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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/29/2016 12:47:58 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"It appears that she, like I, felt you were more a custodial services kind of guy. "

Yeah, ind it appears that you are one of the people Ron calls nutsucker. Make all kinds of wild assumptions and call people stupid. When are you going to post something of substance ?

T^T



Hey, don't fuck with him, he's an intellectual bad ass. If you do fuck with him, don't go for a toe shot he'll be wearing bullet proof socks

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 8:37:55 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

For example, Peon contends that feminists universally believe in equality of the sexes and advocate such.


They do, or they're not feminists, Awareness. Per the standard definition of feminism, which is available on websites all over the net.

This little issue has *really* made you go a bit deranged, you know. You should call for Nursie!
Peon, your position is so full of logical holes, I barely know where to begin.

For example, your statement above is a classic example of begging the question - a bizarre piece of circular reasoning.

"Feminists believe in equality, otherwise they're not feminists."

"How can you say that?"

"Because feminists say so."

That's just for starters. Second, you claim feminism has no leaders, no unifying agreement on the definition of feminism, but then bizarrely ascribe the power to define feminism to a dictionary edited by God knows who.

Third, you have absolutely no evidence that feminists practice the definition you're claiming they do. Instead you're essentially attempting to proclaim feminism by fiat as though you have the power and authority to define the activities of thousands of broken women (with the occasional mangina).

I realise why you do it. Feminism is pretty much indefensible which is why you - and the other intellectually bankrupt feminists spreading misinformation and propaganda - try and use the dictionary argument as a bulwark against the wave of documentation of feminism's ills. However it's not convincing, is logically unsound and is completely undermined by the documented actions of feminists on a day to day basis.

And when challenged, you're completely unable to articulate an example of a feminist who meets your dictionary criteria. So apparently your definition of feminism is practiced by nobody.

This is what I mean about an argument so poor it defies credibility. You can't argue your way out of a paper bag, let alone defend a creed of hatred and misandry.





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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 8:43:29 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

A True American is just like a True Scotsman or a True Feminist.

When someone makes a claim which they contend applies universally and is then confronted with an example which torpedoes their claim, they then resort to the No True Scotsman or - in Peon's case - the No True Feminist fallacy.

For example, Peon contends that feminists universally believe in equality of the sexes and advocate such.

When confronted with examples of how feminists advocate for advantages for women without corresponding acceptance of responsibilities (or in some cases just plain gender-based advantage), Peon resorts to the No True Scotsman fallacy by saying that no "true" feminist behaves in such a way.

Or, in Peon's vernacular, "those people aren't feminists".

It's one of the most basic, glaring examples of a logical fallacy and makes a complete mockery of his claims to educational competence - particularly in PolSci which absolutely requires the ability to reason.

Or, at least - it did at one point. I get the impression standards have slipped.


In any case, references to "True American" or its inverse, "unamerican" are merely rhetorical tools for manipulating a dialogue. They have no validity whatsoever. None.

And anyone who contends otherwise is a fucking moron.


Being a true American, or feminist or Scotsman is an individual matter.
While I believe in the concept of the "true American" I do not go around lableing people according to that concept.
Well I think it's fucking nonsense. The concept of a "true scotsman" is an example of a logical fallacy. So is the notion of a True American.

I mean, what IS a True American? Is he black, white or hispanic? Is he a cowboy in Texas, a hick from the South, a conservative from the Mid-west, a liberal from California or is he old money from New England?

Does the True American pay taxes (like Apple and the majority of corporations don't)? Does the True American believe in all of the parts of the Constitution or just the freedom of speech and right to shoot people parts?

The entire concept of the True American is a device by which people manipulate the conversation. It's an attempt to define yourself as an authority. It is, without a doubt, 100% certified bullshit

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 9:23:42 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Education is Soooooo Important.

Yes it is, and since the 60's they have kept people ignorant of our history and Constitution. I actually heard two people arguing about how well Bill Clinton was going to do in the 04 election since he was only barred from 3 consecutive terms of office. One had a MA degree and the other a BA degree. I had to explain that it was two terms for a persons life time. At the same place I was posting the Bill of Rights and even though I copied the amendments verbratum I was accused repeatedly by people with BA's of making them up, one even told me " the constitution can't say that" .
when I went to High School if we had been that ignorant we would have never graduated. Soon after I graduated education changed and that 40 year span Mr Rogers was talking about began. The key to fixing the country is to go back to teaching these things using original sources.

Well you know you are in trouble when you run into people that say an amendment to the constitution is...unconstitutional.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 9:28:33 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		Now that you've raised that one, I do wonder if pissartists whined half as much about the Volstead act as the gun bunnies do whenever somebody in the Senate or the white house says a word about gun control?

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 9:53:28 AM   
CorruptJ


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/31/2013
Status: offline 		So I was poking around the main site and one of the posts flew past and needless to say it hit a button.

@Awareness, slapping the name of a fallacy onto someone else's point does not mean they are wrong. What you are really doing it a combination of an ad hominem attack and an appeal as a strawman, in other words, you come off like you're simply saying "Support me because Peon using these things I claim as fallacies!".

From your post we can see that you have entered a pointless language debate. From Peon's stance feminism is equal rights and he called the widely spread dictionary level of reference as support for his interpretation of the word. You falsely attribute this as a claim that feminism is what feminists say they are and then called it circular reasoning because will paraphrase anything said, including this post, in order to perpetuate your argument.

Whatever your point is actually supposed to be and whether or not it serves any actual purpose is unknown to me as I'm not digging into the thread and nothing on this page actually can be used to discern your position since all your recent posts are intended slander. I advise you to take a break. Calm down, step away from the computer and even if you can't get the argument out of your head don't let it come out through your fingers until tomorrow. By then you would have put some actual thought into your post and figured out a way to calmly explain your position and why you think it is a good idea.

The more moral goal of an arguments to teach others, but if all you're going to do is bitch piss and moan at them your words will fall on deaf ears. And if they refuse to acknowledge good points without reason, then they are simply not worth your time and you shouldn't waste it on them.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 9:58:04 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		HERE is another.

Butch

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 12:36:04 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Now that you've raised that one, I do wonder if pissartists whined half as much about the Volstead act as the gun bunnies do whenever somebody in the Senate or the white house says a word about gun control?


You'll notice that prohibition was enabled by an amendment but congress still had to pass appropriate legislation to enable enforcement. Like we got the right to life, but there still has to be a law against murder.

Now get this, believe it or not, they never did the same for income tax. THERE IS NO LAW. Every time you ask anyone about the actual law that you have to pay they cite IRS code. The IRS is a corporation out of Delaware. They are not a government entity. Neither is the federal reserve. Congress, not the President charters the fed even though the President chooses its head.

I have been to some classes on all this, and had alot of discussions with (and saw video of) people who paid a hundred bucks an hour for tutoring by ex-law professors from Harvard. People who know twice as much about law than most government officials, even judges. Even Barack Obama.

Fact is, if you even decide to go to tax court (you can get out of it if you REALLY know what you're doing) if you can show a good faith beloieff that you do not have to pay, the judge will riule not guilty. Not even jury nullification, though that works sometimes as well. You have to present the case just right, there is not much wiggle room.

But then, would a true American refuse to pay taxes ? Refuse to pay taxes to strike kids with drones because their Daddy was a terrorist, or actually freedom fighter ? Remember we fucked with them first. To go and kill Rangy Weaver's olady ? To burn the Branch Davidians alive, who had done NOTHING wrong ? Yeah, Weaver sold a sawed off shotgun to someone he thought was a friend who said he needed a gun because he was afraid of some idiot or crazy and wanted to protect his family up where it takes DAYS for the cops to get there. You think he deserved to lose a kid, an olady and a dog over a stupid shotgun ? What's more, an old style flare guns are technically a 12 gauge pistol. Just a bit hard to shoot, use both hands.

McVeigh was a true American, if that is meant how I think it is. However he did the wrong thing. I do agree that something should have been done, but not that. But there ain't much accountin for brains in this country. He was on my side in that he believed this government needs to be curtailed, quashed a bit, made to back down. But then he took the totally worst course of action possible. Who the fuck educated him on tactics ? Did he ever play chess ? Checkers even ?

T^T

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 1:49:56 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Now get this, believe it or not, they never did the same for income tax. THERE IS NO LAW

No, you're forgetting about the Internal Revenue Code, enacted by Congress in Title 26 of the United States Code (26 U.S.C.).

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 1:59:14 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Now that you've raised that one, I do wonder if pissartists whined half as much about the Volstead act as the gun bunnies do whenever somebody in the Senate or the white house says a word about gun control?


Gun Bunnies ???

I'm sure the pissartists whined that much or more over the 19th amendment compared to the whining constitutional 2nd Amendment types do over stupid gun control schemes.

What I don't have to wonder about is if prohibitions on firearms or even certain types of firearms will cause half the problems that prohibitions on liquor caused. I'm sure the criminal elements will step into what were legitament legal businesses and enrich themselves.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 2:12:49 PM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline 		You morons are telling us how to run the country?
Run your own country.
Quit obsessing with what we do, and take care of your own people, idiots.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 2:51:18 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1sDTTRjncY

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 3:01:58 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

For example, Peon contends that feminists universally believe in equality of the sexes and advocate such.


They do, or they're not feminists, Awareness. Per the standard definition of feminism, which is available on websites all over the net.

This little issue has *really* made you go a bit deranged, you know. You should call for Nursie!
Peon, your position is so full of logical holes, I barely know where to begin.

For example, your statement above is a classic example of begging the question - a bizarre piece of circular reasoning.

"Feminists believe in equality, otherwise they're not feminists."

"How can you say that?"

"Because feminists say so."

That's just for starters. Second, you claim feminism has no leaders, no unifying agreement on the definition of feminism, but then bizarrely ascribe the power to define feminism to a dictionary edited by God knows who.

Third, you have absolutely no evidence that feminists practice the definition you're claiming they do. Instead you're essentially attempting to proclaim feminism by fiat as though you have the power and authority to define the activities of thousands of broken women (with the occasional mangina).

I realise why you do it. Feminism is pretty much indefensible which is why you - and the other intellectually bankrupt feminists spreading misinformation and propaganda - try and use the dictionary argument as a bulwark against the wave of documentation of feminism's ills. However it's not convincing, is logically unsound and is completely undermined by the documented actions of feminists on a day to day basis.

And when challenged, you're completely unable to articulate an example of a feminist who meets your dictionary criteria. So apparently your definition of feminism is practiced by nobody.

This is what I mean about an argument so poor it defies credibility. You can't argue your way out of a paper bag, let alone defend a creed of hatred and misandry.






Stop windbagging me, Awareness. Go and look up the definition of feminism - in any of the standard and respected dictionaries - The Oxford, Webster's, etc, etc. It's defined that way not because the writers of said dictionaries want to propagandise nor even assert their authority over the rest of us, but because that's how the word is standardly used. Were they to try to do anything else, they'd be picked up for it in no short order.

You're going to have to give up on this, old boy, no matter how much that jars with your dangerously overinflated ego. And ... no matter how much you want to wriggle around, without this definition, all you've got left is Nick's pisspoor 'Feminism is what feminists do' - which continues to beg the question, 'how do you define feminists, then?'

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 3:04:11 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 3:58:23 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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quote:

'Feminism is what feminists do' - which continues to beg the question, 'how do you define feminists, then?'

Why some one who believes in feminism of course.
Feminism=feminists. feminists=feminism
See how that works, it loops right around on itself like a little logical ouroboros.


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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 4:11:16 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I do wonder if pissartists whined half as much about the Volstead act as the gun bunnies do whenever somebody in the Senate or the white house says a word about gun control?

Fwiw, Woodrow Wilson vetoed the Volstead Act, but the veto was swiftly overridden by hefty majorities in both House (210-73) and Senate (69-20).

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 6:16:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I mean, what IS a True American? Is he black, white or hispanic? Is he a cowboy in Texas, a hick from the South, a conservative from the Mid-west, a liberal from California or is he old money from New England?

Why do you insist that to be a true American you have to be from a particular groups. There are true Americans in each of the groups you mentioned, there are also outright traitors in each group.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 6:21:55 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67

You morons are telling us how to run the country?
Run your own country.
Quit obsessing with what we do, and take care of your own people, idiots.

He is an American talking about how we run things in the U S you are confused again.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/30/2016 6:23:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Education is Soooooo Important.

Yes it is, and since the 60's they have kept people ignorant of our history and Constitution. I actually heard two people arguing about how well Bill Clinton was going to do in the 04 election since he was only barred from 3 consecutive terms of office. One had a MA degree and the other a BA degree. I had to explain that it was two terms for a persons life time. At the same place I was posting the Bill of Rights and even though I copied the amendments verbratum I was accused repeatedly by people with BA's of making them up, one even told me " the constitution can't say that" .
when I went to High School if we had been that ignorant we would have never graduated. Soon after I graduated education changed and that 40 year span Mr Rogers was talking about began. The key to fixing the country is to go back to teaching these things using original sources.

Well you know you are in trouble when you run into people that say an amendment to the constitution is...unconstitutional.

My point exactly.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: True American ? What is a 'true' American ? - 5/31/2016 4:50:50 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

A True American is just like a True Scotsman or a True Feminist.

When someone makes a claim which they contend applies universally and is then confronted with an example which torpedoes their claim, they then resort to the No True Scotsman or - in Peon's case - the No True Feminist fallacy.

For example, Peon contends that feminists universally believe in equality of the sexes and advocate such.

When confronted with examples of how feminists advocate for advantages for women without corresponding acceptance of responsibilities (or in some cases just plain gender-based advantage), Peon resorts to the No True Scotsman fallacy by saying that no "true" feminist behaves in such a way.

Or, in Peon's vernacular, "those people aren't feminists".

It's one of the most basic, glaring examples of a logical fallacy and makes a complete mockery of his claims to educational competence - particularly in PolSci which absolutely requires the ability to reason.

Or, at least - it did at one point. I get the impression standards have slipped.


In any case, references to "True American" or its inverse, "unamerican" are merely rhetorical tools for manipulating a dialogue. They have no validity whatsoever. None.

And anyone who contends otherwise is a fucking moron.


Being a true American, or feminist or Scotsman is an individual matter.
While I believe in the concept of the "true American" I do not go around lableing people according to that concept.

So you don't see the big perk of defining yourself as a true American is that you get to label anybody who you take a dislike to as an unamerican hater, then?



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