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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/12/2016 7:39:07 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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The study is inherently flawed because of the data sources they used.
From the actual study (page 9 of the pdf):
quote:

We use four sources of data – none ideal – which together paint an empirical portrait of racial
differences in police use of force. The first two data sources – NYC’s Stop and Frisk program and
the Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS) – provide information on non-lethal force from both the
police and civilian perspectives, respectively. The other two datasets – event summaries of officerinvolved
shootings in ten locations across the US, and data on interactions between civilians and
police in Houston, Texas, in which the use of lethal of force may have been justified by law

And from page 11:
quote:

There are no systematic datasets which include officer-involved shootings (OIS) along with demographics,
encounter characteristics, and suspect and police behavior.

And from page 14
quote:

we contacted HPD to help construct a set of police-civilian interactions in which lethal
force may have been justified

So the most comprehensive dataset did not include cases where the shooting was not justified.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf



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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 1:35:16 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
This stats is showing that white police handle black people more roughly. Which shows the white police handles black people more unfairly.
All the more to use black cops for black people that I advocate!

There are about 39 million black people in America.
There are about 50,000 black police officers spread out in 12,000 police departments.
Maybe you can explain how that would work?
Jeez, Greta, get real.
SOURCE


Can you even imagine?

911 Operator: "9-1-1. What's your emergency?"
Caller: "I need the police! I think someone is breaking into my house!"
911 Operator: "Okay, sir. Please stay calm. We'll get you help as soon as possible. Btw, what is your skin color?"
Caller: "What? I'm black, why?"

Option 1
911 Operator: "Oooooh, sorry. I'm not black, so I'm going to have to put you on hold until our black operator is available. Unfortunately, she's on vacation right now, but she'll be back next week. If you'd rather not hold, I can take your phone number and have her call you when she gets back."

Option 2
911 Operator: Ooooh, sorry. Officers Dave and Mike are our only black officers, and they only work day shift. I have your address and phone number. I'll make sure they put you first on their list when they get in in 4 hours. Is there anything else I can help you with tonight?"



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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 3:54:36 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
haven't read the study, and the nytimes is not going to report the methodology or all of the literature review and discussion, but that notion that "white cops treat black people more roughly" might be answered by the fact that blacks are more disproportionately criminals compared to whites.
also, given the race relations these days, they very well might be reacting to white policemen in ways that invoke that roughness.


The NYT article goes into some detail regarding the methodology, and the study's origins. It's an interesting read.

One conspicuously absent statistic, and there's reason to believe that the data is available to them, is the classing of interactions in cases where arrests actually occurred.


does the ny times piece give the title of the article and the journal its in?



yes it does
Do you have an allergy that stops you reading it for yourself, or are you waiting for townhall/fox/ breitbart,/ newsmax? to give you your talking points
but just so you dont have to tax your poor old brain.
An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force
Roland G. Fryer, Jr
National Bureau of Economic Research,

which states
This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399 you can actually download it.
But you would have known that if you had actually read the link given.
BTW before you get too disheartened, the link AND the paper make clear that more study is needed and that its not fully accurate. Maybe we should let the CDC do their thing and have accurate studies done as it IS a public health issue.
Or people like you can follow the words of tthe rudyG and keep denying the facts.
edited to fix format...I hope


did you ever think oh enlightened one, which is the kindest thing I can think to say at the moment, that I might have been asking for purposes other than I was waiting for the breitbart version??

that it was possible I read the link and still am justified in asking the question?

or that perhaps, for some reason, I was not able to read the link?

while im here, please stop acting like you know me, or that by virtue of your leftist ideologies you are either morally or intellectually superior. neither is the case.







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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 3:59:32 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Greta75
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Actually it has yet to be tried.

When black people are getting more outrage in less worst situations, like black dude dying of heart attack for being manhandled.

This white kid was shot 7 times brutally, only 17 yr old, for just high beaming the police. That's all he did. You are telling me, black people won't go ballistic if this kid was black?

Lil girl why don't you go find a grown up to read what I said and explain it to you.



Why fucking bother ?

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 4:12:38 AM   
Termyn8or


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"On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police."

Yeah, that is because they fuck with the cops more. More likely to fight back, try to run, whatever. Maybe it is profiling and prejudicial, but prejudice is learned.

Your Parents teaching you a different race is inferior is bigotry, but prejudice is learned. What little bit of prejudice I still have is not going away easily, AND it is not all racial. Like White crack addicts, you are not coming in my Man cave. I let a crack addict drive my car once and I almost decided to kill him, up to the beer store nine streets away he took three hours. I know what he was doing, making deals. I wrote him off, should've broke his leg. Get MY vehicle involved with those people ? A possible target for all I know ? He was authorized to go to the local beer store with MY MONEY and pick up US some beer. What would you do ?

Black doesn't mean shit. Whites just haven't been caught yet. However alot of cops are bigoted. I knew a few. They need to stop this. They are putting good cops in jeopardy, and it might get to the point where they have to pay them so much there will not be enough of them. It is already to the point where taking a stolen car or burglary report might be the next day in some areas. They need to weed out the bad apples and soon, and not let them get a job in another city just like that.

T^T

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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 4:15:01 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Can you even imagine?

911 Operator: "9-1-1. What's your emergency?"
Caller: "I need the police! I think someone is breaking into my house!"
911 Operator: "Okay, sir. Please stay calm. We'll get you help as soon as possible. Btw, what is your skin color?"
Caller: "What? I'm black, why?"

Option 1
911 Operator: "Oooooh, sorry. I'm not black, so I'm going to have to put you on hold until our black operator is available. Unfortunately, she's on vacation right now, but she'll be back next week. If you'd rather not hold, I can take your phone number and have her call you when she gets back."

Option 2
911 Operator: Ooooh, sorry. Officers Dave and Mike are our only black officers, and they only work day shift. I have your address and phone number. I'll make sure they put you first on their list when they get in in 4 hours. Is there anything else I can help you with tonight?"

It won't happen this way. First of all, operators won't physically interact with the black people, only verbal, so it's okay. There is no way this operator is gonna kill a black person through a phone conversation, unless she managed to say something so spectacular to give him a heart attack!! Ha!

Secondly, when something like this is implementing, it's probably important to increase the number of black policemen. Get some of those 75% unemployed black youth off the streets and a paying job and also maybe they can feel good protecting their own people.

If managed and rostered properly, to have good ratios of black and white police available in every shift. I think it's mostly managable. After all, it doesn't have to be such a hard and fast rule. But as much as possible, use black cops in black crime situations. Just by making an effort, will naturally reduce the incidences of white cop killing black people. I am 101% convinced black live matters will not exist, even AFTER statistics show that pure black cops patrolling black has the same amount of kill rate, as when white cops were patrolling black.

I mean, fortunately for you guys, black and white people are Christians so they got the same holidays.

Imagine in my country, like during hari raya, all muslims do not work, you can't even get muslims to police or do anything.

It's probably more hassle and complicated to roster according to race. But not impossible to work. If only people can over the perceived "racism" part of it.


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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 4:17:34 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

There are about 39 million black people in America.
There are about 50,000 black police officers spread out in 12,000 police departments.
Maybe you can explain how that would work?
Jeez, Greta, get real.

SOURCE



Mr Bernie Sanders keeps talking about this 75% unemployed black youths! I'd say give them a job! They can do these policing business. Infact I would do an recruitment ad to these youth, "If you think black lives matter! Join the force and help protect black lives!"

Corny but I'd market it as a noble job where these black youths gets to play a part in protecting black lives.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/13/2016 4:19:02 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 4:20:29 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
haven't read the study, and the nytimes is not going to report the methodology or all of the literature review and discussion, but that notion that "white cops treat black people more roughly" might be answered by the fact that blacks are more disproportionately criminals compared to whites.
also, given the race relations these days, they very well might be reacting to white policemen in ways that invoke that roughness.


The NYT article goes into some detail regarding the methodology, and the study's origins. It's an interesting read.

One conspicuously absent statistic, and there's reason to believe that the data is available to them, is the classing of interactions in cases where arrests actually occurred.


does the ny times piece give the title of the article and the journal its in?



yes it does
Do you have an allergy that stops you reading it for yourself, or are you waiting for townhall/fox/ breitbart,/ newsmax? to give you your talking points
but just so you dont have to tax your poor old brain.
An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force
Roland G. Fryer, Jr
National Bureau of Economic Research,

which states
This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399 you can actually download it.
But you would have known that if you had actually read the link given.
BTW before you get too disheartened, the link AND the paper make clear that more study is needed and that its not fully accurate. Maybe we should let the CDC do their thing and have accurate studies done as it IS a public health issue.
Or people like you can follow the words of tthe rudyG and keep denying the facts.
edited to fix format...I hope


did you ever think oh enlightened one, which is the kindest thing I can think to say at the moment, that I might have been asking for purposes other than I was waiting for the breitbart version??

that it was possible I read the link and still am justified in asking the question?

or that perhaps, for some reason, I was not able to read the link?

while im here, please stop acting like you know me, or that by virtue of your leftist ideologies you are either morally or intellectually superior. neither is the case.


Im sorry you are to lazy to read the link.But I have given you the link to the site mentioned in the NY times link and the download for the actual paper. Now if you cant read either, you should have asked rather than show the depth of your ignorance.


On the link to the artcle your questions would have been answered. Both the methodology the paper, a link to download the paper and a link to more information on the writer who explained some of the methodology and explained why it is flawed. Is all there on the link given in the OP

Your ONLY responses were
quote:

haven't read the study, and the nytimes is not going to report the methodology or all of the literature review and discussion, but that notion that "white cops treat black people more roughly" might be answered by the fact that blacks are more disproportionately criminals compared to whites.

also, given the race relations these days, they very well might be reacting to white policemen in ways that invoke that roughness.
And this
quote:

does the ny times piece give the title of the article and the journal its in?

SO no
I do not believe you are anything but lazy.

I can only go on your posts Bounty, and so far your posts are telling me everything I need to know, and thats not me acting, this is me finding you intellectually dishonest, and morally and mentally repulsive.
Dont make me laugh






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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 2:16:22 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

There are about 39 million black people in America.
There are about 50,000 black police officers spread out in 12,000 police departments.
Maybe you can explain how that would work?
Jeez, Greta, get real.

SOURCE



Mr Bernie Sanders keeps talking about this 75% unemployed black youths! I'd say give them a job! They can do these policing business. Infact I would do an recruitment ad to these youth, "If you think black lives matter! Join the force and help protect black lives!"

Corny but I'd market it as a noble job where these black youths gets to play a part in protecting black lives.


Yeah, right. . .... . .

All departments establish and maintain their own police academy requirements and qualifications; so interested candidates are advised to consult department-specific resources for qualification standards and disqualifying factors. This list represents the general requirements and disqualifiers for police academy eligibility, although it is not an exhaustive list and is not representative of qualifications maintained by all police departments:
•At least 21 years at the time of police academy graduation
•No misdemeanor convictions within the three years prior to applying
•Valid driver’s license
•United States citizenship
•No felony convictions
•No DWI convictions in the five years prior to applying
•No domestic violence convictions
Sixty credit hours from an accredited college or university (College credit requirements may be waived for those with at least three years of military service and an honorable discharge)


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/13/2016 3:31:57 PM   
DominantWrestler


Posts: 338
Joined: 7/4/2010
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On page 3 of the research paper, the author mentions that 44% of those shot by police are white according to FBI data spanning over 30 years

According to the 2010 US census data, 74.8% of those described themselves as white only

That means whites are more than 40% less likely to be shot than the general population

The research calculated the likelihood of getting shot based on stops, not population. Basically, blacks are less likely to be shot per stop, but are more likely to be stopped and are more likely to be shot by police at some point during their lives. Basically, racism as usual. Racist cops, much like crooked or malicious cops, give good cops a bad name. Making authority figures subject to law has been in English Common Law since the Magna Carta. The US Constitution is based on the same concept. Link to national census data below

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf

< Message edited by DominantWrestler -- 7/13/2016 3:34:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 6:04:57 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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FR

While I am sure some cops are racist, we have no way to know if hate causes this slew in figures, or fear. When a cop radios in your license plate he gets quite a bit of Information. Before they digitized police radio here I used to listen on a scanner. I herd more than once "Black male, known to fight with police". Or "Black male convictions for assault and battery and rape and a few other things". I don't know about you but if I heard these things my holster would be open.

They know your record and let's face it, more Black people have a record than White people. If the guy has three breaking and entering convictions, his car is getting searched. If he has been busted dealing drugs, his car is getting searched. And he knows it and if he has any stolen stuff of drugs in the car he knows he is going down unless he can somehow get away.

That website didn't mention any category higher than 20 % discrepancy. Given the prison population demographics I am surprised it is not alot higher. When there is like an 80 % discrepancy then something is very wrong. Like an election where someone just barely wins, vote fraud may be responsible, but when a candidate or issue wins by like 80 % the fraud didn't do it.

And BTW, they don't even have to radio in your plate number anymore. There are cameras on front of the cop cars now that read the plate of the car ahead and the data show up automatically on their screen. If have had six DUIs and it is 11:00 PM on a Saturday night, you are getting stopped. All they have to say is they saw a taillight flicker, or if you swerved just a bit that you were "weaving".

Bottom line, anyone with a record is automatically profiled, and now actually by the system. And since many more Black have a criminal record than Whites, I guess racism is built into the system. What do you want them to do ? Stop using those cameras and stop getting information on possibly dangerous people they are about to meet ?

But there are still racists on the force and they endanger the good ones.

Maybe it's just a White thing, but I was taught that when someone has a gun, do not fuck with them.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 7/14/2016 6:08:14 PM >

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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 6:50:17 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
It's probably more hassle and complicated to roster according to race. But not impossible to work. If only people can over the perceived "racism" part of it.

Greta, the 'perceived' racism in this proposal is probably the least ridiculous thing about it.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 7:59:00 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: KenDckey



Attitude plays a great part of any confrontation.


That is the whole point now isn't it?
If an ordinary citizen that you do not know were to aproach you in an antagonistic manner and you had a gun in your hand would you be just as antagonistic towards your attacker?
What gives a policeman the right to approach you in an antagonistic manner?
In texas it is legal to resist unlwaful arrest with deadly force.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 8:57:39 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

While I am sure some cops are racist, we have no way to know if hate causes this slew in figures, or fear.

Do you get up stupid or do you take stupid pills?
Racism is unreasoned. Hatred on the other hand is reasoned to the max.



When a cop radios in your license plate he gets quite a bit of Information. Before they digitized police radio here I used to listen on a scanner. I herd more than once "Black male, known to fight with police". Or "Black male convictions for assault and battery and rape and a few other things". I don't know about you but if I heard these things my holster would be open.

That would make murdering this individual much easier wouldn't it?

They know your record and let's face it, more Black people have a record than White people.


Do you feel that black people are inherantly criminal or is it because the cops are racists?

If the guy has three breaking and entering convictions, his car is getting searched.

What would be your probable cause?


If he has been busted dealing drugs, his car is getting searched.


What would be your probable cause?

And he knows it and if he has any stolen stuff of drugs in the car he knows he is going down unless he can somehow get away.


So without searching his car you know he has contraband?

That website didn't mention any category higher than 20 % discrepancy. Given the prison population demographics I am surprised it is not alot higher. When there is like an 80 % discrepancy then something is very wrong. Like an election where someone just barely wins, vote fraud may be responsible, but when a candidate or issue wins by like 80 % the fraud didn't do it.


So all those elections that stalin won by 95% were legit?

And BTW, they don't even have to radio in your plate number anymore. There are cameras on front of the cop cars now that read the plate of the car ahead and the data show up automatically on their screen. If have had six DUIs and it is 11:00 PM on a Saturday night, you are getting stopped. All they have to say is they saw a taillight flicker, or if you swerved just a bit that you were "weaving".


It appears that integrity is not for the cops?

Bottom line, anyone with a record is automatically profiled, and now actually by the system. And since many more Black have a criminal record than Whites, I guess racism is built into the system.


It would seem that way

What do you want them to do ? Stop using those cameras and stop getting information on possibly dangerous people they are about to meet ?

I would expect them to act like profesionals not racist punks.

But there are still racists on the force and they endanger the good ones.

If the good ones protect the bad ones how does one tell the difference?

Maybe it's just a White thing, but I was taught that when someone has a gun, do not fuck with them.

Funny I was taught to shoot back...
Peace through superior firepower.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 9:27:38 PM   
Termyn8or


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Taught to shoot back ? Doesn't sound to smart in most circumstances.

Lessee here, if you do not want to end your life either be on the street or driving someone else's car and shoot fast enough so that they can never radio in your name. I they know who you are they will NEVER stop looking for you.

Chris Dorner was one of them, but apparently had some sort of integrity, and look what happened to him. Good cops would have a hard fucking time outing the bad cops. got any bright ideas ?

And this is not a new thing. The movie The Thin Blue Line was probably pretty accurate, look at what really happened in that era. I whole new commission or some shit was set up right around then to investigate crooked cops. That is back in the 1970s. government overall has become much more corrupt since then, why not the cops ?

The time for shooting back will come, but not today. You need alot of popular support for that and you have to wait until the government screws enough people over, and they get hungry and determined not to put up with it anymore. The sheeple are too timid for that right now, but when they lose all their stuff and get hungry, that will change. And it is coming, the trend is obvious, the middle class has shrunk to a minority. The government is getting ready to tell you how to wipe your ass, while selling all your personal inforetion from the NSA just like Microshaft from Windows 10.

How much more are people willing to take ?

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/14/2016 10:40:48 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Sixty credit hours from an accredited college or university (College credit requirements may be waived for those with at least three years of military service and an honorable discharge)
[/color]

That needs to change. In my country. To be a police. You don't need an education.
I mean, why does a police man need to be academically inclined? He just need to have a good heart. And he will be trained to deal with people or dangerous situations.

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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/15/2016 4:54:16 AM   
DominantWrestler


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Police need to be educated to know the law and know the rights of people. They also need to be smart enough to make on the fly decisions.

One of the biggest sources of racism is the conviction rates, especially with drug crimes. Black people that are caught with drugs are much more likely to be convicted than white people caught with drugs. This partially has to do with income and resorting to public defenders who will strike a deal instead of fight a case (too many cases on their plate, not enough time), partially through direct racism. Because drug related prisoners make up more than half of prisoners, this disparity in conviction rates means that a black person is more likely to be known by police as a criminal when pulled over even if they are no more likely to be a criminal than a white person. This sort of racism, after the community and police condoned lynchings before and during the first half of the 20th century, has not left the African American community with the greatest perception of law enforcement or the judicial system in general.

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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/15/2016 5:32:47 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler
Police need to be educated to know the law and know the rights of people. They also need to be smart enough to make on the fly decisions.

Academic smartness means shit. You need a street smart cop. You don't learn that in school.


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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/15/2016 5:39:13 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75


Academic smartness means shit.


In your case having rich parents helps make up for your lack of academic ability.


You need a street smart cop. You don't learn that in school.

You obviously never learned anything in school.




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RE: Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of... - 7/15/2016 11:21:41 AM   
vincentML


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< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/15/2016 11:33:59 AM >


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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 40
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