RE: Putin is awesome!

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MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/9/2016 5:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers To you both, 150 tons of gold at $1000 an ounce which is reasonable considering that much gold supply on the market, would be $4.8 billion. ($1,300/oz. as we type) Still not near enough to swing anybody away from the dollar./Euro dominance. Plus as I wrote, the ME oil countries were not going to go along, so it dies maybe a quick death. Yes, the gold standard is a great theoretical study but would be impractical in any $multi-trillion economy. This is also shown by a fairly rampant inflation over the centuries of the Ottoman empire and later in Europe. Let's say the ME no longer accepted dollars for oil. America would have two choices-invade, destroy and take over or pay for that oil from its own gold reserves. This of course means gold accumulates not diminishes in size. As the gold grows and circulates in the ME it creates an economic boom. The ensuing deflation in the American dollar would then encourage the ME to buy cheap goods from them. Gold would therefore be pulled back and forth across continents. Personally I believe it’s a constricted and primitive monetary arrangement. People don’t want to be carrying pouches of gold around with them and with the sort of technology we have today, its wide open to corruption. If they wanted to produce free banking based on gold reserves (a more tangible fiat system) then surely that would still deem the dollar worthless, at least within the middle east.

MrRodgers -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/9/2016 7:12:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers To you both, 150 tons of gold at $1000 an ounce which is reasonable considering that much gold supply on the market, would be $4.8 billion. ($1,300/oz. as we type) Still not near enough to swing anybody away from the dollar./Euro dominance. Plus as I wrote, the ME oil countries were not going to go along, so it dies maybe a quick death. Yes, the gold standard is a great theoretical study but would be impractical in any $multi-trillion economy. This is also shown by a fairly rampant inflation over the centuries of the Ottoman empire and later in Europe. Let's say the ME no longer accepted dollars for oil. America would have two choices-invade, destroy and take over or pay for that oil from its own gold reserves. This of course means gold accumulates not diminishes in size. As the gold grows and circulates in the ME it creates an economic boom. The ensuing deflation in the American dollar would then encourage the ME to buy cheap goods from them. Gold would therefore be pulled back and forth across continents. Personally I believe it’s a constricted and primitive monetary arrangement. People don’t want to be carrying pouches of gold around with them and with the sort of technology we have today, its wide open to corruption. If they wanted to produce free banking based on gold reserves (a more tangible fiat system) then surely that would still deem the dollar worthless, at least within the middle east. Let's say the whole world no longer accepts the dollar and it turns to shit. A just as likely hypothetical. Sorry but the ME as much as told the G20...no go on the dinar. So your hypothetical is simply not plausible. Plus, there goes Billion$ in revenue to the ME oil suppliers and where and how do they get the dollars they need to pay their debts ? Every oil supplier would be shooting themselves in the foot

Termyn8or -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/9/2016 7:58:57 PM)
They never got the chance to say go go on the dinar. T^T

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 12:07:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or They never got the chance to say go go on the dinar. T^T And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD. Like you say, they never got the chance because the West invaded under a false pretext and further armed al-Qaida. Together we broke Libya and turned it back into a war mongering dust basin. The gold was stolen and now ISIS plan on launching a new Islamic money system across the ME called the gold dinar. We know the system they want to use and it is antiquated and hugely problematic but its likely not the same sort of system Gadhafi was planning.

MrRodgers -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 1:28:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or They never got the chance to say go go on the dinar. T^T As of the great meltdown and TARP, the oil for oz. of gold by 2010 fell back to less than 15 bbls.per. It is about the same or less now because they have both come down. Given that was just a price comparison it was still sufficient enough to quash any talk of actually using gold coin to buy oil. It was and has been, is now and will always be...how many $$$$$ is it...for a bbl of oil ? 2010 was 1 year approx. before Qaddafi was killed. HERE

MrRodgers -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 1:39:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or They never got the chance to say go go on the dinar. T^T And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD. Like you say, they never got the chance because the West invaded under a false pretext and further armed al-Qaida. Together we broke Libya and turned it back into a war mongering dust basin. The gold was stolen and now ISIS plan on launching a new Islamic money system across the ME called the gold dinar. We know the system they want to use and it is antiquated and hugely problematic but its likely not the same sort of system Gadhafi was planning. Again see 2010, 1 year before the troubles in Libya. In addition, in no practical terms would one be able to describe any difference between ISIS and Libya ? The dinar was going to be worth X and what was an oz(s). or more per coin maybe...would get X bbls. of oil. Neither ISIS or Libya (Quadaffi) or the western govts. would be able to arbitrarily declare a value...only the speculators do that. In fact once again as with any 'currency' gold coin or dollar, it will always be described in terms of it's actual exchange value for any commodity. All any real substantial difference in its intrinsic value would do, is cause speculators to melt it down for the metal.

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 6:57:59 AM)
I'm not sure where you are trying to take this Mr Rodgers. Have I missed something because I'm finding your post difficult to grasp. What do you mean when you say, "“in no practical terms would one be able to describe any difference between ISIS and Libya ?

WhoreMods -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 7:27:10 AM)
Maybe he's thinking of the fact that Libya has a history of funding the middle east's fundamentalist terrorist organisations since the '60s, and that only stopped when one bunch of these fuckwits decided that they fancied taking over the country, rather than just getting a handout now and then if they promised to cause trouble for Israel? (More likely he wasn't, but that's all that springs to mind, really.)

MrRodgers -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 7:28:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB I'm not sure where you are trying to take this Mr Rodgers. Have I missed something because I'm finding your post difficult to grasp. What do you mean when you say, "“in no practical terms would one be able to describe any difference between ISIS and Libya ? "And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD." Define system other then you pay gold dinar coins for oil. "The gold was stolen and now ISIS plan on launching a new Islamic money system across the ME called the gold dinar. We know the system they want to use and it is antiquated and hugely problematic but its likely not the same sort of system Gadhafi was planning." ISIS seeks a 'money system' called the gold dinar. How does that differ in anyway to...pay for things giving gold dinar in exchange for whatever goods and service sought and I guess here...it's oil etc. I fail to see any difference in their 'systems' and also what difference we could possibly see. AND...do we know what 'system ISIS was/is going to use ? So my statement was about there being no difference between their money 'systems' as in a practical sense...there is no difference and fail to see how there could be a difference.

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 8:05:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers "And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD." Define system other then you pay gold dinar coins for oil. Its complicated but here's an easy to read explanation. quote: ISIS seeks a 'money system' called the gold dinar. How does that differ in anyway to...pay for things giving gold dinar in exchange for whatever goods and service sought and I guess here...it's oil etc. I fail to see any difference in their 'systems' and also what difference we could possibly see. AND...do we know what 'system ISIS was/is going to use ? You need to refer to the link. quote: So my statement was about there being no difference between their money 'systems' as in a practical sense...there is no difference and fail to see how there could be a difference. Gold kept in a vault still allows for paper money production. The difference is, that note, or the coin is the equivalent of a gold bond. If the shit hits the fan its not worthless, unlike western fiat money. On the other hand you could just produce a load of heavy gold coins from your gold reserves.

mnottertail -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 11:41:33 AM)
but as pointed out, gold is not that plentiful. Libya can do it because they have a 42 billion dollar economy, our toiletpaper budget for the congress, what we spend on homeland security. nobody has 3.7 trillion in gold to back the US. No doubt the smaller countries would do well on a gold standard. But its so finite, you would have to add silver, palladium, platinum, and other precious things as base standard. More to go over war over.

mnottertail -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 11:49:13 AM)
But dont worry, we would have them skint in no time. Hey! can I borrow 25000 tons of your gold at say 10% interest? Whats the recourse I dont pay it back? I got the shit in hand, dawg, whatchew got? Oh, your dick in your hands. I use 4 helicopters and couple missles, surround the vault at Tripoli, I own the countries economy and am the countries government in about 15 minutes, no casualties.

MrRodgers -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 2:11:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers "And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD." Define system other then you pay gold dinar coins for oil. Its complicated but here's an easy to read explanation. quote: ISIS seeks a 'money system' called the gold dinar. How does that differ in anyway to...pay for things giving gold dinar in exchange for whatever goods and service sought and I guess here...it's oil etc. I fail to see any difference in their 'systems' and also what difference we could possibly see. AND...do we know what 'system ISIS was/is going to use ? You need to refer to the link. quote: So my statement was about there being no difference between their money 'systems' as in a practical sense...there is no difference and fail to see how there could be a difference. Gold kept in a vault still allows for paper money production. The difference is, that note, or the coin is the equivalent of a gold bond. If the shit hits the fan its not worthless, unlike western fiat money. On the other hand you could just produce a load of heavy gold coins from your gold reserves. Excellent read from 'philosophicaleconomics' and one every financial student should read even though there are a couple of fallacies present. AND yes, I read the whole fucking thing as well as other practical reasons why the worshiped gold-standard does nothing to prevent any of today's economic problems. But the so-called 'greenback' ended when Lincoln's OCC called in all of them and the country went back to a disastrous wild and essentially fraudulent 'free banking' system where millions of depositors were defrauded. And also that what ensued after the creation of the fed which is in fact 80% privately owned began to lend what was to become [its] currency called the fed reserve note (the fed does not issue 'greenbacks') to the treasury upon which it earns a legally limited 6% but only when reinvested in banking and also why the fed does in fact beyond it buying of federal debt...pay the treasury a portion of those profits. (Kennedy with ex ord. 11110, tried to 'kill' that fed power when he directed the treasury to remove the fed note from circulation replaced with the silver certificate, it worked and some say, was the last straw and got him killed) The question I have though is any practical difference between what Qaddafi was planning and what ISIS is trying to do and...I see none if only because who knows what Qaddafi plans were and what ISIS's plans are now except the assumption that coins with their value stamped on it, would then be exchanged as currency. I think both questions will remain unanswered for some time if ever answered.

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/10/2016 10:24:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers "And we don’t know what system Gadhafi was going to use with the GD." Define system other then you pay gold dinar coins for oil. Its complicated but here's an easy to read explanation. quote: ISIS seeks a 'money system' called the gold dinar. How does that differ in anyway to...pay for things giving gold dinar in exchange for whatever goods and service sought and I guess here...it's oil etc. I fail to see any difference in their 'systems' and also what difference we could possibly see. AND...do we know what 'system ISIS was/is going to use ? You need to refer to the link. quote: So my statement was about there being no difference between their money 'systems' as in a practical sense...there is no difference and fail to see how there could be a difference. Gold kept in a vault still allows for paper money production. The difference is, that note, or the coin is the equivalent of a gold bond. If the shit hits the fan its not worthless, unlike western fiat money. On the other hand you could just produce a load of heavy gold coins from your gold reserves. Excellent read from 'philosophicaleconomics' and one every financial student should read even though there are a couple of fallacies present. AND yes, I read the whole fucking thing as well as other practical reasons why the worshiped gold-standard does nothing to prevent any of today's economic problems. But the so-called 'greenback' ended when Lincoln's OCC called in all of them and the country went back to a disastrous wild and essentially fraudulent 'free banking' system where millions of depositors were defrauded. And also that what ensued after the creation of the fed which is in fact 80% privately owned began to lend what was to become [its] currency called the fed reserve note (the fed does not issue 'greenbacks') to the treasury upon which it earns a legally limited 6% but only when reinvested in banking and also why the fed does in fact beyond it buying of federal debt...pay the treasury a portion of those profits. (Kennedy with ex ord. 11110, tried to 'kill' that fed power when he directed the treasury to remove the fed note from circulation replaced with the silver certificate, it worked and some say, was the last straw and got him killed) The question I have though is any practical difference between what Qaddafi was planning and what ISIS is trying to do and...I see none if only because who knows what Qaddafi plans were and what ISIS's plans are now except the assumption that coins with their value stamped on it, would then be exchanged as currency. I think both questions will remain unanswered for some time if ever answered. I'm heading out early to because I have to get over to the other side of London this morning. Glad you enjoyed the read. I'll write back later when I have a little more time :)

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/11/2016 9:17:55 AM)
I haven’t read anything and believe me, I’ve searched, about any western worries regarding ISIS and their new gold dinar. Being the primitive orthodox bunch that they are its unlikely they intend this coinage to keep up with the modern age and just as their foolish ideologies about living life back in the middle ages, their newly invented money system just fits in with their own belief system. From what I have read, ISIS intend to make 5 or 6 coins, the highest being worth something like $600 but don’t quote me because although that’s close, its not an exact figure. There is no mention of a note or cheque or plastic; (There's no IOU) and so it sounds like this gold dinar can only used for bartering within the countries that use it. Therefore, Its more of a novelty than anything else. The West were certainly worried about Gadhafi’s plans, so I can only assume his gold was being mainly kept within the vaults of the bank and that the largest majority of coinage/notes were merely a substitute for holding physical gold (gold bonds).

MariaB -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/11/2016 9:18:59 AM)
double post [8\|]

mnottertail -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/11/2016 9:22:35 AM)
Well, its in keeping with there no interest ideology.

blacksword404 -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/11/2016 5:36:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire Communism and tyranny are more corrupt than capitalism-which is rank rotten on a good day. as tweakabelle subtlety pointed out. Only animals and those whose brains, if they ever had one in the first place, have departed their cranium to lala land would admire that in men/systems. Plenty of women love the bad boy with an edge. They love how he just takes what he wants and that he's not afraid to be violent with people. But they think it'll never be their turn. Until it is.

Termyn8or -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/12/2016 9:52:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail but as pointed out, gold is not that plentiful. Libya can do it because they have a 42 billion dollar economy, our toiletpaper budget for the congress, what we spend on homeland security. nobody has 3.7 trillion in gold to back the US. No doubt the smaller countries would do well on a gold standard. But its so finite, you would have to add silver, palladium, platinum, and other precious things as base standard. More to go over war over. What you do is have a BALANCE OF TRADE. You produce the same wealth as you consume. You sell it. Like equalibrium, you don't need to keep on getting new gold. And having a limited economy by those factors is what impels people to produce more. Not individuals so much as those who start businesses and operate them without moving them to China or some other low rent district. T^T

mnottertail -> RE: Putin is awesome! (8/13/2016 3:35:55 AM)
Thats why economic theory doesnt work. Where would we grow coffee? What can we trade coffee producing countries at the same rate per pound? Perhaps Ethiopia needs our machine parts for...............uh, something...there are klien linemans pliers you can buy for around $32 last you your whole life, why buy $1.99 chinese? Why do you think we are about the only ones left in the world that don't protect our economy, but give it away to the world? Try selling rice in Japan, or beef in Korea, or wood in Canada.

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