RE: 2nd Female PM for UK!

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Dvr22999874 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/12/2016 4:08:15 PM)
I didn't hang around for Blair/Brown P.S. smile and maybe I am blaming Thatcher because she was in the drivers seat when things went really pear-shaped for workers. I will hang my hat on her for a convenient peg though as the cause of many of Britain's ills from that period. Many things were going downhill and she (with her sycophantic ministers of course) did little or nothing to stop that slide and in many cases she helped them on their way. she seemed to have some kind of pathological hatred for unions but was an expert at the three card trick..................let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing. you are right though, industry etc HAD been going down hill since the end of WW2.........................The merchant navy could still have remained a contender though if she had not allowed foreign crews to take Brit jobs on Brit ships ( as is being done in Australia today). Britain is an island and as an island a lot of her trade has to be done by sea, so let's get rid of all the protections that will keep us supplied by our own ships and crews. yep, that makes sense and as I said, it's happening here today.

blnymph -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/12/2016 5:09:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Something is not right here. Germany has the weirdest education where it's very very slow. Most people get their bachelor degree only at 30 yrs old. I mean the exchange students from Germany here are always like between 27 to 29, and they are studying in our technical college with 17 to 18 yr olds who will graduate by 20 or 21, whereas in Germany, it always seem the education system is so long and so slow, average age of graduation is 30, and that's not a Masters or a PHD. Whereas US people can get their Bachelor degree by 21 or 22 I think. If I had picked US instead of Australia. I could get into a college at 17, and graduate by 20. After all, all you need is SATs. to sort things out: Abitur/Matura (access to university) at 18/19 + 3 years for Bachelor degree at 22/23 + 2 years for Master degree at about 24/25 PhD or other Doctorate - depends, on average + 3years minimum at maybe 28 Habilitation (postdoc degree, only here in Austria, and Poland) open end some can do faster, some with a professional training before university are older than average whoever you met were probably postdoc, who else can spend exchange time in singapore? ... where obviously there are no postdoc courses quote: I think it evens out and this logic of yours does not make sense.

Greta75 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/12/2016 10:19:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph to sort things out: Abitur/Matura (access to university) at 18/19 + 3 years for Bachelor degree at 22/23 + 2 years for Master degree at about 24/25 PhD or other Doctorate - depends, on average + 3years minimum at maybe 28 Habilitation (postdoc degree, only here in Austria, and Poland) open end This is really strange, I have met many german people who tells me they don't graduate till 30 yr old. Because we were even talking about average University graduation age. Perhaps due to English not being their first language, or something and they were actually pursuing PHD and they assume it's the same thing as bachelor? Is it common for most German to go all the way to PHD? quote: whoever you met were probably postdoc, who else can spend exchange time in singapore? ... where obviously there are no postdoc courses The technical colleges they do exchange programs here with, are like not even bachelor level. They have diplomas or advance diplomas. So I don't know why the students that do come from Germany are so old. Then they attend the same level class as the 17 to 18 yr olds. Germany has this apprenticeship education program that is very popular, those that want to learn a trade skill, is that the one that finishes alot later? From what I understand, Germany credits their vocational programs to why alot of people didn't choose to go University. I googled that in the past, all universities in Germany only offered masters and no bachelors, that could be why too. Apparently bachelor degrees are the new thing in Germany.

Greta75 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/12/2016 10:33:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird First you say how great Germany is for being able to buy good merchandise at a good price, and now you turn around and immediately find something to complain about. Edwird, you are behaving juvenile and also again your response does not make any sense. I made no complaint. I simply said as a matter of fact that Germans graduate later in life than Americans. Perhaps I am outdated about German education now, but at least I found out why, because bachelor didn't exist in their country in the past, they all could only have masters. And it just make sense that by the time germans graduate, versus the same age band where americans have been working for some time already. Americans would have more spending power by then. That's all i am saying. It's not a complaint. quote: Which would you rather have; that German students graduate at 20 and when you visit the shops prices are higher, or that they graduate at 30 and prices are lower? Something to carp and complain about either way, right? So why are you complaining? Your argument was that Americans has no spending power because they got student loan debt correct? I am simply demostrating that within the same age group, Americans have the same or even more spending power as germans as students. So it makes no difference in the end. When germans graduate, they have no debt, if you say their education is completely free for higher education, I don't know how true this is, but then, they would have just their first job and starting pay. The american worker would have already been working a few years, and I would assume, like most normal graduates, they get pay increments. It would reach the same spending capacity and place. The problem with the US are the taxes. No idea why you guys pay the same tax as socialist countries, but get zero socialist benefits. We don't get socialist benefits, but we pay stupidly low taxes.

Phoenixpower -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 3:19:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Something is not right here. Germany has the weirdest education where it's very very slow. Most people get their bachelor degree only at 30 yrs old. I mean the exchange students from Germany here are always like between 27 to 29, and they are studying in our technical college with 17 to 18 yr olds who will graduate by 20 or 21, whereas in Germany, it always seem the education system is so long and so slow, average age of graduation is 30, and that's not a Masters or a PHD. Whereas US people can get their Bachelor degree by 21 or 22 I think. If I had picked US instead of Australia. I could get into a college at 17, and graduate by 20. After all, all you need is SATs. That's actually not quite true... I know here in Germany countless folks who study in the beginning of their 20s and finish it somewhere around middle of their 20s...over here its rather unusual to study as late as you say. I studied myself in the UK aged 29-32 and why? Cause in the UK the salary for people working in care homes is a joke...here back home I have a very nice middle income in that field, in the UK you can just survive on that ridicioulus income...and that in a house share, not in a rented flat or house as it is here...owning a car was out of question for me in the UK as I just did not fancy even more costs in that expensive life there... So for instance my reason to study in the UK was a) as I was bored to death of working with colleagues who didn't have to undergo the 4 year qualification which we have to undergo over here to work with these clients (in Bavaria even 5 years) b) I also had to think about my future and my future brings me nowhere with a 16k income in London... Therefore studying late has nothing to do with our school system over here, more likely with a change of life plans in my view. Over here you either go to school for 9, 10 or 12/13 years and then you either go to further schools after year 9 or 10 to achieve the "Abitur" (what you can reach after year 12/13) at some point or you go through 2-5 year apprenticeships for a job...most of them take 2-3 years by the way (during the apprenticeship you work in a company and attend vocational school to learn the theory to it) and the ones after year 12/13 often go to University, though I do know a fair amount, too, who didn't have an interest in doing so and went for an apprenticeship instead... I don't quite see what is weird on that...but ok...I am from Germany so of course it is simple for me how it works here...

blnymph -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 3:37:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph to sort things out: Abitur/Matura (access to university) at 18/19 + 3 years for Bachelor degree at 22/23 + 2 years for Master degree at about 24/25 PhD or other Doctorate - depends, on average + 3years minimum at maybe 28 Habilitation (postdoc degree, only here in Austria, and Poland) open end This is really strange, I have met many german people who tells me they don't graduate till 30 yr old. Because we were even talking about average University graduation age. Perhaps due to English not being their first language, or something and they were actually pursuing PHD and they assume it's the same thing as bachelor? Is it common for most German to go all the way to PHD? quote: whoever you met were probably postdoc, who else can spend exchange time in singapore? ... where obviously there are no postdoc courses The technical colleges they do exchange programs here with, are like not even bachelor level. They have diplomas or advance diplomas. So I don't know why the students that do come from Germany are so old. Then they attend the same level class as the 17 to 18 yr olds. Germany has this apprenticeship education program that is very popular, those that want to learn a trade skill, is that the one that finishes alot later? From what I understand, Germany credits their vocational programs to why alot of people didn't choose to go University. I googled that in the past, all universities in Germany only offered masters and no bachelors, that could be why too. Apparently bachelor degrees are the new thing in Germany. Maybe there is a confusion about terms not meaning the same: you are right insofar as the bachelor degree was only introduced after the Bologna agreement in 1998; before that the lowest university degree was Magister. In German speaking countries Diplom (which is not the same as a diploma) was one of the highest degrees in certain technical studies like architecture but also some like psychology. It was/is not a degree awarded by a university but a state exam. Nowadays is it roughly equivalent to a Master degree. In crafts and trades there are 3 stages: apprentice (Lehrling 3 years), journeyman (Geselle, another 3 years usually), master exam (Meister - not the same as the university degree). As a Meister is equivalent to a Fachabitur you can study certain courses at a technical college and some universities afterwards. You can start a workshop or a business as a Geselle, for training apprentices you need to be a Meister.

MariaB -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 8:51:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Telling me that Germany did it with their unions, doesn't explain why UK can't do the same with their Unions, when they had the Unions for so many years until Thatcher came and took them out because they couldn't achieve what Germany achieve is the big question. Its difficult to answer someone who is clearly a selective reader but I'll give it a try in the hope that you will, if you are interested enough in this sort of debate, go off and do your homework on both sides of this story. The welfare state wasn’t failing back in 70s Britain. There was simply a face-off between neoliberals and center-left where a huge amount of right-wing propaganda was and still is, used for the neoliberal cause. One believed in the power of the free market and the other believed both monetary and fiscal intervention should be used to tame the business cycle. Both Keynes and Friedman’s apposing proposals would of tamed inflation and both would have suffered an initial period of recession. Had the Tories been in power at that time, then they would of suffered the same recession because of the OPEC oil shocks and the fall of Bretton Woods. Labour took the bullet…no surprise there… and Keynesian theory became the Achilles’ heel of fiscal economics. To this day Thatcher is still hailed as the PM who delivered us from another ‘great depression’. That is simply not true! We have to remember that neoliberal concepts were discredited for many years. It has a mass fatal flaws as it approaches ‘end game’ which is where we are heading now. Neoliberalism can only reign victorious whilst it still works for the majority but because its an insidious form of Big-Tent government manipulation, its fake values will start to diminish and we, the people of Britain and the U.S will grow in widespread public dissatisfaction.

vincentML -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 12:11:59 PM)
quote: We have to remember that neoliberal concepts were discredited for many years. It has a mass fatal flaws as it approaches ‘end game’ which is where we are heading now. Neoliberalism can only reign victorious whilst it still works for the majority but because its an insidious form of Big-Tent government manipulation, its fake values will start to diminish and we, the people of Britain and the U.S will grow in widespread public dissatisfaction. imo, neoliberalism was never meant to work for the majority. That has always been the sugar in the toxic porridge, the big trickle down lie at its core, don't you think? I recall that Reagan fired his treasury secretary (?) who had the gall to point out that the emperor had no clothes in '83.

MariaB -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 1:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: We have to remember that neoliberal concepts were discredited for many years. It has a mass fatal flaws as it approaches ‘end game’ which is where we are heading now. Neoliberalism can only reign victorious whilst it still works for the majority but because its an insidious form of Big-Tent government manipulation, its fake values will start to diminish and we, the people of Britain and the U.S will grow in widespread public dissatisfaction. imo, neoliberalism was never meant to work for the majority. That has always been the sugar in the toxic porridge, the big trickle down lie at its core, don't you think? I recall that Reagan fired his treasury secretary (?) who had the gall to point out that the emperor had no clothes in '83. I agree but these bastards have managed to carry that poisoned chalice a long time. Its only recently the sleep walkers have started waking up to the real goings on behind the cloaked doors of our establishment.

Awareness -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/13/2016 5:09:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Its not just doom and gloom from center left, (Far left voted out btw) Cameron campaigned to remain in and so did many of his Conservative followers, so why people keep refering to just the Left remain voters is a bit of an odd one. Because the right are busy taking profits in the stock market. It's only the left who are having an ineffectual little tantrum because they were outvoted. I also have to clarify that we're not talking about the working class classic socialist left - we're talking about the effete pseudo-intellectuals drinking poor-quality Chardonnay while complaining bitterly that Britain retaining control of its own borders is racist. Basically the fucking useless arm of the left that doesn't actually do anything besides engage in Twitter advocacy and mutual masturbation.

MrRodgers -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/14/2016 4:49:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Its not just doom and gloom from center left, (Far left voted out btw) Cameron campaigned to remain in and so did many of his Conservative followers, so why people keep refering to just the Left remain voters is a bit of an odd one. Because the right are busy taking profits in the stock market. It's only the left who are having an ineffectual little tantrum because they were outvoted. I also have to clarify that we're not talking about the working class classic socialist left - we're talking about the effete pseudo-intellectuals drinking poor-quality Chardonnay while complaining bitterly that Britain retaining control of its own borders is racist. Basically the fucking useless arm of the left that doesn't actually do anything besides engage in Twitter advocacy and mutual masturbation. Yes.....as much about politics and trying to prevent the further coronation if the (real) right and its profitable (immigrant labor) racism, xenophobia and destruction of who they see as Eurotrash. (the poor and downtrodden, necessarily kept...poor and trodden on) Yes.....taking profits because that's what there is to life where country and its alliances only matter in how much money they make and how little its taxed. It's all the equally or more effete, non-intellectual, Donny P crowd, blissfully sipping on their entitlements, that watch all of this on BBC while laughing at the screen. Yes.....basically the completely and utterly useless arm of the upper classes and banking/corporate elite, snobbishly sneering at the middle and lower classes and their irrelevant concerns, who didn't vote and because...they simply don't care.

NorthernGent1 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 11:53:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Its not just doom and gloom from center left, (Far left voted out btw) Cameron campaigned to remain in and so did many of his Conservative followers, so why people keep refering to just the Left remain voters is a bit of an odd one. Because the right are busy taking profits in the stock market. It's only the left who are having an ineffectual little tantrum because they were outvoted. I also have to clarify that we're not talking about the working class classic socialist left - we're talking about the effete pseudo-intellectuals drinking poor-quality Chardonnay while complaining bitterly that Britain retaining control of its own borders is racist. Basically the fucking useless arm of the left that doesn't actually do anything besides engage in Twitter advocacy and mutual masturbation. I don't think you're English, but let me tell you that while you think you've hit the nail on the head you have absolutely no idea how spot on you are in relation to this country. We have boat loads of pseudo-liberals who really think they're with 'the poor' because they've been to Africa or somewhere, and then retire to middle-class suburbia surrounded by white faces and people just like them, drinking shite wine and talking utter shite. We have loads of the fuckers to the point of it being improbable. It's just some freak of nature. We have a few on this board. 'Think they're liberals yet hold nothing but contempt for the working classes. These people think the working classes are stupid and being led 'round the block by Farage. The irony being that while we're not fans of Farage, who will never be one of us, we despise these middle-class liberals who believe they're championing our cause. They're monumental fuckin' idiots. And, if a big truck ran them all over, we'd turn the truck 'round for another go at them to make sure the job was done. And, you're right. They're useless. All piss and wind.

NorthernGent1 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 11:55:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: We have to remember that neoliberal concepts were discredited for many years. It has a mass fatal flaws as it approaches ‘end game’ which is where we are heading now. Neoliberalism can only reign victorious whilst it still works for the majority but because its an insidious form of Big-Tent government manipulation, its fake values will start to diminish and we, the people of Britain and the U.S will grow in widespread public dissatisfaction. imo, neoliberalism was never meant to work for the majority. That has always been the sugar in the toxic porridge, the big trickle down lie at its core, don't you think? I recall that Reagan fired his treasury secretary (?) who had the gall to point out that the emperor had no clothes in '83. There is nothing new about the so-called 'Neo-Liberalism'.

WhoreMods -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 12:40:46 PM)
Nothing liberal about it either, but you're not complaining about the second half of the term.

NorthernGent1 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 12:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Nothing liberal about it either, but you're not complaining about the second half of the term. You'd have to explain because as per usual you're making no sense.

WhoreMods -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 1:01:58 PM)
You complained that there's nothing new about "neo" liberalism, but failed to take issue with a borderline libertarian form of free market monetarism being described as "liberalism".

NorthernGent1 -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 1:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You complained that there's nothing new about "neo" liberalism, but failed to take issue with a borderline libertarian form of free market monetarism being described as "liberalism". You're a fuckin' idiot. I can't even begin to fathom what you have just posted. Allow me to explain: Firstly: I didn't 'complain' about anything. I made a statement. Secondly: the 'borderline libertarian form of....' what on earth are you talking about?

PeonForHer -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 2:09:30 PM)
quote: We have loads of the fuckers to the point of it being improbable. It's just some freak of nature. We have a few on this board. 'Think they're liberals yet hold nothing but contempt for the working classes. Yep, that might well be true. But, to be fair, we do have a fair few pseudo-working-class turds on this board who really have swallowed a load of horseshit propaganda about what will make their lives better - and by crackey do they feel that what is good for them must be good for all of us, as well.

Awareness -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 4:57:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1 quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You complained that there's nothing new about "neo" liberalism, but failed to take issue with a borderline libertarian form of free market monetarism being described as "liberalism". You're a fuckin' idiot. I can't even begin to fathom what you have just posted. Allow me to explain: Firstly: I didn't 'complain' about anything. I made a statement. Secondly: the 'borderline libertarian form of....' what on earth are you talking about? He's talking tribes again. It's a depressing symptom of someone who can't think for themselves. There's this little construct which lesser thinkers try and stuff everyone into. It's called the political axis and it's basically the left and the right. The left is where you find your socialists, your communists, your Utopian dreamers who think everyone should just love one another. They're also referred to as "liberals". The right is where you find your hard-line capitalists, your free-market evangelists who babble on about laissez faire capitalism and your Republicans who believe anyone who is poor is just not working hard enough. (Oh, and that poor people, single mothers, teachers and Mexicans are ruining the economy.) The political axis theorists refer to these as "Conservatives". Now, Neo-Liberalism - or at least Neo-Liberalism as it's been defined in the last few decades - is actually about advocacy for the very laissez faire capitalism which the corporatists and capitalist on the right adore. Consequently, whinyboy is referring to is the fact that while Neo-Liberalism might not be new (thus the Neo is inappropriate), neither is it "Liberal" in the classic sense, since it's actually a right-wing philosophy about letting corporations do whatever the fuck they want without consequence. He's upset you didn't also point out that Neo-Liberalism isn't actually "Liberal". I guess that matters to him. It seems kind of a stupid thing to get all toxic about, but a lot of people in here are bug-fuck crazy. Of course, the left/right political axis is a primitive one-dimensional way to think about political allegiances and so it's a model that's only actually believed by the intellectually stunted.

MrRodgers -> RE: 2nd Female PM for UK! (7/15/2016 7:59:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1 quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You complained that there's nothing new about "neo" liberalism, but failed to take issue with a borderline libertarian form of free market monetarism being described as "liberalism". You're a fuckin' idiot. I can't even begin to fathom what you have just posted. Allow me to explain: Firstly: I didn't 'complain' about anything. I made a statement. Secondly: the 'borderline libertarian form of....' what on earth are you talking about? He's talking tribes again. It's a depressing symptom of someone who can't think for themselves. There's this little construct which lesser thinkers try and stuff everyone into. It's called the political axis and it's basically the left and the right. The left is where you find your socialists, your communists, your Utopian dreamers who think everyone should just love one another. They're also referred to as "liberals". The right is where you find your hard-line capitalists, your free-market evangelists who babble on about laissez faire capitalism and your Republicans who believe anyone who is poor is just not working hard enough. (Oh, and that poor people, single mothers, teachers and Mexicans are ruining the economy.) The political axis theorists refer to these as "Conservatives". Now, Neo-Liberalism - or at least Neo-Liberalism as it's been defined in the last few decades - is actually about advocacy for the very laissez faire capitalism which the corporatists and capitalist on the right adore. Consequently, whinyboy is referring to is the fact that while Neo-Liberalism might not be new (thus the Neo is inappropriate), neither is it "Liberal" in the classic sense, since it's actually a right-wing philosophy about letting corporations do whatever the fuck they want without consequence. He's upset you didn't also point out that Neo-Liberalism isn't actually "Liberal". I guess that matters to him. It seems kind of a stupid thing to get all toxic about, but a lot of people in here are bug-fuck crazy. Of course, the left/right political axis is a primitive one-dimensional way to think about political allegiances and so it's a model that's only actually believed by the intellectually stunted. Actually the left/right political/economy debate creates a very useful partisanship serving the function of distracting the masses away from the real successes of the turn-of-the-century (19th) neo-liberalism now in rebound playing the long game while in fact conducted behind closed door, that created the consumption based and eventual paper vis-a-vis paper debt-driven economy. (paper currency is merely another form of financial derivative) This serves to postpone two important fallacies. One, that the dollar remains stubbornly strong, as enforced in trade and a well-respected labor force (for its enhanced value the cost of which must remain almost 0) and 2nd that the world will lend back trillion$ of those same dollars to continue the consumption and maintain the world's current financial and military super power. (the only thing preventing a new world order...is a strong America. Henry Kissinger) The long game is exemplified by both the dollar's economic mid-term (40 year old) strength and the almost 0 cost on borrowing that which is predicted to crash everyday, while most astute observers understand, will last another 40-50 years or until some financial false flag op will force the a new world currency and chaos in the streets of the west. This will serve the purpose of inspiring the partisans to blame and attack each other. What's remains will be cleaned up and out of new world disorder comes order, restored in the 'new' neo-fascist world. Some will not inaccurately call it the 4TH Reich...in America.

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