Affirmative Action

Affirmative Action (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 2:58:40 AM)
I know everyone cries for the poor Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, defectives and whatnot, and I guess that is OK. Well I have a question and I want cogent answers. Let's say we have a race. I have to run ten miles. Blacks only have to run nine miles, Hispanics eight miles, Women seven miles, Jews six miles because of their butthurt from somebody else, homosexuals five miles, blind or deaf, four miles. When this race is over, how the fuck do you know who is the strongest ? T^T

Greta75 -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 3:06:20 AM)
Actually. Affirmative Action is strongly used in Malaysia. Infact, Government openly promote Malay First Rights and basically all other races are second class citizen, will get less benefits, or nothing, solely because they aren't the first right race. There are even things like 100k (in malaysian dollars) specifically for Malay race only, FOC, to help them to start their own business. It's the only country I think in the world, that gives more benefits, help and welfare to majority race than minority race. The result of that is, the richest and most successful people in their country is still the Chinese! With ZERO help from the government. You see. Strong people do not need Affirmative Action or help from the government. Many Chinese people chose to start their own business, make their own sacrifices and just rely on themselves. They don't bitch and complain about racism or being given less equal opportunities. They create their own mini economy, support their own kind, stick together, and work together in their own little system. For me, Malaysian Chinese people are my heroes, because they face so much open oppression in that country and they come up on top, without complaining or making any excuses, they simply learn to strive and become better regardless having everything against them, they simply focus on self-reliance and solutions and loopholes, they focus on finding solutions to their own problems and fix it themselves. The very reason why Singapore got cast out of Malaysia was because our Founder encouraged the Malaysian Chinese to fight for their equal rights. And the Malaysian government was not happy with that, and cast Singapore out. Even up till today, if any Chinese in Malaysia dares to bring up any racial inequality treatment. They will be accused of trying to create discord in race relations. It's a crazy Universe in there, where Malay first rights, is their Allah Given rights! And equality to other races is just unacceptable concept to them and forever will be. And I live in a country where it was built on pure meritocracy, every single race has equal chances, equal opportunity, so much that, the darkest skin race, and smallest minority, our South Indians, has monopoly on the top jobs, like lawyers, judges and surgeons. And the ones that lag behind, will have a little more help. And Malaysian Chinese, our neighbours, always remind me, how easy we have it. When you have equality. You have it easy. When you don't have equality and you aren't the privilege race. Everything you do and gain success at is incredible and an amazing feat because it's just alot harder.

Termyn8or -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 3:25:24 AM)
That was not all that responsive. But you're saying they have the affirmative action disease there too ? Too bad for you. At least we can shoot some of them. T^T

WhoreMods -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 5:05:15 AM)
If it bothers you that much, there's nothing to stop you from converting to Judaism or developing a taste for cock, is there?

Greta75 -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 5:13:58 AM)
quote: But you're saying they have the affirmative action disease there too ? Too bad for you. At least we can shoot some of them. In the US, it's about Affirmative Action for minority race. In Malaysia, it's about Affirmative Action for Majority race. Makes minority race stronger! In the US, minority race is still weak despite of affirmative action. So I think conclusion is, Affirmative Action makes people weak.

bounty44 -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 5:20:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I know everyone cries for the poor Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, defectives and whatnot, and I guess that is OK. Well I have a question and I want cogent answers. Let's say we have a race. I have to run ten miles. Blacks only have to run nine miles, Hispanics eight miles, Women seven miles, Jews six miles because of their butthurt from somebody else, homosexuals five miles, blind or deaf, four miles. When this race is over, how the fuck do you know who is the strongest ? T^T we don't. but your question presupposes a paradigm that isn't necessarily agreeable to liberals. for conservative types, competition is the crucible in which excellence is born. whether that excellence is measured in terms of strength, or speed, or academic prowess, people competing against each other fosters growth in the areas which matter, or that we find desirable. for liberal types, its about something else. redressing grievances for instances, social justice, the promulgation of their ideas of "fairness", ensuring outcomes, etc. one other thing while im here, and it seems like ive written this very thing before---competition implies judgment, and that's anathema to liberals.

blnymph -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 5:42:02 AM)
blind or deaf may come with age any way ...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 5:54:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: But you're saying they have the affirmative action disease there too ? Too bad for you. At least we can shoot some of them. In the US, it's about Affirmative Action for minority race. In Malaysia, it's about Affirmative Action for Majority race. Makes minority race stronger! In the US, minority race is still weak despite of affirmative action. So I think conclusion is, Affirmative Action makes people weak. Coddling people (regardless of race, heritage, etc.) will, generally, result in those people getting "weaker." They don't have to work as hard to get the same stuff, and there is a definite change in mindset when you finally get something that you've worked your ass off to get. You treat that thing differently. Gifting things to people who didn't go out and work for it usually ends up with those people not valuing the gifted things as highly as those that had to work for those same things. Affirmative Action, regardless of whether it's for the majority or a minority, is racism. You don't get less racism by combating racism with more racism. You get more racism.

kdsub -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 6:11:30 PM)
I believe it is time for affirmative action to end... but with a substitute. Why do we continue to base affirmative action on race? Why do for instance African Americans today need this aid? I would say because there is much less wealth in African American communities because of past racism and the best way to change this is with education. Financial aid is a necessity for this to work... But... Why not change the way this aid is given from race to financial standing and scholastic achievement? If African Americans are indeed lacking in wealth then they would still receive the lions share of aid. This aid would then help those that truly need it with out the stigma of race. If we are helping those that work hard for good grades but lack money for college who could complain about reverse racism as many conservatives like to do? Butch

DesideriScuri -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 6:23:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I believe it is time for affirmative action to end... but with a substitute. Why do we continue to base affirmative action on race? Why do for instance African Americans today need this aid? I would say because there is much less wealth in African American communities because of past racism and the best way to change this is with education. Financial aid is a necessity for this to work... But... Why not change the way this aid is given from race to financial standing and scholastic achievement? If African Americans are indeed lacking in wealth then they would still receive the lions share of aid. This aid would then help those that truly need it with out the stigma of race. If we are helping those that work hard for good grades but lack money for college who could complain about reverse racism as many conservatives like to do? Butch If it's not based on race, then it's not racism, reverse or otherwise. Being based on race is sorta in the word, no? When I was a Sr. in HS, my parents filled out the FAFSA, and, as it turned out, my Dad made too much money for me to qualify for financial aid scholarships. Had he not made nearly as much as he did (we were comfortable, always having enough to meet our needs, plus a little extra for some wants), I could have gotten scholarships or grants to go to college. Financial Aid is available based on economic status. Those that are in the greatest economic need tend to get more help than those that aren't as needy economically.

Termyn8or -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 7:14:47 PM)
Why didn't you apply to the UNCF. Oh. T^T

Greta75 -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 7:22:17 PM)
Clinton is sailing to the white house through Affirmative Action, if it is truly believed that 70% of women are voting for her because she's a woman. Personally, I can never see her victory as a sweet victory for female equality, if this is the way she's sailing to the white house. Why is it that when I think of Margaret Thatcher, I never see her play the woman's card. She is the first female PM of the UK, in a male chauvinist time. That's amazing and inspiring and she did it without using the woman's card.

BamaD -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 7:22:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I believe it is time for affirmative action to end... but with a substitute. Why do we continue to base affirmative action on race? Why do for instance African Americans today need this aid? I would say because there is much less wealth in African American communities because of past racism and the best way to change this is with education. Financial aid is a necessity for this to work... But... Why not change the way this aid is given from race to financial standing and scholastic achievement? If African Americans are indeed lacking in wealth then they would still receive the lions share of aid. This aid would then help those that truly need it with out the stigma of race. If we are helping those that work hard for good grades but lack money for college who could complain about reverse racism as many conservatives like to do? Butch We only call it reverse discrimination when a major determining factor is race. If race doesn't come into it then it isn't about race now is it.

kdsub -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 7:53:50 PM)
I am not criticizing conservatives... I happen to agree using race now, it served its purpose once, is racism... that is why I suggest financial standing and scholastic aptitude. Now if you or others start complaining about money spent in this manner then you are just narrow minded without a vision of the future. Butch

Greta75 -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 8:06:31 PM)
Meritocracy is the system you are looking for kd. It is exactly like that practiced in my country. Financial aid is 101% reliant on grades. But I guess the problem is that, many Ministers who are rich because our Ministers salary is high. Are also usually have study geniuses children, and then people gets like damn upset when rich kids get the top grades to get these aids. So in the end the rich also gets the free education from these scholarships. So our system is flawed that they don't consider financial standing at all. I do agree with you that financial standing and scholastic aptitude is probably the fairest way to dish out scholarships. But I guess in my country they don't want to consider financial standing as a factor at all, because it involves kids, and then it's such an honour to receive such things, that some kid should be deprived of it, because they were rich kids. So it's kinda hard to implement financial standing. Because when it comes to employment in Singapore specifically. Employers cares about all these stuffs. To receive one of these grant is a great resume asset.

Edwird -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 9:58:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I know everyone cries for the poor Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, defectives and whatnot, and I guess that is OK. Well I have a question and I want cogent answers. Let's say we have a race. I have to run ten miles. Blacks only have to run nine miles, Hispanics eight miles, Women seven miles, Jews six miles because of their butthurt from somebody else, homosexuals five miles, blind or deaf, four miles. When this race is over, how the fuck do you know who is the strongest ? T^T If we're talking about the work place, affirmative action was/is about letting people previously excluded to just get into the race at all. Back in the day when the excuse was "but they can hand out the cups of water and the towels. See? They can take part in the race, too!" If talking about higher education, the issue is a bit more sticky. If one is a genius, or close enough, he/she only needs to see an example or two of the problem presented, given a simple walk-through how the problem is solved, and they're off and running. The rest of us are average, or somewhat lower or higher than average students. The ones who have to study a bit, or a lot, to make good grades. But in any case, at least 'adequate' teaching is required to that end, and even more, a decent home and neighborhood environment that at least accommodates a child in that pursuit. When a child has never had any of the above from the start, and even the few 'really smart ones' will have never come across anything resembling a decent learning environment until they reach college, why should we penalize them for what they had no control over by denying them entrance to the university? There are as many remedial courses as needed at most any university to get from inadequate earlier education to college-ready standing. I was a HS dropout, so even though I passed the GED with out taking any classes for it, I knew I wasn't ready, especially in math. One English and two remedial math courses later, I was hot to trot! I don't disagree at all that various standards should be upheld. But to assume that everyone who didn't make the best grades in HS when the whole environment of their -life- militated against that doesn't have the capacity for making decent-or-better grades in college is in fact showing great laziness among those making that assumption with out even considering the context. In any event, once at the university, everyone is ultimately held to the same standard. I'm sure there are extra programs, extra help of some sort, for students coming from economically disadvantaged (ergo, educationally disadvantaged, 90% of the time) backgrounds. But at the end of the day, everybody's got to take (and pass) the same exams to pass the course.

Edwird -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/9/2016 10:34:14 PM)
None of that ideological 'but helping them only makes them weaker!' crapola disingenuously passed off as shinola everywhere else in the thread. Just facts on the ground stuff here, folks.

Termyn8or -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/10/2016 1:33:04 AM)
Giving help academically, like in math, IMO, is not charity. In fact I got as math tutor right now so I can design electronic circuits better. It is kinda working but not perfect, he has different ideas about what is important. But I don't care. T^T

Edwird -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/10/2016 1:38:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Giving help academically, like in math, IMO, is not charity. T^T That was pretty much my point.

BamaD -> RE: Affirmative Action (6/10/2016 1:49:15 AM)
There are as many remedial courses as needed at most any university to get from inadequate earlier education to college-ready standing. I don't know about most colleges. The first one I went to was a JR college which had no such programs. The 2nd I only attended for one semester and the subject never came up in my presence. At the 3rd, from which I graduated, I had frequent conversations with my department head on many subjects. One was the lack of preperation many of the students had for college. Part of the reason was that the school allowed black kids in without the kinds of credintials most schools required because they wanted to give them an opportunity. Unfortunaly, according to her, they had to either wash those same kids out or move forward slowly enough that the truely qualified students were held back from what they could truely do. Then the next year they had to do the same because the same students who were in the 2nd year had been brought to marginal freshman level. They had no remidial program. This resulted in history majors that I had class with who didn't know when the Civil war was, or which states left the Union. This was a 400 level course and I was the only person in the class who knew either. The programs like you are talking about often do not exist and most assuredly should. It would have made my degree worth much more and would have given those underprivilaged students the education they thought they were getting.

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