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Submissive to slave - 12/2/2004 6:29:50 PM   
blushes4u


Posts: 278
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline 		Ok I'm going to try to write this out so all can understand and maybe someone can respond. I have been submissive. I wrote that in my profile i am submissive. After reading some posts and searching some other things there are now mixed emotions that I may be slave. I have two questions: First is it possible to go from being submissive to being a slave? Second is there anyone that has had that happen? Thanks to all who respond.

_____________________________

*blushes* Kate
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/2/2004 8:59:29 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		greetings girl....

Submission is just one step on the way to surrender. A sub submits to her Dom and stops there. A slave eventually surrenders all she is to her Master. To be perfectly honest, most who call themselves slaves are only at the submission level. Many stop there and just call themselves slave. Some are working at going deeper into surrender.

You will find that if you ever reach the surrender point it will be both a wonder and scary time...all at the same time. You will also find that you keep pulling back once you hit it. It will take a while, possibly a long while until you finally get there full time. Let it happen in its own time. Don't rush it. If you try to rush you will only take longer to get to the true depths of surrender.

be well girl...

Malkinius

(in reply to blushes4u)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/2/2004 11:34:58 PM   
NYCLeatherFem


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		blushes4u,

It sounds to me as if you're quantifying submissive versus slave. They are two incredibly different headspaces and one does not necessarily follow the other on the spectrum of power exchange.

It is my belief that slave is the active choice to forego one's own will and abdicate one's own ability to choose, to another.

It is my belief that submission is the active choice to, of one's own will, acquiesce to another.

You may DESIRE the role of slave over submission, but the truth is, it isn't the role that determines the "level" or "depth" of one's submission it is the dedication one has to the exchange that is the determining factor. To me, its like comparing apples to oranges.

I wish you well on your personal journey.


***********************************


Malkinius,

I value everyone's opinion however I felt discomfort with your post.

I believe you have implied that submission preludes slave on the "power exchange spectrum". Perhaps in your Gorean belief system that is true and would/will be applicable if blushes4u choses to share your affinity for that particular expression.

It is my belief that this premise is not only invalidating to those who have chosen a role of submission, but falsely rewards and elevates on that "imaginary BDSM power exchange spectrum", those who chose slave as their role.


*Edited - typos*



< Message edited by NYCLeatherFem -- 12/3/2004 12:13:36 AM >

(in reply to Malkinius)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 6:14:17 AM   
cynnacent1


Posts: 340
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		i think i've seen this question before.. (am on dialup today and too impatient in searching allll the archived threads though-- proudsub will likely dig one up faster than i can anyway )

Regardless, i try not to focus on the labels too much. i for one am submissive. Am i also a slave? i dunno ... depends on how one might define a slave. i do know that based on what i have gathered of others' opinions a slave has no decision making power at ALL. my feelings, thoughts & opinions are taken very seriously by my Master, yet HE has the final say regarding ALL.

Labels, labels, labels ... *WE* don't need any stinking labels.

i am HIS and that is the only label or definition that truely matters here.



¸,ø¤º°cynnacent°º¤ø,¸ (proudly owned by, and devoted to INSIDEYOURMIND)

< Message edited by cynnacent1 -- 12/3/2004 6:15:31 AM >

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(in reply to NYCLeatherFem)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 8:17:29 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

proudsub will likely dig one up faster than i can anyway )


I will try later today, we're about to go out to brunch. But i will say there are dozens of threads on the definiton of sub vs. slave and every definition seems to be different.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to cynnacent1)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 9:53:49 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
ah the wonderful world of labels...

hunni... whilst you will recieve numerous ideas upon what makes a slave Vs. what is a submissive, the truth is that they are all personal ideas and ideals... and even each book you read will only give a slim definition. Theres another thread on this board titled '9 levels of submission'... but does a person have to be a sub just to follow those ideas? No. Should everyone who is a sub follow those ideas? No. It is nothing but a rough definition of someone elses ideals and how they feel.

acquiesce... 'to go along with something'.
That makes Angel uncomfortable. As submissive, one doesnt just 'go along with something' out of active choice... What a submissive does and is, isnt always an 'active choice', its who a person is... exactly like a slave. It isnt always what a person just ups and decided to be. Not all people decide they are a slave or sub or Dominant... they just 'are'.

sweetest blushes... Angel would say... You are who You are. Do not try and follow labels and definitions that others would place upon you. You may at times feel a desire to serve a person... but that does not mean you submit to them... and sometimes your submission to a person may be overwhelming and you find that some may have labelled it as the desires of a slave. The truth is... only you and the one you submit to... (ultimately the One You do submit to) has the ability to label you how they want... be it sub, slave, pet or His/Her little girl... just enjoy the journey and embrace the wave and don't let labels confuse you... they may only hinder Your path...

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to blushes4u)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 10:28:36 AM   
NYCLeatherFem


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

.

acquiesce... 'to go along with something'.
That makes Angel uncomfortable. As submissive, one doesnt just 'go along with something' out of active choice... What a submissive does and is, isnt always an 'active choice', its who a person is... exactly like a slave. It isnt always what a person just ups and decided to be. Not all people decide they are a slave or sub or Dominant... they just 'are'.


My personal definition of acquiesce is as follows, but you make valid points in your own definition.

acquiesce

\Ac`qui*esce"\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Acquiesced; p. pr. & vb. n. Acquiescing] [L. acquiescere; ad + quiescere to be quiet, fr. quies rest: cf. F. acquiescer. See Quiet.] 1. To rest satisfied, or apparently satisfied, or to rest without opposition and discontent.
Syn: To submit; comply; yield; assent; agree; consent; accede; concur; conform; accept tacitly.
v : to agree or express agreement.



< Message edited by NYCLeatherFem -- 12/3/2004 10:51:21 AM >

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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 10:53:10 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Indeed, there are many meanings of different words...and all definitions should be taken into account... one need only study the words 'slave' or 'submission' to see and appriciate such.

However with such a definition as provided here, then IMO, as well as a submissive, to be a slave could be the active choice to, of one's own will, acquiesce to another. However, that would be in a conformative and boring world(imo) and fortunately we exist in a more diverse place where not all slaves are the same, where not all submissives are the same and where sheep are scared...

Therefore IMO... a label is only a label... it is what is in the can that counts.


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to NYCLeatherFem)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 11:12:07 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I wrote that in my profile i am submissive. After reading some posts and searching some other things there are now mixed emotions that I may be slave.

Since this is becoming a debate about definitions, I think it would help to understand how you see the difference between submissive and slave. So, how about telling us why YOU think you may be a slave.

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"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to blushes4u)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 1:04:42 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Since this is becoming a debate about definitions, I think it would help to understand how you see the difference between submissive and slave. So, how about telling us why YOU think you may be a slave.


That's a great idea, then others can respond to that. I don't think it will do much good to bring up all the old threads with various definintions, so won't waste my time on that. But in case she missed the newest one with thoughts on slavery, here it is:

quotes and truisms

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 1:20:19 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

First is it possible to go from being submissive to being a slave? Second is there anyone that has had that happen?


I've commented on this many times in the past in various threads. I think you are whatever you and your partner think you are. Whether it be slave or submissive...top..bottom. Whatever.

Many have told me I am a slave over the years. Do I see myself as one? Not a chance. That is because my definition of slavery and their's are very different.
I don't have a safeword? Dangerous? Of course it is. However my Dom knows me very well. He will not make me do something I cannot do. So, why do I need one?
Would I advocate to anyone else not to have a safe word? Not a chance.
I don't assume people should be like me. I really don't expect anyone to agree with my thoughts. Actually I hope that they don't. That way we can debate and both learn.

However, I guess the answer is simple. Do you think you can go from submissive to slave if you meet the right person? If so, then yes it is possible.

(in reply to blushes4u)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 2:01:48 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
*simplyapplauds*

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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 3:02:29 PM   
blushes4u


Posts: 278
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline 		First let me apologize for posting something that had already been posted. I try to do searches first but i guess i am not doing it right or something.

Second the difference i see in Submissive and Slave is one has a choice of what he can or can not do, the other doesn't have a choice, that she gives all control to him to make necessary choices. Am i on the right line of thinking or am i way off base here?

Third, I apologize again for using "labels" being new i dont know what other ways of distinguishing what i am talking about, eventually i will just leave those "labels" on pillows and mattresses.

_____________________________

*blushes* Kate

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 3:16:41 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

eventually i will just leave those "labels" on pillows and mattresses.


LOL you better--"under penalty of law"

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to blushes4u)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 5:12:08 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

eventually i will just leave those "labels" on pillows and mattresses.


LOL you better--"under penalty of law"



:-O *calls the label police*

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to proudsub)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/3/2004 11:46:02 PM   
inadazey


Posts: 69
Joined: 10/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cynnacent1

Regardless, i try not to focus on the labels too much. i for one am submissive. Am i also a slave? i dunno ... depends on how one might define a slave. i do know that based on what i have gathered of others' opinions a slave has no decision making power at ALL. my feelings, thoughts & opinions are taken very seriously by my Master, yet HE has the final say regarding ALL.

Labels, labels, labels ... *WE* don't need any stinking labels.

i am HIS and that is the only label or definition that truely matters here.


I couldn't have described my feelings and my relationship with my Master any better than cynnacent stated hers, so my answer is "DITTO!" :D

(in reply to cynnacent1)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/4/2004 1:07:38 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Dont ever feel the need to apologise for asking a simple question...

I do not think of myself as a slave...as far as I understand from others, they do not see Angel as slave... yet all Angel does and the decisions that happen are only for the One she submits to. It is His decision... all power is His, all control is His. In the words of Rumi...I have no choice.
But it is also His decision what I am. If He wishes me to be submissive, I am... If He says I am slave... then I am. I do not 'label' what I am, It is not in my control, for that I have given over....

and thirdly... I am wondering... what is best... the cold side of the pillow or the side when its warm?

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to blushes4u)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Submissive to slave - 12/4/2004 2:55:20 AM   
blushes4u


Posts: 278
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline 		*quickly sews labels back on the items she took them off of and blushes* Ummm uhh thanks to all your responses, confusion is a wonderful thing...it keeps the mind busy 24/7 lol. I have spoken to someone that has cleared some of this up wonderfully and I thank him for that. I guess like any one there will always be questions with many different solutions.

*thinks the cold pillow is best because then you can have fun warming it with your body heat*

_____________________________

*blushes* Kate

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Submissive to slave - 12/4/2004 7:39:26 PM   
mydestinyunfolds


Posts: 8
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

First is it possible to go from being submissive to being a slave?


Yes I think it can happen over time... For me it started with trust. The more I trusted my Master the less I felt the need for limits and the more I gave of myself, the more i grow in my submission, becoming a slave.

I have seen a few people in this thread talk about not having rights/choices as slaves. I don't find that true I do have a choice but I choose to obey. Some say a slave has no ability to make decisions I don't find that true in my relationship either. I give my Master the control he delegates a certain amount of that control back to me. I also know that rights can be taken away for me at anytime.. But again that is what works for us.

The point I am trying to make is that only the people involved can decide what is right for them and their relationship. What works for my Master and me may not work for others. Please don't let others fill your head with black and white textbook answer, because the world is filled with a beautiful rainbow of knowledge. You just have to learn yourself and find out what works best for you and those involved.

I hope that helped some.

katie ( slave to Lordandmaster)


_____________________________

"To capture her body may last only a night...capture her mind and she will be enslaved for eternity."

"i rather have a moment of extraordinary then a life times of ordinary."

(in reply to blushes4u)
Profile   Post #: 19
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