RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (Full Version)

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Edwird -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 8:47:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrent

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.



Oh! What a dagger to the metaphysical heart that one is!

Well, being that a thermal conductivity detector or a gas chromatography device and the measurements obtained thereby are just figments of our imagination, ignore the millions in sales on those items ...

But in any case, here's an ancient Druid-Hindu-Celtic-JuJu walk-around that uses those devices to come up with in answer to your thoughtful question; http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryfaqs/f/aircomposition.htm



I'd be interested to know how a fire can be lit, or any other kind of combustion can occur, without the oxygen content of air being on hand to let stuff burn...


But god created hellfire (because he loves us right up to the moment he truly hates us, apparently), and if god did that all by himself, who needs air?





vincentML -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 8:49:39 AM)

@TDC

quote:

The universe exists because it wants to exist, life exists because it wants to exist, and sentience exists because it wants to exist.
This is the teleological fallacy dressed in different clothing substituting desire or want for god as first cause; the statement presumes something can will itself into being before it exists and has a will to so. I don't think so.




WhoreMods -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 8:50:57 AM)

Anything which flies or breathes, for a start.
However, if aerodynamics could be dismissed as magic as well, just get a glass of water and a straw, and blow some bubbles. I don't think that would work unless you had something invisible yet palpable in your lungs. [:D]




Edwird -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 8:54:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.


Sorry, I just couldn't resist ...

"What are you inhaling there, bro?"




Edwird -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 9:23:01 AM)


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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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Only because you cannot free yourself from the tiny, constrictive box of magical thinking.


No. I say that because I am in fact thinking entirely scientifically.


Oh please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

See there simply is zero actual scientific explanation for the emergence of ... life


Just take a first semester geology class before you embarrass yourself further.

In any case, even though I "can't write worth shit," I'm nevertheless able to point out that you missed the required comma after "See."





Lucylastic -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 10:01:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Anything which flies or breathes, for a start.
However, if aerodynamics could be dismissed as magic as well, just get a glass of water and a straw, and blow some bubbles. I don't think that would work unless you had something invisible yet palpable in your lungs. [:D]

bubbles




WhoreMods -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 10:10:45 AM)

Bubbles are magic as well?




Lucylastic -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 10:15:56 AM)

have air in them, specially fart bubbles




WhoreMods -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 10:20:22 AM)

Indeed. The glass of water and straw thing is a bit more acceptable in company than farting in a swimming pool, though.
[;)]




Edwird -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 10:21:53 AM)


OK, where are we going with this?

Don Ho, or kids in the bath tub?

Tiny bubbles in any case, amirite?





blnymph -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:00:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
...

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.


Has been done - and not only once:

Evangelista Torricelli in 1644

Blaise Pascal in 1647

Otto von Guericke in 1663

Daniel Bernoulli ("aerodynamics") in 1738

As you can see: centuries ago ...

Did they not teach you these things at school?







Lucylastic -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:07:15 AM)

I had a pic with the url ready, but now Ive lost it...
sorry all I have to offer today is fun




Staleek -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:11:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who observed that if anything could be said to be proven about God, it was that He really likes beetles, wasn't it?

As far as death and entropy goes, no question that everything needs to break down eventually. My point about the human body, though is that it often tends to break down piecemeal, with certain parts packing up catastrophically while the rest of it is still ticking over nicely. This is a really weird approach to built in obsolescence that implies even incompetence or a lack of forethought on the part of the designer. [:D]


But that is the beauty of it all. Life is actually perfect in its imperfection. An organism doesn't stop all at once, it slowly degrades until it is too weak to flee from a predator or is too slow to hunt for food. If life is driven whatever is behind it is genius because of these flaws.

As an analogy - perfect video game AI is really easy to code. It's easy to make a bot that will fight perfectly, block instantly, shoot with perfect accuracy and utilize resources perfectly. The challenge for game developers is to create an intelligence which is flawed enough to compete with humans without being too easy. Life works without catastrophic bugs, lock ups, or without supreme creatures which dominate (even humans have predators which hunt us in our artificial environments, ask anyone with AIDS). It works very well, I can see why many consider it to be a reason to believe in something beyond corporeal existience.

Having said that there is absolutely nothing about nature that suggests god is a male, bearded, white dude with a black persons voice who sits on a cloud deciding to burn people for eternity for not repenting ten minutes before they got run over in the street. And I've certainly never seen anything to suggest that dark skinned Middle-Eastern man who opposed white western occupiers in his homeland (such as Abu Musab Al-Zakarwi, Osama Bin-Laden, or Jesus Christ) have any special connection to such a hypothetical entity.




WhoreMods -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:30:11 AM)

I've always thought using the term "AI" to describe a collection of simplistic tropes in a video game is a bit off, myself. [:D] Point taken, though.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:34:49 AM)

quote:

Because the concept of awareness requires recognition, the concept of determining there is a there...there. That requires the electro-chemical activity in a brain to create the thought required to conceptualize that recognition.

Really? And where is an oak tree's brain?




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:42:00 AM)

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The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?

Ah, well there's where you went astray. The so-called "Big Bang" was not actually an explosion but rather the rapid expansion of a singularity.
And while I agree that one cannot discuss this topic without taking into account religion, one need not push any given religion or attempt to prove the rightness or wrongness of any religion.




Staleek -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 11:56:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?


One of these two men is responsible for the Big Bang theory. Can you guess who it was?

[image]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PVqTyutYHzM/hqdefault.jpg[/image]

Given the origins of the theory it is safe to say that religious people can believe in both god and the Big Bang theory quite easily.

Also, you're not quite up to speed on the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, contrary to popular belief, is NOT a creation of the universe theory. It concerns the history of the universe from the very first zeptoseconds after the matter and energy the universe is made of came into being. It does NOT concern itself with where that energy and matter come from.





dcnovice -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 4:08:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who observed that if anything could be said to be proven about God, it was that He really likes beetles, wasn't it?

“An inordinate fondness for beetles.” That was the reply of J.B.S. Haldane, a British scientific polymath of the early 20th century, when he was asked if there were anything that could be concluded about God from the study of natural history.

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21646647-why-are-there-so-many-species-coleptera-beetlemania




sloguy02246 -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 4:14:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?


One of these two men is responsible for the Big Bang theory. Can you guess who it was?

[image]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PVqTyutYHzM/hqdefault.jpg[/image]

Given the origins of the theory it is safe to say that religious people can believe in both god and the Big Bang theory quite easily.

Also, you're not quite up to speed on the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, contrary to popular belief, is NOT a creation of the universe theory. It concerns the history of the universe from the very first zeptoseconds after the matter and energy the universe is made of came into being. It does NOT concern itself with where that energy and matter come from.





The answer is either Albert Einstein or Jarrod from Subway?




kdsub -> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... (6/5/2016 4:58:01 PM)

Vince do you think our species is capable of understanding infinity and its obvious implications? We already discussed time and the two of these together I believe will be forever beyond anything but wild speculation by your beloved science.

Is space with no limiting dimension or border...time with no beginning or ending any less unbelievable and without proof than a universal intelligence? Both are incomprehensible to our human minds but if one is possible the other cannot be denied with certainty.

Your denial of the possibility of a universal intelligence is my bone to pick with you not your belief in the infallibility of observable science.

Otherwise I think it is reasonable to doubt... I do at times as well...but it is not reasonable to claim science has any say or proof in denying the possibility of...for lack of another word... God.

Butch





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