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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 9:47:51 AM   
Edwird


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The Dixie Chicks, ya.

While we're at it, the media made a big whoop-de-doo about Hillary not being a native New Yorker when she ran for senator in that state.

But the Connecticut Yankees as governors of Texas (George) and Florida (Jeb)? Mum's the word, on that aspect.

Damn librul media!

It's a mediagopoly. I wish more people could see through it.





< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 9:50:42 AM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 10:12:08 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		I think part of the Dixie Chick's beef was that Dubya had the fake-iest Texas accent ever, wasn't it?

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 10:31:45 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Yes, I remember that Bismark's purpose in that was also to have Prussia take over what had been provided by church charitable or,ganizations up to that point, for political agenda of crowding out the mostly Catholic (at the time) Center (Centre) Party.

I just find it interesting that whoever proposed to rule Prussia or Deutschland even way back when had to make some significant 'motions' and advertise 'notions' about the social responsibility of government to sell it to the populace. What a concept! In any case, after all the (sometimes egregious) missteps, that idea wouldn't be in place now, and working pretty well, if there weren't a national mindset of sorts behind it.
...


@ Edwird

The Zentrum as a solely Catholic party still exists but at a vote level of about 1 % and only in a few regions. Fighting "Ultramontanism" as well as emigration, in addition an economic crisis after the boom of the 1870s, all these also had some influence.

I am not sure the national mindset existed already with the majority of the population, or was (to be) created by Bismarck's legislature. What was Germany then had been 38 independent states only a few years and three wars earlier, and a centralised government was a rather new experience; many felt/feel more loyalty to their native state than the the "nation" - one of those things Hitler fought with violence before 1939.

In many ways Bismarck achieved a few things though often not quite resulting in what he intended. The social security legislation was an obvious success and benefit for all (and extended in the 20th century), and as such acknowledged by all the longer it existed and worked. The concept is (but I am not an expert) based on an idea of state as in Rousseau's contrat social, and Hegel.

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 11:09:00 AM   
Edwird


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"Immigration," you mean. Worrying about who's coming into the country. Of course, one has to be an emigrant from the country they leave, to be an immigrant to whatever country they land in. (why a single m in the middle of one word, but an mm in the middle of the other word? Boy, did those Norman invaders of England screw up your language good, or what?)

I'm not "sure" that mindset I which propose was actually in place consciously at the time either. I just find it interesting that the populace took to it so readily when presented, in any case.

That 'could' be because the country, as such, was so new at the time.

One of my Deutschesprache teachers made a point to denigrate and deride the German national anthem because of some of the verses they don't even use anymore, and picked this godawful version of it from youtube to play to the class to make her point. I'm not even a fan of the (musical) classical era, though I listen to mostly classical music, now, but Haydn's Gott Erhalte Franz der Kaiser was a nice piece of music, for its own sake. But the guy (sorry, can't remember his name at the moment) who wrote the words for the German anthem wrote that in ~ 1848, during the 'revolution,' in attempt to bring the 38 principalities you speak of to a 'nation.' Back when there was still argument about "Grossdeutsch' vs. "Kleindeutsch.

In any case, the writer (of the words) seemed to be both 'patriotic' and a bit revolutionary, at the time. MUCH more complex than how the US came to be, which makes die Geschichte there much more interesting (and much more frustrating to learn!)











< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 11:28:55 AM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 11:24:10 AM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		no, emigration then - up to the early 1900s Germany had a considerable percentage of emigration (resulting in net loss of population) to both Americas as well as within Europe and a few to the German colonies (with re-migration of descendants until present).

The poet you forgot was Hoffmann von Fallersleben, the music was stolen from Austria - but only after 1919. The anthem before was "Heil dir im Siegerkranz" with music stolen from the UK (God save ...). And many german states had their own anthem (Bavaria still has - the very last relic of Bavarian independence).

"Deutschland, Deutschland ..." was not imperialistic then when von Fallersleben wrote it (in exile on British Heligoland) because it did not exist for quite a while (and was banned during monarchy).

< Message edited by blnymph -- 6/5/2016 11:25:33 AM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 11:42:11 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"Did I ever claim Hilter was sane? He was a raving lunatic that should have lost power on the spot. "

Hitler was totally rational and sane, and intelligent and actually a Christian.

After WW1 the country was ravaged and bleeding money like3 someone who got cut right in half. The bankers stole money to help finance the Russian revolution and those people were real enemies. They were coming no matter what.

He did make mistakes. If his forces hadn't been spread so thin in half of Europe, he could have probably taken Russia. That would be a one fronted war. They might have got it done and accomplished a "regime change", a phrase the US seems to like.

And remember that Hitler did not start WW1. And remember what exactly enabled him to power, people fucking the country over, and not just reparations. He saw that and used it as leverage to gain practically absolute power, and with the consent of the majority.

He did wrong, made crucial mistakes. If he was ready to go to war he should have taken Russia first. Then work on Europe, exploiting Russian assets of course. The PTB in Russia were not very popular at the time and I am surprised there was not a serious, I mean serious problem with desertion. I mean even defecting and fighting with the Germans against their homeland. You might be surprised to find out how many people in any given country would defect to an invading force. Especially a strong one that did not rape their Women n shit.

Maybe not though, after the Czar they were used to the shit.

And that is where we are. the US is practically a dictatorship but we got 535 dictators who are selected for us from the ones loyal to our owners. You can vote for tweedle dee or tweedle cum or tweedle dumber. The way I am seeing it is that the vote of the People does not necessarily determine the candidates. That is the type of democracy we impose by force on other countries and the motherfuckers do not understand why the People in those countries do not like it.

Hitler made mistakes. The Stein gand wanted to ally with him but he refused. If he had accepted their offer he probably would have ruled half of Europe. Lacking that, going head on full blast at Russia would have been his best move, because they are actually who beat him. Not the US, not Italy or any of those pipsqueaks. Russia was the demise of the Nazis, regardless of that little happening in Japan with the Fat Man and Little Boy.

As far as being socialist, well he did commandeer a bunch of industry for the war effort. But then so did the US. There was a Cadillac factory taken over to build tanks for example. There was rationing as well. That is not a republic. And BTW we were never a democracy.

And I got another opinion but I can't support it, people say the French had no backbone and surrendered. I mean not just the government, the People surrendered. I think they were sick of their liberal government. now if you look at how it was then today you would not call it liberal. But back then people were different. Way different.

The writer(s) of The Protocols called "so called liberalism" something like a foot in the door to get power. And it is true. you give people free shit they will vote for you.

Actual conservatives ran the US back when there were more haves than havenots. Now we got mostly havenots so what the fuck did you think was going to happen ?

No, he was not crazy, just wrong in his strategy.

T^T

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 11:57:25 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

no, emigration then - up to the early 1900s Germany had a considerable percentage of emigration (resulting in net loss of population) to both Americas as well as within Europe and a few to the German colonies (with re-migration of descendants until present).

The poet you forgot was Hoffmann von Fallersleben, the music was stolen from Austria - but only after 1919. The anthem before was "Heil dir im Siegerkranz" with music stolen from the UK (God save ...). And many german states had their own anthem (Bavaria still has - the very last relic of Bavarian independence).

"Deutschland, Deutschland ..." was not imperialistic then when von Fallersleben wrote it (in exile on British Heligoland) because it did not exist for quite a while (and was banned during monarchy).



Thanks for correcting me on emigration, I skipped ahead on what era you were talking about. So now what you say makes sense.

In any case, Haydn 'stole' "God Save The Queen" -stylistically-, after visiting England and hearing it in person, and was forthright about his inspiration thereby. But his was the better piece of music, no question (well, to my musical sense, anyway).

It must be said, though, that the British national anthem is a better way to go about it, because it's decent music, but more important that it was written so that almost all could actually sing it. It was taken from music of a church hymn (hymns were written so that most people could sing it), with new words to praise whatever king or queen, a big middle finger to the pope, at the time.

God Save The Queen spans only a minor seventh. Das Lied Der Deutschen (Deutschland, Deutschland über alles) comprises an octave and a fourth (these are all musical intervals) and no, it was not at all imperialistic, if anything anti-imperialist, which is why my German teacher was such a dullwit (only for that class, thank goodness I had much better teachers for the other Deutschsprache classes). The American national anthem spans an octave and a fifth, which is idiotic because that eliminates at least half the population from ever being able to sing it.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 12:07:02 PM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 12:50:09 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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This has got to be the stupidest thread ever.

< Message edited by ThatDizzyChick -- 6/5/2016 12:51:34 PM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 12:52:20 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
The American national anthem spans an octave and a fifth, which is idiotic because that eliminates at least half the population from ever being able to sing it.

Just ask Roseanne Barr...


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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 1:02:26 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Did I ever claim Hilter was sane? He was a raving lunatic that should have lost power on the spot. "

Hitler was totally rational and sane, and intelligent and actually a Christian.

Which "christian" beliefs advocate genocide?

Go back to Stormfront, you whackjob.

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 2:17:27 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
The American national anthem spans an octave and a fifth, which is idiotic because that eliminates at least half the population from ever being able to sing it.

Just ask Roseanne Barr...



Yeah, she and at least twenty others. In the last some years.

When first played at the 'seventh inning stretch' of US baseball games, and when later mandated by Woodrow Wilson at certain national events, it was always played by concert bands.

The music itself was obviously considered more important. Then. But this is the US, so every sporting event has it at the beginning (including every effing minor league hockey game) now, so as to make any music-minded person completely sick of it, but more important, another opportunity to "make someone a star!" (oh, the radio announcers, oh, the reporters, oh ....) Or make (almost) every star! delude themselves into thinking they can actually do it.Or, the opportunity to make an ass of themselves, however it turns out.


The land of opportunity.




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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 2:32:13 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think part of the Dixie Chick's beef was that Dubya had the fake-iest Texas accent ever, wasn't it?


I don't recall that one, you might or might not be right.

What I DO remember is GHW Bush exhibiting the worst ever case of 'pandering fail' with his "I hate broccoli, I love pork rinds!" shtick.

At least Reagan was 'honest,' unto his warped view of the world. The poor sod actually believed every stupid word that ever came out of his mouth, even when selling Boraxo soap or telling us how trees cause pollution.






< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 2:39:32 PM >

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 3:17:38 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Did I ever claim Hilter was sane? He was a raving lunatic that should have lost power on the spot. "

Hitler was totally rational and sane, and intelligent and actually a Christian.

Which "christian" beliefs advocate genocide?

Go back to Stormfront, you whackjob.

Just because he believed in genocide doesn't mean that there are Christian beliefs that advocate such...wellll, unless you want to read about Joshuah's military campaign to retake Cannan.

Anyways, Hitler WAS actually Christian.

http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/churchhistory/godandhitler/

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 3:24:55 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Did I ever claim Hilter was sane? He was a raving lunatic that should have lost power on the spot. "

Hitler was totally rational and sane, and intelligent and actually a Christian.

Which "christian" beliefs advocate genocide?

Go back to Stormfront, you whackjob.


I have never been to stormfront.

Keep swallowing.

T^T

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 3:39:12 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"Anyways, Hitler WAS actually Christian. "

Yeah but he was not turn the other cheek, then the other cheeks and all that bullshit. You can be a Christian and wage war. And he waged war in his own country against who he perceived fucked it up, and actually they did.

Problems ensued, and he could not handle them.

But this comes down to some human things. If I tell you something that I believe in good faith to be true but it isn't, am I a liar ?

Well he believed he was doing good, he was ridding the country of those who he believed were fucking it up, and the economy. (which they were on the economy) He attacked the descendants of the People who had Christ crucified. Mel Gibson has similar views, and probably should not be elected Chancellor or President. Maybe the Prime Minister of a small island nation...

Bottom line is that the whole world has been socialistic since there were cities and states. To be zero percent socialistic yuo need to be out in the woods n shit all by yourself and enjoy your freedom to get eaten by a bear, bit by a poisonous snake and all that cool shit.

People simply do not want that much freedom these days.

T^T

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 4:06:54 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Hitler was totally rational and sane,

Bullshit, he was a raving maniac
quote:

and intelligent

Of that there is no doubt
quote:

and actually a Christian.

Nope, sorry, in fact he was quite anti-christian and persecuted the clergy quite heavily.

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 4:09:35 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		I am absolutely astounded by the amount of sheer fucking ignorance of history being displayed in this thread. Some of you must have slept through history class.

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 4:13:16 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Hey Diz, wake up. School is not where you really learn shit, only the basics. You want to stick to that go ahead but you will be put down by people who know WTF they're talking about.

T^T

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 4:18:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Hey, was the Stein gang approaching Hitler looking for an alliance in your textbook ? Was the CIA assassinating President Diem of Vietnam in your book ? Was the coup against Mossadeq in Iran in 1952 in your book ?

Go ahead and believe what you believe, what they told you to believe. You probably think Putin is stupid, but when it comes to him you are so outclassed it is ridiculous. You are not even qualified to bring Trump's intelligence into question, and that is saying something.

But by all means, go ahead.

T^T

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RE: MYTH BUSTED: Actually, Yes, Hitler Was a Socialist ... - 6/5/2016 4:20:45 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

Bottom line is that the whole world has been socialistic since there were cities and states. To be zero percent socialistic yuo need to be out in the woods n shit all by yourself and enjoy your freedom to get eaten by a bear, bit by a poisonous snake and all that cool shit.

People simply do not want that much freedom these days.


"'Freedom' to hear a Ravel masterpiece or to look at a Monet painting is NOT 'freedom,' if they did not find magically made paint, canvas, and a full orchestra with well made instruments while taking a shit in the woods at moment of inspiration!, unless, maybe, some one of them figured out how to make a highly figured brass instrument while taking a shit in the woods!"

Freedom.







< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 4:25:51 PM >

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