. Even within the same city there are different cultural milieus and segments.

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/16/2016 8:45:44 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
Except that you didn't. Even within the same city there are different cultural milieus and segments.

Because, religion influences culture. They don't eat pork, drink alcohol, they gotta pray 5 times a day. I eat pork, drink alcohol and I don't pray at all. That's our cultural differences stem from religion. Even our weddings and funerals are different, because of our religions.

Islam as a religion creates a certain culture. Basically, Buddhism does as well. But fortunately, the ultimate Buddhist goal is to have no attachments to worldly things. How to want nothing and need nothing. Not very attractive as a religion. Especially when everybody goes to hell regardless. One gotta be as perfect as Buddha to reach heaven. Which is like the most difficult thing to do.

Ultimate Islamic goal is how to Islamise the whole universe. And on top of that, to reach heaven, not participating in Jihad is an infraction against their entry to heaven....,which kinda makes things complicated between moderate and extremists.

Ultimate Christian goal is to get as many to heaven as possible by converting them to believe in Christ. I'm pretty sure for Christians, refusing to participate in terrorism does not prevent them from going into heaven. Which is fortunate. Otherwise, they would be as terrible as Islam.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/16/2016 8:55:27 PM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/17/2016 3:33:26 AM   
Blank101


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quote:

Awareness

quote:

Greta75

I can tell you one thing for sure.

I openly tell all my Christians friends that I hate their God and I hate Christianity. And they are still my friends. They know I am an atheist and I hate their religion and their God, and it doesn't matter to them. My Christian friends are of different race from me too. Some pitch dark South Indians.

But I can never tell a Muslim how much I hate their religion. They will always react in a terrible manner. Bigot, Racists, etc etc. Even IF it's a Chinese Muslim.

I mean, why do you think this is so?


Because Islam is a religion of hatred and death. If you attempt to leave their religion, they kill you.

Fucking duh!


quote:

Awareness

quote:

DeviantlyD
Your commentary only perpetuates the inaccuracy that the actions of Islamic extremists are somehow typical of Muslims.


Wrong. What do the following countries have in common? Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.

Answer: The death penalty for leaving the Islamic faith.

You're welcome.


No where in the Quran does it say that the punishment for apostasy is death. The Hadith does support the killing those who apostatize, however it is second in authority to the Quran. Additionally, the majority of the fifty Muslim countries in the world do not support capital punishment for apostasy. The eight countries you listed represent ~7.5% of the Muslim population in the world.

< Message edited by Blank101 -- 5/17/2016 4:13:03 AM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/17/2016 4:17:50 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101
No where in the Quran does it say that the punishment for apostasy is death. The Hadith does support the killing those who apostatize, however it is second in authority to the Quran.


Capital punishment applies in the case of a person who meets any of the following conditions:

1 – The apostate. The apostate is one who disbelieves after being a Muslim, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6524.
Source (one of several): https://islamqa.info/en/20824



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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/17/2016 4:27:48 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blank101
No where in the Quran does it say that the punishment for apostasy is death. The Hadith does support the killing those who apostatize, however it is second in authority to the Quran. Additionally, the majority of the fifty Muslim countries in the world do not support capital punishment for apostasy. The eight countries you listed represent ~7.5% of the Muslim population in the world.

No authentic Islam scholar in the Muslim world would agree with you that Hadiths come second to the Quran. You cannot understand the Quran without the Hadith. They go hand in hand. Quran has vague verses. Hadith explains more indepth how to interprete the verses in the Quran by giving examples. This is exactly why, moderate muslims who desperately want to ditch the hadith and discredit it, because from the beginning of time of Islam. There has been no room for different interpretation. Thanks to the Hadith. It's not like the bible where it is the ONLY book, Quran has a secondary official books that tells you exactly how to interpret it correctly and the Hadith is where all the real nastiness starts. And for them to have more peaceful interpretation of Islam, new school Muslims wants to discredit the authenticity of the Hadith but you can't come in much later in life, in the long history of practising Islam and then decide, the hadith that has from the beginning of time been revered as THE guide to interpreting the Quran correctly and suddenly denounce it to the Muslim world as false and inaccurate! It might work convincing lefties. But not the Muslim people.

The best part is, all the hadiths are ranked according to how authentic and accurate the information are. They are annointed as super authentic officially! The top 3 ones.

And, find me a Muslim country in this world who does not punish apostasy? There is none. Not all of them is death, but it is against the law of ALL Muslim countries, and if there is no death, there is imprisonment.

Malaysia constantly have this fights, where one parents is Muslim and one parent is Hindu for example. And the child wants to convert to a Hindu. The law tells him. Sure, then face the death penalty. And they never win it. As in successfully win conversion. In the end, they battle, and lose, and give up and decide to value their life. In Malaysia, they make it super strict. If your mother or father is a Muslim, You're a Muslim whether you like it or not. Period. And that's a super moderate Muslim country.

The battle is so bad to the extent where parents battle at courts, IF their son died, and one wants to bury them Hindu way, and the other wants to bury Muslim way. And Muslim way always wins.

And worst of all, they have religious police that patrols and enforce sharia laws, even in the most modern cities like Kuala Lumpur. If you are a non Muslim, there is nothing to worry about. But if you are officially recognised by the country as a Muslim, because one of your parent is a Muslim. IF they caught you just holding hands with a woman. You must produce a marriage certificate, or you are screwed! It's jail term! Immediate arrest.

They raid hotels too and check on Muslim couples.

The oppression is soooo terrible. It just sickens me to hear the left defending this disgusting religion day after day.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/17/2016 4:45:34 AM >

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RE: Muslims and Christians - 5/17/2016 4:58:24 AM   
Blank101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Actually, I am with Michael on this one. Far too many and especially with these fatwas, a majority and sizable one, agree with them or refuse to disavow them. Meaning those who are deserving...should be killed and just for publishing a 'craven image'

Far too many Muslims (who act on their dogma/doctrine) and more each day it seems, are beginning to believe that trading another 50 years or so of depravity on earth in exchange for an eternity of paradise...is a good thing. Very few but still too many Christians sincerely believe that the second coming where only the righteous will be saved...is a good thing.

Some say that earth may have 50 years before one side...gets it wish or will act to make it so. (that's why the west needs a contingency plan for Pakistan, which has nukes and Iran...which wants them)


I'm sure there is large number of Muslims with fatwas, who believe that Islam is the only way, however I don't look at them the same way as the extremists. The extremists, like Isis, like Al Qaeda, are the ones looking to jump start a holy war and burn the world until everyone is a believer of the prophet Muhammad. Christianity is no different. There are some staunch Christians who believe that Christianity is the only way. The difference with Christianity is that there isn't much an extremist ideology nowadays. As some have pointed out earlier, it comes down to cultural differences. The Western world is kind of tame when it comes to enforcing and believing in religion.

You do bring up an interesting point about the crazies who want to start a holy war, and nuclear armed Pakistan/Middle East. If we want to avoid a holy war of sorts, we need to do everything we can to prevent the complete isolation of Islam from the rest of the world. Islam is not to blame. The majority of Muslims do not cause trouble, and those who do are usually more harmful to other Muslims than they are to non-Muslims. And that's something that can be worked out within the confines of Islam (hopefully).

As far as the extremism, we need to do everything we can to prevent it from escalating further to avoid what you said about Pakistan and Iran. A part of that is not isolating Muslims and changing their religion to what suits, particular, Western, ideals.

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