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RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 4:07:02 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Example: Close relative got a quarterly statement of his 401K. 26 funds...16 lost money.

Mutual funds: approx. only 11-12% beat the S & P 500 from year to year. Wharton School of business.

Regulations we needed:

Bogle recently was joined on stage by my partner, Rebalance IRA Managing Director Scott Puritz, to welcome a new Department of Labor rule that requires retirement financial advisors to be fiduciaries — and to disclose the real cost of investing to clients.

They pay their advisor a hefty fee — 1% of their assets each year — but few fully understand that mutual funds add another 1% or more to their costs each and every year.

High fixed fees, applied to the account balance regardless of investment returns, end up costing retirement investors between a third and half of their total gains over the decades, something almost none of them recognize until it's far too late.
"I'd change the structure — have them live up to the name and be mutual and be more honest in their disclosures. Cost makes the difference — and we haven't even talked about inflation and taxes," Bogle said.

In a letter to The Wall Street Journal published the next day, Bogle took issue with a Harvard Business School dean's argument that Wall Street is an important part of the U.S. economy. (I've been taking issue with this for over 40 years)
While it's true that raising capital is part of why Wall Street exists, that form of financing is absolutely dwarfed by speculation, Bogle noted.

(where does wall street get their profits from speculation ? The skim off our 401K's, our ROTH's and our Keough's all...tax deferred stipends from our paychecks, i.e., Billion$ per week.

"The proportion of Wall Street's activities that involves equity capital formation is minuscule. According to Sifma, equity underwritings totaled $256 billion during 2015, while the volume of stock trading totaled $48.6 trillion. So trading by speculators and investors represented 99.5% of this total activity on Wall Street," Bogle wrote.

"Trading is inevitably a zero-sum game before costs, and a 'loser's game' after deducting the high costs of all those transactions. In economic terms, trading is a 'rent-seeking' function which subtracts value from Wall Street's customers," Bogle wrote. HERE

Wall street does NOT finance any start-ups at all. Thus, wall street does nothing to create jobs in the broader economy.


John Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group. Started the first index fund.

Always 'lubbed' the guy. He always found ways to keep his funds the lowest cost in the industry.

And yes, I knew how to do the math, and yes I've benefited from Mr. Bogle's efforts in that regard.

Even their ETFs are lower cost than anybody else's.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 7:50:36 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Again the old refrain.


Yawn. Indeed.

And as usual, you demonstrate why partial knowledge is problematic. First you get huffy over mention of debt and commodities markets as similar to the Wall St. equity markets points, the leave Wall St. to go off on a rant about banking and regulation.

1) Calm down. Rest the soap box for a minute. Actually read these actual words instead of what's in your head, please.

2) Look, if you'd rather rant about banking, I'm your guy. What passes as banking today was usury and cons when I was a kid. What happened? Deregulation. And I'll grant that this does change the market somewhat -- I used to finance expansions, but the fees and policies are prohibitive today, so I work straight from capital in hand first. It saves me money on the one hand, but it also slows economic activity. The only winners here are bank schemes. I even closed all but one credit card, and that Discover card is just so I can rent a car and so forth (hard to do without a credit card).

3) Your Wall St. complaints, while I understand your frustration, are actually poor investment problems, rather than Wall St. problems per se (and Wall St. has many actual problems, again from some lax regulation...though banking is a worse mess...commodities too). You give the example of a friend owning 26 mutual funds with fees at 1% and 16 of them lost money. So many problems here, starting with (a) nobody needs 26 funds and (b) 1% is an outrageously high management fee. Invest by category or strategy, and I can't even imagine someone having 26 strategies without working at cross purposes. TIAA-CREF and Vanguard have decent funds at around 0.25% management or less. Don't pay higher. No load funds -- no upfront fees. An 2000+ Index Fund is a good start -- a lot of "smart" people never beat the market. Don't pay them not too. From there, pick funds that match your goals and strategies.

Now, (c) no body "loses" money when the market drops, unless they decide to sell at that point. In fact, this can favor a smart investor -- In my 20s, I used to sell front load mutual funds (the kind you shouldn't buy...I know...I did quit...), and ALL my clients made money, even when the markets dropped. Why? Because they listened to me and reinvested dividends. All the while the market was dropping, they were buying more and more shares at cheaper prices. When they needed to sell, the price per share might be lower than their original purpose, but because they had many more shares, they realized healthy profits.

Unless you tell investors that you're not going let them buy what they want, some investors are going to make inappropriate choices. Should that be illegal? I can tell you that professionals are legally obligated to give sound advice (I know, I know), but people aren't legally obligated to listen to it.

Even a struggling college student could retire a millionaire by doing a few smart things consistently. They have money for iPhones and cigarettes etc. -- they could find a few bucks to set aside. But people don't want to hear that generally. They want to know how to enter the world of training and make big bucks fast. As long as people want that, others will offer them "chances" to do it -- and mainly walk away with the cash. Investors have a responsibility to educate themselves and/or hire a competent and reputable financial manager. And get used to buy and hold, not churned. Don't even look at the market report--the day to day crap is largely irrelevant.

You can make money faster -- but the best means there is putting in motion good ideas for solving people's problems and doing a lot of hustle to put it in place, consistently add value, and keep at it. This is where "fast" cash comes from...but after long preparation. In the meantime, slow cash is the way to go. Overnight successes are usually years in the making.

4) So, back to markets . . . you can lament the same old refrain, but the reason is, it's still the answer to your rant, then and now. And you've offered nothing then or now to refute that, other than not liking the reality of it.

There is going to be financial trading. There's a need/want, and people with means to make it happen.

A MUCH better solution to your complaint is better and consistent regulation. Unfortunately, you're not going to get that from candidates like Trump and Clinton. You need a bunch of Sanders folk. Banking especially is a travesty today. But it's going to get worse before it gets better, because voters keep electing people on platforms of making it worse (deregulation).

America is in fact becoming a literal oligarchy (it already is a de facto one), doubly so now that the Democrats are following in the Republicans footsteps.

(5) If you really, really don't like Wall St., there are other ways to invest. It's hard to go wrong with real estate (assuming you actually get educated about it and don't make stupid purchases), though there are costs involved and just as many get-rich-quick schemes to avoid, as well as a lot of legal issues if you're going to have tenants -- this isn't my area at all...makes me nervous. But MOST people with wealth have a least some of it from real estate.

You can buy an existing business -- again, after getting educated and avoiding stupid investments. This is really the Wall St. approach, just on a private basis...especially if you're part owner.

You can create intellectual property to sell/license. Making money isn't really hard, frankly. It's just that most people have more objections to doing it than interest in making it happen -- whatever the market/economy/government is doing.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/20/2016 7:51:09 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 10:25:24 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Again the old refrain.


And as usual, you demonstrate why partial knowledge is problematic.


Mainstream news reports it doesnt mean you understand it.

The problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmOZ3jtGtCc

The solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfHmdRfvwcU&feature=youtu.be

and it will never be fixed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUKWfETSsIY




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/20/2016 10:42:44 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 10:51:29 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Imbecile spews reports it, means you don't understand it for sure.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 11:06:38 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		I wasted enough font ink trying to explain it to retarded illiterate asshelmets like you snottytail.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 7:06:05 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Again the old refrain.


Yawn. Indeed.

And as usual, you demonstrate why partial knowledge is problematic. First you get huffy over mention of debt and commodities markets as similar to the Wall St. equity markets points, the leave Wall St. to go off on a rant about banking and regulation.

1) Calm down. Rest the soap box for a minute. Actually read these actual words instead of what's in your head, please.

2) Look, if you'd rather rant about banking, I'm your guy. What passes as banking today was usury and cons when I was a kid. What happened? Deregulation. And I'll grant that this does change the market somewhat -- I used to finance expansions, but the fees and policies are prohibitive today, so I work straight from capital in hand first. It saves me money on the one hand, but it also slows economic activity. The only winners here are bank schemes. I even closed all but one credit card, and that Discover card is just so I can rent a car and so forth (hard to do without a credit card).

3) Your Wall St. complaints, while I understand your frustration, are actually poor investment problems, rather than Wall St. problems per se (and Wall St. has many actual problems, again from some lax regulation...though banking is a worse mess...commodities too). You give the example of a friend owning 26 mutual funds with fees at 1% and 16 of them lost money. So many problems here, starting with (a) nobody needs 26 funds and (b) 1% is an outrageously high management fee. Invest by category or strategy, and I can't even imagine someone having 26 strategies without working at cross purposes. TIAA-CREF and Vanguard have decent funds at around 0.25% management or less. Don't pay higher. No load funds -- no upfront fees. An 2000+ Index Fund is a good start -- a lot of "smart" people never beat the market. Don't pay them not too. From there, pick funds that match your goals and strategies.

Now, (c) no body "loses" money when the market drops, unless they decide to sell at that point. In fact, this can favor a smart investor -- In my 20s, I used to sell front load mutual funds (the kind you shouldn't buy...I know...I did quit...), and ALL my clients made money, even when the markets dropped. Why? Because they listened to me and reinvested dividends. All the while the market was dropping, they were buying more and more shares at cheaper prices. When they needed to sell, the price per share might be lower than their original purpose, but because they had many more shares, they realized healthy profits.

Unless you tell investors that you're not going let them buy what they want, some investors are going to make inappropriate choices. Should that be illegal? I can tell you that professionals are legally obligated to give sound advice (I know, I know), but people aren't legally obligated to listen to it.

Even a struggling college student could retire a millionaire by doing a few smart things consistently. They have money for iPhones and cigarettes etc. -- they could find a few bucks to set aside. But people don't want to hear that generally. They want to know how to enter the world of training and make big bucks fast. As long as people want that, others will offer them "chances" to do it -- and mainly walk away with the cash. Investors have a responsibility to educate themselves and/or hire a competent and reputable financial manager. And get used to buy and hold, not churned. Don't even look at the market report--the day to day crap is largely irrelevant.

You can make money faster -- but the best means there is putting in motion good ideas for solving people's problems and doing a lot of hustle to put it in place, consistently add value, and keep at it. This is where "fast" cash comes from...but after long preparation. In the meantime, slow cash is the way to go. Overnight successes are usually years in the making.

4) So, back to markets . . . you can lament the same old refrain, but the reason is, it's still the answer to your rant, then and now. And you've offered nothing then or now to refute that, other than not liking the reality of it.

There is going to be financial trading. There's a need/want, and people with means to make it happen.

A MUCH better solution to your complaint is better and consistent regulation. Unfortunately, you're not going to get that from candidates like Trump and Clinton. You need a bunch of Sanders folk. Banking especially is a travesty today. But it's going to get worse before it gets better, because voters keep electing people on platforms of making it worse (deregulation).

America is in fact becoming a literal oligarchy (it already is a de facto one), doubly so now that the Democrats are following in the Republicans footsteps.

(5) If you really, really don't like Wall St., there are other ways to invest. It's hard to go wrong with real estate (assuming you actually get educated about it and don't make stupid purchases), though there are costs involved and just as many get-rich-quick schemes to avoid, as well as a lot of legal issues if you're going to have tenants -- this isn't my area at all...makes me nervous. But MOST people with wealth have a least some of it from real estate.

You can buy an existing business -- again, after getting educated and avoiding stupid investments. This is really the Wall St. approach, just on a private basis...especially if you're part owner.

You can create intellectual property to sell/license. Making money isn't really hard, frankly. It's just that most people have more objections to doing it than interest in making it happen -- whatever the market/economy/government is doing.

Well I stand by my posts and while I won't disagree with almost all of what you have here, it's more a primer on how to be successful investing...other then on wall street. Largely also because the above doesn't make a case for or against wall street. You brought up debt and commodities in #3 I didn't.

The real problem is a govt. full of rent-seekers who allow not only a defacto monopoly on equity trading and should never have allowed the NYSE to buy the ASE.

There should have been could be (if we had a Teddy Roosevelt trust-busting approach) any number of exchanges around the country and business education as well as govt. should have been stressing a competitive environment for the trading of equities as exemplified by the fact that all online trading is still done through...a seat on the NYSE or NASDAQ. OTC and pinks (HERE) are almost all pure corruption.

Oh and I was in real estate for 10 years and one can never own too much real estate. As I've maintained and still maintain...we don't need wall street (NYSE or investment banking) and its makes no real contribution to the economy over all.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/20/2016 7:33:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Okie dokie. Let us know how that works out for you.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/21/2016 9:31:22 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Okie dokie. Let us know how that works out for you.


yeh even a broken clock is right twice per day, keep bragging about how healthy cancer is really is.



The Federal Reserve Cartel: The Eight Families
By Dean Henderson
Global Research, June 01, 2011
Region: USA
Theme: Global Economy, Oil and Energy

This article was first published on Global Research June 1, 2011

The Four Horsemen of Banking (Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Wells Fargo) own the Four Horsemen of Oil (Exxon Mobil, Royal Dutch/Shell, BP and Chevron Texaco); in tandem with Deutsche Bank, BNP, Barclays and other European old money behemoths. But their monopoly over the global economy does not end at the edge of the oil patch.

According to company 10K filings to the SEC, the Four Horsemen of Banking are among the top ten stock holders of virtually every Fortune 500 corporation.[1]

So who then are the stockholders in these money center banks?

This information is guarded much more closely. My queries to bank regulatory agencies regarding stock ownership in the top 25 US bank holding companies were given Freedom of Information Act status, before being denied on “national security” grounds. This is rather ironic, since many of the bank’s stockholders reside in Europe.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/25080




World Bank Insider Blows Whistle on Corruption, Federal Reserve
Written by Alex Newman

A former insider at the World Bank, ex-Senior Counsel Karen Hudes, says the global financial system is dominated by a small group of corrupt, power-hungry figures centered around the privately owned U.S. Federal Reserve. The network has seized control of the media to cover up its crimes, too, she explained. In an interview with The New American, Hudes said that when she tried to blow the whistle on multiple problems at the World Bank, she was fired for her efforts. Now, along with a network of fellow whistleblowers, Hudes is determined to expose and end the corruption. And she is confident of success.

Citing an explosive 2011 Swiss study published in the PLOS ONE journal on the “network of global corporate control,” Hudes pointed out that a small group of entities — mostly financial institutions and especially central banks — exert a massive amount of influence over the international economy from behind the scenes. “What is really going on is that the world’s resources are being dominated by this group,” she explained, adding that the “corrupt power grabbers” have managed to dominate the media as well. “They’re being allowed to do it.”

According to the peer-reviewed paper, whi
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/15473-world-bank-insider-blows-whistle-on-corruption-federal-reserve


The truth is out: money is just an IOU, and the banks are rolling in it
David Graeber

Back in the 1930s, Henry Ford is supposed to have remarked that it was a good thing that most Americans didn't know how banking really works, because if they did, "there'd be a revolution before tomorrow morning".

Last week, something remarkable happened. The Bank of England let the cat out of the bag. In a paper called "Money Creation in the Modern Economy", co-authored by three economists from the Bank's Monetary Analysis Directorate, they stated outright that most common assumptions of how banking works are simply wrong, and that the kind of populist, heterodox positions more ordinarily associated with groups such as Occupy Wall Street are correct. In doing so, they have effectively thrown the entire theoretical basis for austerity out of the window.

Institutions such as the Bank of England or US Federal Reserve were created to carefully regulate the money supply to prevent inflation. This is why they are forbidden to directly fund the government, say, by buying treasury bonds, but instead fund private economic activity that the government merely taxes.

It's this understanding that allows us to continue to talk about money as if it were a limited resource like bauxite or petroleum, to say "there's just not enough money" to fund social programmes, to speak of the immorality of government debt or of public spending "crowding out" the private sector.

What the Bank of England admitted this week is that none of this is really true. To quote from its own initial summary: "Rather than banks receiving deposits when households save and then lending them out, bank lending creates deposits" … "In normal times, the central bank does not fix the amount of money in circulation, nor is central bank money 'multiplied up' into more loans and deposits."

In other words, everything we know is not just wrong – it's backwards. When banks make loans, they create money. This is because money is really just an IOU.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity




AN ENTRENCHED ELITE OF VAST WEALTH HAS SPREAD ITS TENTACLES OVER THE EARTH WIELDING EXTRAORDINARY POWER OVER WORLD AFFAIRS


A wealthy and powerful oligarchy of banks, corporations, and dynastic families and institutions, runs the world. This elite group exercises control through interlocking boards of directors and stock ownership, acting through private clubs, societies and institutions, dominating national governments, both democratic and authoritarian.

Behind a facade of wealth and privilege, the octopus arms of the Plutocracy Cartel embrace every region of the globe, generating obscene profits from its activities, including weapons trafficking, funding wars and controlling the global trade in drugs. And, as they accumulate more and more wealth and power, they undermine democracy, exploit the weak and vulnerable, ruin lives, and kill hope for millions.
The endgame of this plutocracy is global financial domination and world government.
This website seeks to expose this hegemonic global shadow government that dictates to presidents and prime ministers, directs economic and foreign policies, controls the value of money, oversees drug trafficking, and funds wars.

THE PLUTOCRACY CARTEL'S GLOBAL NETWORK

DYNASTIC FAMILIES AND INSTITUTIONS
EUROPEAN DYNASTIC FAMILIES
HOUSE OF WINDSOR (Great Britain)
NETHERLANDS
BELGIUM
LIECHTENSTEIN
LUXEMBOURG
SPAIN
DENMARK
NORWAY
SWEDEN
MONACO

INTERNATIONAL BANKING DYNASTIES
ROTHSCHILDS
ROCKEFELLERS
KUHN LOEB
WARBURG
LAZARD
LEHMAN
GOLDMAN SACHS
ISRAEL MOSES SEIF

INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT BANKS
ROTHSCHILD BANK OF LONDON
ROTHSCHILD BANK OF BERLIN
WARBURG BANK OF HAMBURG
WARBURG BANK OF AMSTERDAM
LAZARD BROTHERS OF PARIS
ISRAEL MOSES SEIF BANK OF ITALY
KUHN LOEB BANK OF NEW YORK
GOLDMAN SACHS OF NEW YORK
J. P. MORGAN CHASE BANK OF NEW YORK
LEHMAN BROTHERS OF NEW YORK

THE CITY OF LONDON CORPORATION
THE "CROWN", THE "CITY", THE "SQUARE MILE"

THE VATICAN
THE VATICAN BANK

BANKS
CENTRAL BANKS
BANK OF INTERNATIONAL SETTLEMENTS
FEDERAL RESERVE
BANK OF ENGLAND
CENTRAL BANKS OF MOST NATIONS

GLOBAL BANKING CONGLOMERATES
THE 25 LARGEST BANKS
DEUTSCHE BANK
HSBC
BNP PARABIS
INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL BANK OF CHINA
MITUBISHI
CREDIT AGRICOLE
BARCLAYS GROUP
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND
JPMORGAN CHASE
BANK OF AMERICA
CHINA CONSTRUCTION BANK
MIZUHO FINANCIAL GROUP
BANK OF CHINA
CITIGROUP
AGRICULTURAL BANK OF CHINA
ING GROUP
BANCO SANTANDER
SUMITOMO MITSUI FINANCIAL GROUP
SOCIETE GENERALE
UBS
LLOYDS BANKING GROUP
GROUP BCPE
WELLS FARGO
UNICREDIT
CREDIT SUISSE

CORPORATIONS & FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS
TOP 50 TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATIONS AND BANKS WITH THE GREATEST GLOBAL IMPACT
1 - BARCLAYS PLC - GREAT BRITIAN
2 - CAPITAL GROUP COMPANIES INC. - UNITED STATES
3 - FMR CORP (Fidelity Management) - UNITED STATES
4 - AXA FR 6712 - SWITZERLAND
5 - STATE STREET CORPORATION - UNITED STATES
6 - JPMORGAN CHASE & CO. - UNITED STATES
7 - LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP PLC - GREAT BRITAIN
8 - VANGUARD GROUP, INC. - UNITED STATES
9- UBS AG - SWITZERLAND
10 - MERRILL LYNCH & CO., INC. - UNITED STATES
11 - WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT CO. L.L.P. - UNITED STATES
12 - DEUTSCHE BANK AG - GERMANY
13 - FRANKLIN RESOURCES, INC. - UNITED STATES
14 - CREDIT SUISSE GROUP - SWITZERLAND
15 - WALTON ENTERPRISES LLC - UNITED STATES
16 - BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON CORP. - UNITED STATES
17 - NATIXIS - FRANCE
18 - GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP, INC. - UNITED STATES
19 - T. ROWE PRICE GROUP, INC. - UNITED STATES
20- LEGG MASON, INC. - UNITED STATES
21 - MORGAN STANLEY - UNITED STATES
22 - MITSUBISHI UFJ FINANCIAL GROUP, INC. - JAPAN
23 - NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION - UNITED STATES
24 - SOCIÉTÉ GÉNÉRALE - FRANCE
25 - BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION - UNITED STATES
26 -LLOYDS TSB GROUP PLC - GREAT BRITAIN
27 - INVESCO PLC - GREAT BRITAIN
28 - ALLIANZ SE - GERMANY
29 - TIAA US 6601 - INDIA
30 - OLD MUTUAL PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY - GREAT BRITAIN
31 - AVIVA PLC - GREAT BRITAIN
32 - SCHRODERS PLC - GREAT BRITIAN
33 - DODGE & COX - UNITED STATES
34 - LEHMAN BROTHERS HOLDINGS, INC. - UNITED STATES
35 - SUN LIFE FINANCIAL, INC. - CANADA
36 - STANDARD LIFE PLC - GREAT BRITAIN
37 - CNCE - FRANCE
38 - NOMURA HOLDINGS, INC. - JAPAN
39 - THE DEPOSITORY TRUST COMPANY - UNITED STATES
40 - MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSUR. - UNITED STATES
41 - ING GROEP N.V. - NETHERLANDS
42 - BRANDES INVESTMENT PARTNERS, L.P. - UNITED STATES
43 - UNICREDITO ITALIANO SPA - ITALY
44 - DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION OF JP - JAPAN
45 - VERENIGING AEGON - NETHERLANDS
46 - BNP PARIBAS - FRANCE
47 - AFFILIATED MANAGERS GROUP, INC. - UNITED STATES
48 RESONA HOLDINGS, INC. - JAPAN
49 - CAPITAL GROUP INTERNATIONAL, INC. - UNITED STATES
50 - CHINA PETROCHEMICAL GROUP CO. - CHINA

MONEY LAUNDERING CORPORATIONS
HSBC
BANK OF AMERICA
JP MORGAN CHASE
CITIGROUP
WELLS FARGO
WESTERN UNION
AMERICAN EXPRESS

OIL CORPORATIONS
SHELL
CHEVRON
BRITISH PETROLEUM
EXXON

WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS
LOCKHEED MARTIN - USA
BAE SYSTEMS - BRITAIN
BOEING - USA
NORTHROP GRUMMAN - USA
GENERAL DYNAMICS - USA
RAYTHEON - USA

INSTITUTIONS, ORGANIZATIONS & JURISDICTIONS
SOCIETIES , CLUBS AND ORGANIZATIONS
UNITED NATIONS
WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION (WTO)
WORLD BANK
INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND (IMF)
COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS (CFR)
TRILATERAL COMMISSION (TC)
BILDERBERG GROUP
CHATHAM HOUSE / ROYAL INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (RIIA)
CLUB OF THE ISLES
PILGRIMS SOCIETY
CLUB OF ROME

THINK TANKS
CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES (CSIS)
BUSINESS ROUND TABLE
EUROPEAN ROUND TABLE OF INDUSTRIALISTS (ERT)
INTERNATIONAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE (ICC)
WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM
WORLD BUSINESS COUNCIL FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT (WBCSD)
BROOKINGS INSTITUTION
RAND CORPORATION
HERITAGE FOUNDATION
AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE

TAX-EXEMPT FOUNDATIONS
ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION
FORD FOUNDATION
CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT
GATES FOUNDATION
SOROS OPEN SOCIETY FOUNDATION

TAX HAVENS, SECRECY JURISDICTIONS AND MONEY LAUNDERING CENTERS
HONG KONG
WALL STREET (NEW YORK CITY )
STATE OF DELAWARE
CITY OF LONDON
LUXEMBOURG
MONACO
SWITZERLAND
ANDORRA
LIECHTENSTEIN
CYPRUS
PANAMA
BAHRAIN
DUBAI
UNDER BRITISH CONTROL
ISLE OF MAN
ISLAND OF GUERNSEY
ISLAND OF JERSEY
BAHAMA ISLANDS
BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS
CAYMAN ISLANDS
BERMUDA ANGUILLA
ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA
BARBADOS
DOMINICA
GRENADA
ST. LUCIA
ST. VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES
ST. KITTS AND NEVIS
TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS
MONTSERRAT
UNDER NETHERLANDS CONTROL
ARUBA
BONAIRE
CURAÇAO

THE PLUTOCRACY CARTEL OWNS OUTRIGHT OR CONTROLS
CENTRAL BANKS
LARGEST PRIVATE BANKS
CORPORATE MEDIA (AND MUCH OF THE ALTERNATIVE AND PROGRESSIVE MEDIA)
MOST INLFUENTIAL TAX-EXEMPT FOUNDATIONS
MOST INFLUENTIAL THINK TANKS
MAJOR UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER EDUCATONAL INSTITUTIONS
LARGEST ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS
POLITICIANS AND POLITICAL PARTIES
NATIONAL ECONOMIES
NATIONAL CURRENCIES
MAJOR STOCK MARKETS
LARGEST TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATIONS
LARGEST INSURANCE CORPORATIONS
LARGEST PHARMACEUTICAL CORPORATIONS
LARGEST ENERGY CORPORATIONS
MAJOR ENERGY RESOURCES INCLUDING OIL AND GAS
GOLD, DIAMOND AND ESSENTIAL MINERAL MINING AND DISTRIBUTION CARTELS
AGRICULTURAL LAND
WATER AND WATER SYSTEMS
LARGEST WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS
DRUG-MONEY LAUNDERING NETWORKS
INTERNATIONAL DRUG TRAFFICKING NETWORKS
MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS

THE PLUTOCRACY CARTEL
"At the center of the international financial system are the banks, asset management firms, oligarchs and financial dynasties that together control the network - or cartel - of the Global Financial Mafia. A network of roughly 150 of the world's largest financial institutions collectively control each other and a significant percentage of the network of the world's largest 47,000 transnational corporations. This unprecedented global financial power concentrated in a relatively small list of banks, insurance companies and asset management firms is itself controlled by rich and powerful individuals and families: the core constituency of the world of Global Financial Governance."
Andrew Gavin Marshall

"The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching aim - nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements [BIS] in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations ... Each central bank sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
Carroll Quigley in his book "Tragedy and Hope"

"There is a special breed of international financiers whose success typically is built upon certain character traits. Those include cold objectivity, immunity to patriotism, and indifference to the human condition. That profile is the basis for proposing a theoretical strategy, called the Rothschild Formula, which motivates such men to propel governments into war for the profits they yield... As long as the mechanism of central banking exists, it will be to such men an irresistible temptation to convert debt into perpetual war and war into perpetual debt."
G. Edward Griffin in his book "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

"States, most especially the large hegemonic ones, such as the United States and Great Britain, are controlled by the international central banking system, working through secret agreements at the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), and operating through national central banks (such as the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve). The state is thus owned by an international banking cartel, and though the state acts in such a way that proves its continual relevance in the global economy, it acts so not in terms of self-interest for the state itself, but for the powerful interests that control that state. The same international banking cartel that controls the United States today previously controlled Great Britain and held it up as the international hegemon. When the British order faded, and was replaced by the United States, the US ran the global economy. However, the same interests are served. States will be used and discarded at will by the international banking cartel; they are simply tools."
Andrew Gavin Marshall in his book "Global Power and Global Government"

"There is an established and well-defined identity and community of interest between a few leaders of finance, created and held together through stock ownership, interlocking directorates, partnership and joint account transactions, and other forms of domination over banks, trust companies, railroads, and public-service and industrial corporations, which has resulted in great and rapidly growing concentration of the control of money and credit in the hands of these few men."
Pujo Committee - House Committee on Banking and Currency, 1912
This is old news to anyone who didnt drown themselves in koolaid!
"During the past two centuries when the peoples of the world were gradually winning their political freedom from the dynastic monarchies, the major banking families of Europe and America were actually reversing the trend by setting up new dynasties of political control through the formation of international financial combines. These banking dynasties had learned that all governments must have sources of revenue from which to borrow in times of emergency. [and how difficult is it for ludicrous money to keep us in the state of perpetual 'emergency' (911) in which the constitution may be and has been perpetually overruled in the name of threats and war.] They had also learned that by providing such funds from their own private resources, they make both kings and democratic leaders tremendously subservient to their will."
Carroll Quigley in his book "Tragedy and Hope"

"This world is not run by The Presidents or The Prime Ministers, it is run by the global corporations and the banks. For it is these entities that control the money supply and it is these entities that decide which country lives or falls."
The Daily Bell, 2012

"We are ruled, though it may be difficult to imagine, by a small dynastic power structure, largely consisting of powerful banking families, such as the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and others. They emerged in controlling the financial system, extended their influence over the political system, the educational system, and, through the major foundations, have become the dominant social powers of our world, creating think tanks and other institutions which shape and change the course of society and modern human history."
Andrew Gavin Marshall

"People, governments and economies of all nations must serve the needs of multinational banks and corporations."
Zbigniew Brzezinski

"The control of the US, and of global politics, by the wealthiest families of the planet is exercised in a powerful, profound and clandestine manner. This control began in Europe and has a continuity that can be traced back to the time when the bankers discovered it was more profitable to give loans to governments than to needy individuals.

These banking families and their subservient beneficiaries have come to own most major businesses over the two centuries during which they have secretly and increasingly organised themselves as controllers of governments worldwide and as arbiters of war and peace."
Mujahid Kamran

"The structure of financial controls created by the tycoons of 'Big Banking' and 'Big Business' was of extraordinary complexity, one business fief being built on another, both being allied with semi-independent associates, the whole rearing upward into two pinnacles of economic and political power, of which one, centered in New York, was headed by J. P. Morgan and Company and the other, in Ohio, was headed by the Rockefeller family. When the two cooperated, as they generally did, they could influence the economic life of the country to a large degree and could almost control its political life, at least at the Federal level. They caused the "panic of 1907" and the collapse of two railroads, one in 1914 and the other in 1929."
Carroll Quigley in his book "Tragedy and Hope"

"The Global Mafiocracy: the banks, corporations, asset management firms, sovereign wealth funds, insurance companies and holding companies that collectively own each other and the wider network of global corporate and financial institutions, manifesting as a relatively small cartel of roughly 150 large financial institutions that wield unparalleled financial power in the modern world.

Behind the major corporate and financial institutions are individuals and families, smaller units of concentrated power who own the largest shares and steer the operations of the global cartel. These individual oligarchs and family dynasties - from the Rockefellers in the US, to the Wallenbergs in Sweden, Agnellis in Italy, Desmarais' in Canada, to the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia, Oppenheimer in South Africa, among others - control and.or influence large percentages of wealth within their respective nations and in the world of globalized financial and corporate networks."
Andrew Gavin Marshall

"The global banking cartel, centered at the IMF, World Bank and Federal Reserve, have paid off politicians and dictators the world over [Including Washington]. In country after country, they have looted national economies at the expense of local populations, consolidating wealth in unprecedented fashion - the top economic one-tenth of one percent is currently holding over $40 trillion in investible wealth, not counting an equally significant amount of wealth hidden in offshore accounts."
David DeGraw, 2011

"Powerful private families decide who controls the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan and even the European Central Bank. Money is in their hands to destroy or create. Their aim is the ultimate control over future life on this planet, a supremacy earlier dictators and despots only ever dreamt of."
F. William Engdahl in his book "Seeds of Destuction"

"The bulwark of the British financial oligarchy lies in its ageless and self-perpetuating nature, its long-range planning and prescience, its facility to outwait and break the patience of its opponents. The transient and temporal statesmen of Europe and particularly of Britain itself, who have attempted to curb this monstrosity have all been defeated by their limited tenure of confidence. Obligated to show action and results in a too short span of years, they have been outwitted and outwaited, deluged with irritants and difficulties; eventually obliged to temporize and retreat. There are few who have opposed them in Britain and America, without coming to a disgraceful end, but many, who served them well, have also profited well."
E.C. Knuth in his book "The Empire of The City", 1946

"The United States is owned and dominated today by a hierarchy of its sixty richest families, buttressed by no more than ninety families of lesser wealth. These families are the living center of the modern industrial oligarchy which dominates the United States, functioning discreetly under a de jure democratic form of government behind which is a de facto government, absolutist and plutocratic in its lineaments. It is the government of money in a dollar democracy."
Ferdinand Lundberg in his book "America's 60 Families", 1937

"The major objective of foreign policy is the acquisition of markets and economic power for a small group of giant multi-nationals under the virtual control of a few banking investment houses and controlling families."
Antony C. Sutton in his book "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler"

"Our global banking system is a global cartel, a "super-entity" in which the world's major banks all own each other and own the controlling shares in the world's largest multinational corporations.
... This is the real "free market," a highly profitable global banking cartel, functioning as a worldwide financial Mafia."
Andrew Gavin Marshall, 2012

"The big bankers of the world, who practice the terrorism of money, are more powerful than kings and field marshals, even more than the Pope of Rome himself. They never dirty their hands. They kill no one: they limit themselves to applauding the show.

Their officials, international technocrats, rule our countries: they are neither presidents nor ministers, they have not been elected, but they decide the level of salaries and public expenditure, investments and divestments, prices, taxes, interest rates, subsidies, when the sun rises and how frequently it rains."
Eduardo Galeano

"At issue is who shall rule the world: the emerging 1% as a financial oligarchy, or elected governments. The two sets of aims are antithetical: rising living standards and national independence, or a renting economy, austerity and international dependency."
economist Michael Hudson

A PLUTOCRAT-CONTROLLED NEOLIBERAL ECONOMIC ORDER AND GLOBAL AUTHORITARIANISM
Inequality in America is extreme. Authoritarianism is increasing. Before we realize it, America's democratic experiment will have ended in failure, and possibly chaos. Societies with extreme inequality have always come to ignoble ends. The question is whether America will end with a whimper, or with a bang.

American hubris has resulted in global economic chaos and strategic confrontation. We are no longer the only superpower. Both Russia and China, once great empires, want a second chance at global prosperity and respect. As the U.S. is forced by circumstances to abandon its role as the sole global policeman and economic powerhouse, others are ready to take its place. But, dying empires are known to flail about and fight viciously to preserve their former hegemony. And, it looks like the United States will not go quietly into the night.

U. S. power was at its peak following World War II. America ruled the globe economically and militarily. It's influence was ubiquitous and its soft power seemingly unlimited. But, arrogance and greed have turned the United States into a pariah. We are feared for our power, but no longer respected for our institutions. Inequality, injustice, corruption, and our projection of violence, have turned much of the world against us.

Throughout the 20th century and into the 21st century, the United States rhetorically lauded the benefits of democracy, while undermining democratically-elected governments everywhere. U.S.-sponsored coups and "color revolutions" dressed-up as spontaneous popular uprisings, have shown that democratic governments are not well-suited to withstand 21st century 'realpolitik'.

Developing countries, which once looked to the United States as a model for political and economic development, are re-evaluating whether democracy is their best political choice. As the economic and political might of Russia and China grow, so does their influence.
And, as the United States repeatedly demonstrates how easily it can manipulate elections and exploit popular unrest, while hypocritically preaching about democracy, developing countries may conclude that authoritarian government may be their best survival option.

The result: democracy will be left in the dustbin of history.

On the economic front, a new feudalism is emerging.
[its the old feudalism pretended not to exist and presented to the public in euphemisms of freedom that until the age of the internet was too difficult to put together.] (and still is for many)
http://www.plutocracycartel.net/

Finally:



Bernanke Admits Printing $1.3 Trillion Out Of Thin Air
By Greg Hunter On April 21, 2010 In Political Analysis
USAWatchdog.com

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke admitted the central bank created $1.3 trillion out of thin air to buy mortgage backed securities. This shocking admission came from the Joint Economic Committee hearing on Capital Hill last week. I was dumbfounded when I saw Bernanke shake his head in the affirmative as Representative Ron Paul said, “Well, where did you get the money? You created this money. So you did monetize debt, and that went into the banking system.” I was amazed he admitted this. I looked up the original hearing on C-Span to make sure the clip was not edited. It was not.


I have news for these people, the only reason this country like mama is called a democracy is because 'parliament' same as britain is a democracy and that is where it ends. Democracy for citizens outside of rigged voting machines to vote for their new overlords begins at the end of the barrel of a gun of you dont get it. The overlords seen to it anyone who has bucked their system is dead. (lincoln, jfk etc) That new world order is the us and its been here over 200 years, right along with the everything they claim is coming. The claim is wrong, its here and has been here for years, its growing along with all the pursuit of unhappiness with it.

Yeh Alice good luck with that!
simpleton




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/21/2016 10:03:01 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		. . . and that's why banking is the real problem here.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/21/2016 10:37:27 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		If you mean banking in its broadest terms which includes the markets and the gubmints they et al have in their pockets by means of their corporate coup' infiltration then we agree.

They are fully aware that by the time the dumb assed people figure out whats been done to them that they will have enmassed such an incredible fortune it will be too late for anyone to change the momentum of their power and corruption. Removing arms with the up your ass surveillance we have today assures total enslavement to them.

This was all known since the beginning, of the creation of the 'more perfect tax collecting union'. Yeh thats the underlying purpose, in front of everyones noses and accepted because when taught as children we are before the age of understanding the true ramifications.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
— Thomas Jefferson.

“The power of all corporations ought to be limited, […] the growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”
— James Madison
The Founding Fathers on war.

“He who is the author of a war, lets loose the whole contagion of hell, and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death.”
— Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V, 1797

“War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.” -Thomas Jefferson
The Founding Fathers on liberalism.



If legally, corporations are people, too, then should they be allowed to vote? If not, should they be allowed to influence elections by monetary contributions?
It seems to me that corporations are allowed a voice in our political system with their money. Yet they are not really allowed to vote, which means corporations are not meant to participate in the political process. They do so indirectly, skewing the outcome.

2 Answers
David Silvers, Attorney
878 Views • David has 30+ answers in Politics of the United States of America
It's important to clarify some terminology here. Corporations are not "people", but they are legal "persons." Assume, for example, that you purchase a product at McDonald's and you get food poisoning. You would sue McDonald's the corporation, because it is a legal person. If it was not, then you would have to sue, say, all of the shareholders, the directors, management, etc.

Second, corporations are prohibited from making "contributions" in federal elections (state laws vary). A contribution goes directly to a candidate. In contrast, the spending you're probably thinking of is independent expenditures; "super PACs" are, legally, independent expenditure-only committees. An independent expenditure: expressly advocates for the election or defeat of a clearly identified candidate, and is not made in concert/cooperation with a candidate for office. See, 2 U.S.C. § 431 : US Code - Section 431: Definitions.

That is to say, IEs essentially are speech. Justice Scalia made this point pretty directly in his Citizens United concurrence:

"The [First] Amendment is written in terms of “speech,” not speakers. Its text offers no foothold for excluding any category of speaker, from single individuals to partnerships of individuals, to unincorporated associations of individuals, to incorporated associations of individuals—and the dissent offers no evidence about the original meaning of the text to support any such exclusion. We are therefore simply left with the question whether the speech at issue in this case is “speech” covered by the First Amendment . No one says otherwise. A documentary film critical of a potential Presidential candidate is core political speech, and its nature as such does not change simply because it was funded by a corporation."
Written 18 Mar 2013 • View Upvotes


More Answers Below

Todd Allen
I live in the United States and try to be an informed citizen.
201 Views • Todd has 240+ answers in Politics of the United States of America
I would very much prefer to see an amendment to the Constitution that spending cash is not equivalent to protected speech, period. Freedom of speech means the right to speak, not the right to buy others to speak for you and amplify your voice.

If I'm involved in a court case, I can't legally slip a wad of cash to the judge. I shouldn't be able to make a "direct donation" to any Congressman or Senator, either.

I also can't do something "in kind", such as using my own money to buy some commercials for the landscaping business the judge does on the side. Since a legislator's livelihood is being in office, I shouldn't be able to purchase them commercials or the like promoting that. That's an in-kind bribe.

Money should make no difference in elections. Candidates should be publicly funded at the same level each, and be permitted to spend only that money on the campaign. Equating money with speech means those with more of it drown out all the other voices, and turns our election system from "one person, one vote" to "one dollar, one vote". That's a recipe for an oligarchy, not a constitutional republic with truly democratic elections, and I'd rather not live in that type of place.



The whole fucking system is one gigantic crookocracy built upon stacking the deck of EVERYTHING in favor of corporate power from the top down. Democracy is the same, 'my gang is bigger then your gang' mentality and neither protect the rights of individuals.

Worse, the only way it can effectively be changed has long since risen to the level of armed conflict by countries et al, own citizens as the top tier leave no other options than dissonant delusions as a remedy. Its a volcano and the pressure is slowly building.





Its no coincidence that everything associated with the british debt model is fucking bankrupt and now we have ohaha care.


Corporations originally had expiration contracts and had to be voted on dependent upon good behavior in service to the people at large.

They also had to pay taxes just for being a corporation because as corporations they have enormous leverage the individual does not.

Well that has long since been undermined by paid off judges and legislators and now the people pay all the taxes their individual rights are nearly non existent and corporation control everything with the very leverage this country was designed to prevent.

High taxation for corporations and graduated increases for the uber wealthy and low taxation for the individual is the only thing that levelled the playing field and its long gone and beyond the understanding of most corporate statists today.

The bulk of all wars protect global mega corporate interests not yours or mine.






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/21/2016 10:54:02 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/21/2016 8:59:00 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"even people with no stock market education should be asking how the fuck can gas prices change from 4bucks/gal down to nearly a buck and now surge back up if the pricing were based upon supply and demand?"

Oil prices dropped like a rock because western based oil companies, in concert with the US government (allowing fracking for example) flooded the market to punish Russia (via Gazprom) for being uncooperative in their takeover of Ukraine.

Now they have found out that it is not working because for one, Russia's economy is strong enough to withstand it longer than the US or most EU governments. So now they are back to price gouging.

This was all over a pipeline that they wanted control over in Ukraine but now that plan is dead because there is a new one in another country and Gazprom, or whatever they're called now, is doing just fine. We are talking a significant portion of the natural gas market in Europe. Ukraine was also stealing gas from Russia and last I heard they were in court about it. There is no question, the only thing in contention is the amount.

And now they are lifting the sanctions on Iran. Iran was able to sell their oil for real gold to China, so they had a good fucking laugh as well. India had applied for an exemption but China just said fuck you.

And Cuba, all those years of embargo and those people have a pretty good standard of living. If you ask Europeans, better. The Castros are well liked by the people, just like Chavez of Venezuela who they also tried to depose. And the got better health care and in fact somewhat before Obama normalized relation with them they cam out with a new cancer drug.

These fucking people think they can pick and choose leaders of other countries like the political parties do here. They are fucking wrong and they do not understand shit about other cultures. How many years did they have a price on Bin Laden's head ? Nobody, and I mean nobody betrayed him. It took years to find him because money just doesn't talk everywhere. Some people have ideals and moral but of course they have no idea of that concept. They think everything, and I mean everything is for sale. And the psychologically project that, thinking that because they are for sale to the highest bidder so is everyone.

T^T

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/22/2016 7:03:57 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Real1 and T8r both could have summed it all up with this:

"There is a special breed of international financiers (and globalists in general) whose success typically is built upon certain character traits. Those include cold objectivity, immunity to patriotism, and indifference to the human condition. That profile is the basis for proposing a theoretical strategy, called the Rothschild Formula, which motivates such men to propel governments into war for the profits they yield... As long as the mechanism of central banking exists, it will be to such men an irresistible temptation to convert debt into perpetual war and war into perpetual debt."
G. Edward Griffin in his book "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

"States, most especially the large hegemonic ones, such as the United States and Great Britain, are controlled by the international central banking system, working through secret agreements at the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), and operating through national central banks (such as the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve). The state is thus owned by an international banking cartel, and though the state acts in such a way that proves its continual relevance in the global economy, it acts so not in terms of self-interest for the state itself, but for the powerful interests that control that state.

The same international banking cartel that controls the United States today previously controlled Great Britain and held it up as the international hegemon. When the British order faded, and was replaced by the United States, the US ran the global economy. However, the same interests are served. States will be used and discarded at will by the international banking cartel; they are simply tools."
Andrew Gavin Marshall in his book "Global Power and Global Government"


The facts now are that until there is a massive voter uprising at the polls, noting will change and maybe...not even then.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/22/2016 7:06:36 AM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/22/2016 9:56:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Marshall's statement is a pretty big leap in logic based on an unsupported claim (beyond the usual conspiracy rants). It also ignores simpler, more logical explanations.

First, the Fed can be eliminated tomorrow by Congress. Well, today actually, if they wanted to. They created it; they can end it. And they created it to be relatively immune from day to day politics, which, if you look at what day to day politics is, it is, if not perfectly.

The shift from Britain to the US referenced is a different matter altogether. Twice arbitragers forced the Bank of England to devalue the currency, using nothing more than the discrepancy between the stated value and the actual market value. Arbitragers turned their attention next to the US, but Nixon (wisely) cut ties to the gold standard and our Bretton Woods obligation, causing a bunch of market swings as it sought its value, then settling more or less. Otherwise, they would have devalued US currency as well.

That's all history. Today, the pound, US dollar, euro and yen are "hard currency," ones globally sought as inherently more stable than other currency.

Now...if you want to make the case that nation states are lagging far behind international corporation in global presence and influence, there's no doubt about that. As long as nations -- and the US is one of the worst offenders here -- resist any meaningful international law or law enforcement, institutions with large capital will continue to rule economically.

You don't need any secret shadow government theories. It's a straight-forward economic reality.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/22/2016 7:29:18 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Actually Marshall's statement is right on the money as exemplified by the the choice (not failure) not to act to on Putin and other international pariahs when they stash their stolen booty in the Euro or US dollar as we type. Meaning as quite a few have pointed out, that the western cartels as a direct result, [is] a sponsor of the various international competitions...military and political.

(ex: whether you like the agreement or not, this power was the leverage the west used to even get the Iranians to the table over their nuke program)

This also brandishes the basis upon which these powers willfully disdain the luxury of so-called patriotism and act only in their own self interest and whatever happens to the various states...happens. And this can occur with the complete and satisfactory knowledge that the US navy will still be steaming the seas.

You see as in fact, after WWII the UN and international powers sought to create a system that would not only avoid the rigidity of previous international monetary systems, but would also address the lack of cooperation among the countries on those systems. The classic gold standard had been abandoned after World War I. England returned in 1932 only to see after WWII...a series of devaluations and running to the IMF for help. In the interwar period, governments not only undertook competitive devaluations but also set up restrictive trade policies that worsened the Great Depression. (more straight forward economic realities ?)

The pound Sterling has thus in fact, been devalued 3 times, 49, 67 and 1976 for post war debt write downs and in each case BTW, a reflection of the dominance of the dollar.

Meanwhile arbitragers do not determine any value, they merely profit from the spreads as reflected by speculators. There is no such thing in currency as a 'market' value. All currencies are only 'worth' what the last speculator paid.

The Nixon shock which only ended direct conversion of the US dollar into gold, ended the Bretton Woods system whereby the dollar had been established as the currency against which all other currencies were valued. As far as any of 'the usual conspiracy rants' one could easily suggest that the fed was behind that with inflation in mind, enabling the US govt. and consumer to spend now unanchored money (currency)...like drunken sailors...which [they] have.

So whether one is inclined to think that there is no power behind the throne making these decisions, the obvious result has the US projection of military power, financial power in banking, and also trade thus either establishing or 'forcing' the dollar as the world's reserve currency is what results in your so-called 'straight forward economic realities.' That's how 'hard' currencies...become hard ? You force international traders to use them, bank in them and nervously rely upon them.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/22/2016 7:37:33 PM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/22/2016 7:33:58 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You have trouble sleeping at night, don't you.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Wall street...[most is] unnecessary, I've said for ... - 6/23/2016 12:53:21 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Well my last was 7:33 PM but no, I don't have any trouble sleeping at night but many millions of people due to the economic suffering and turmoil caused by engineered wars, recession and depressions...did.

I personally don't see the end of those problems in site either, they having been way too successful.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
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