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Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 12:08:21 AM

Greta75

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It's so interesting how they believe in it. I think it's psychological.

My masseuse ALWAYS insist on cupping me in the past, after a full body massage, but for me, I always feel it's completely useless and leaves ugly marks for days. A good Chinese style full body massage is more than good enough for fast recovery. A good masseuse just by feel can feel precisely where all the aches and pain are, and then work to make it disappear base on Chinese science pressure points. Always works miracles for me.

There is no scientific evidence cupping works for anything at all.

I guess it's just suction of the skin, and the sensation of it is rather relaxing. I think it just relaxes.

But Chinese physician will claim it draws out toxin, pain, everything mythical.

And it's so funny the Russians are equating cupping to taking performance enhancement drugs now haha!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/10/2016 12:18:23 AM >

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 3:44:42 AM

PeonForHer

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A friend of mine on FB has been raging about this - from the 'anti' side. No evidence that it does any good, he says. A few people have said things along the lines of, 'Hey, so what if it's only placebo and superstition, we're talking the *Olympics*, here!'

In response, he posted this gruesome story of how cupping can go wrong:

[Warning, pictures aren't for the faint-hearted]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3655854/When-cupping-goes-wrong-Man-left-seven-horrific-holes-month-long-botched-therapy.html

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 12:28:10 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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And once again so called "traditional medicine" proves to be ineffectual.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 12:36:23 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

It's so interesting how they believe in it. I think it's psychological.

My masseuse ALWAYS insist on cupping me in the past, after a full body massage, but for me, I always feel it's completely useless and leaves ugly marks for days.

One might wonder at the i.q. of a person who engages in a behaviour that they feel is "completely useless".

A good Chinese style full body massage is more than good enough for fast recovery. A good masseuse just by feel can feel precisely where all the aches and pain are,

Really???is this your opinion or do you have some validation for this rather interesting" concept?

and then work to make it disappear base on Chinese science pressure points. Always works miracles for me.

There is no scientific evidence cupping works for anything at all.

Then why do you persist in paying to have it done?

I guess it's just suction of the skin, and the sensation of it is rather relaxing. I think it just relaxes.

But Chinese physician will claim it draws out toxin, pain, everything mythical.

Why do you believe that chinese physicins practice myth and not medicine?

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 12:37:50 PM

Lucylastic

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I like it in a kinky setting, and i read that bit about the guy with the nasty infection....was actually fascinated in it *its the lingering nurse in me*
Sounds like he was overdoingit and then it blistered, once you pop any blisters you are opening yourself up for all kinds of shit.
Ive heard of burns from the fire cups, but the magnetic ones are fun.
moderation....is sensible.
As to a medical benefit...meh. I havent tried it for that, and its hard to do your own back with the magnetic ones.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 12:42:29 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

And once again so called "traditional medicine" proves to be ineffectual.

I could understand it if it was a sort of placebo thing, or a little bit of superstition that aids the morale, somehow ... at the level of competition of the Olympics, things like that might actually make a difference. The belief alone that something is helping you actually does mean it helps you .... But when so much money's involved, or when it does damage, or people use it in place of something (like a medicine) that's proven to help, beyond just the placebo effect ... then things are getting into the nutty area.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 1:26:14 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
It's so interesting how they believe in it. I think it's psychological.

I don't think they actually believe in it rather than it seems to be ok and couldn't do any harm.
It's a fad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
My masseuse ALWAYS insist on cupping me in the past, after a full body massage, but for me, I always feel it's completely useless and leaves ugly marks for days.

That's about the size of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
A good Chinese style full body massage is more than good enough for fast recovery.

I found it didn't help me one bit.
If anything, it made me feel like I'd been pummeled to death.
It didn't feel nice at all and if I needed recovery, it certainly wouldn't have helped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
A good masseuse just by feel can feel precisely where all the aches and pain are, and then work to make it disappear base on Chinese science pressure points.

I've tried several times over the years and they've never found the aches and pains without having to ask me.
I found their style of massage actually introduced more pain than I started with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Always works miracles for me.

We all know you aren't normal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
There is no scientific evidence cupping works for anything at all.

Typical chinese therapy and most medical practices - they don't work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I guess it's just suction of the skin, and the sensation of it is rather relaxing. I think it just relaxes.

That crazy tingling just sent me nuts.
Rather than relaxing, it was damned annoying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
But Chinese physician will claim it draws out toxin, pain, everything mythical.

Take a look at Peon's link.
The practice actually created pain and it damned near killed the guy with sepsis toxin.
To a greater or lesser degree, that's what it does on every application of it.
I can't see that deliberately creating bruises on the body is helpful in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
And it's so funny the Russians are equating cupping to taking performance enhancement drugs now haha!

Got a cite for that??

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 2:32:36 PM

DocStrange

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

It's so interesting how they believe in it. I think it's psychological.

My masseuse ALWAYS insist on cupping me in the past, after a full body massage, but for me, I always feel it's completely useless and leaves ugly marks for days. A good Chinese style full body massage is more than good enough for fast recovery. A good masseuse just by feel can feel precisely where all the aches and pain are, and then work to make it disappear base on Chinese science pressure points. Always works miracles for me.

There is no scientific evidence cupping works for anything at all.

I guess it's just suction of the skin, and the sensation of it is rather relaxing. I think it just relaxes.

But Chinese physician will claim it draws out toxin, pain, everything mythical.

And it's so funny the Russians are equating cupping to taking performance enhancement drugs now haha!

I would not say there is no scientific evidence cupping works for anything. There have been studies, albeit, of low quality that shows cupping has some benefits in certain circumstances.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289625/
http://bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6882-10-70

The is no scientific study disproving cupping. Does it work? Well I think that remains to be seen. It would appear to answer that question appropriately some modern clinical studies are needed.

I am not ready to jump on the band wagon to say it is not beneficial or that is does nothing. I think more clinical data is needed to make that statement. Many people did not believe in acupuncture for pain relief either but medical science has prove it does help.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 8:41:47 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Then why do you persist in paying to have it done?

In my traditional chinese massage dude, whether I choose to have cupping or not done to me. There is no extra charge, so it's completely FOC. My masseuse have been my masseuse for 15 years. So sometimes, she really tells me she thinks cupping is for my own good, and I should do it more often, I just let her do it sometimes, because she truly believe in it's benefits for my health. And she never charges me for it, ever.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/10/2016 8:45:02 PM >

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 8:43:28 PM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

A friend of mine on FB has been raging about this - from the 'anti' side. No evidence that it does any good, he says. A few people have said things along the lines of, 'Hey, so what if it's only placebo and superstition, we're talking the *Olympics*, here!'

In response, he posted this gruesome story of how cupping can go wrong:

[Warning, pictures aren't for the faint-hearted]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3655854/When-cupping-goes-wrong-Man-left-seven-horrific-holes-month-long-botched-therapy.html

As with any alternative treatment. You need a trained professional. I have never got burnt, but you can get burnt if someone doesn't know what they are doing, after all, it involves fire.

Secondly, same can happen with inexperienced chiropractors. Some have broken necks.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 8:48:43 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I found it didn't help me one bit.
If anything, it made me feel like I'd been pummeled to death.

I doubt that is a good masseuse you have. Because the one I have, never ever use strength. It's always completely so relaxing that I fall asleep. She said sore muscles cannot press too hard, or it will make it worst and aggravate. Many masseuse got it wrong, and I totally agree because her results are always amazing for my muscle recovery after a hard work out. You need to exert just the right pressure at right pressure points. And this is by feel and experience and skills. It's not supposed to be painful. Most of the time, it's challenging not to fall asleep because it's so soothing and relaxing. It just relaxes you all over, and you aren't suppose to feel any pain at all, as it's very gentle.

So I don't think you are getting an authentic one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Got a cite for that??

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/08/michael-phelps-cupping-russian-tv-meldonium-rio-2016

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/10/2016 8:54:09 PM >

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 9:38:51 PM

LadyPact

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<Looks up. Yep. Still on CM. Kink site. Check.>

Fire cupping is bad now?

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/10/2016 11:01:29 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I found it didn't help me one bit.
If anything, it made me feel like I'd been pummeled to death.

I doubt that is a good masseuse you have. Because the one I have, never ever use strength. It's always completely so relaxing that I fall asleep. She said sore muscles cannot press too hard, or it will make it worst and aggravate. Many masseuse got it wrong, and I totally agree because her results are always amazing for my muscle recovery after a hard work out. You need to exert just the right pressure at right pressure points. And this is by feel and experience and skills. It's not supposed to be painful. Most of the time, it's challenging not to fall asleep because it's so soothing and relaxing. It just relaxes you all over, and you aren't suppose to feel any pain at all, as it's very gentle.

So I don't think you are getting an authentic one.

I'm not talking about one masseuse here.
I have been to about a dozen different ones over the years.
Some male but mainly female ones.
All were exactly the same - I wasn't relaxed afterwards and in more pain than before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Got a cite for that??

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/08/michael-phelps-cupping-russian-tv-meldonium-rio-2016

If you bothered to read the link you gave, it makes no such claim.

It actually says: “According to them, vacuum-based massage improves circulation and overall well being, suggesting that muscle repair happens faster after physical exertion. In other words, the net effect from such practices in many ways, is not unlike those of meldonium.”.
Perhaps your understanding of English isn't as good as you thought it was.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 12:58:36 AM

Greta75

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quote:

I'm not talking about one masseuse here.
I have been to about a dozen different ones over the years.

Then all I can say, UK has crappy masseuses. I've been for massages all over south east asia and almost every masseuse learn from a different school of massage and have loads of variations and different beliefs. But very few masseuse can feel with their hands, without asking you for feedback to find the right places. My frequency of massage, especially in my younger days was as much as 3 times a week. I just love it, it's so comfortable and relaxing. And everywhere I travel to in Asia, I go massage, except in Western countries, because I always think they don't really have the skills there to do it right. And also, in Asia, massage places are like at every corner, as much as food stalls, in the West, you gotta make appointments, can't walk in, it's troublesome for a tourist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

It actually says: “According to them, vacuum-based massage improves circulation and overall well being, suggesting that muscle repair happens faster after physical exertion. In other words, the net effect from such practices in many ways, is not unlike those of meldonium.”.
Perhaps your understanding of English isn't as good as you thought it was.

Dude, the Russians want Michael Phelps penalized for using cupping, as they equate it to the same effects as using drugs. Don't you understand what the article is about?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/11/2016 1:06:31 AM >

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 1:03:08 AM

freedomdwarf1

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That's not what I read in the link Greta.

Maybe that's how you saw it, but I didn't.

The Russians are generally miffed at having many of their athletes excluded from Rio 2016 and also at having their total Paralympic team banned.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 1:04:54 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That's not what I read in the link Greta.

Maybe that's how you saw it, but I didn't.

The Russians are generally miffed at having many of their athletes excluded from Rio 2016 and also at having their total Paralympic team banned.

The specific drug that got Russians banned was meldonium and they were making the case that the effects of cupping is no difference from taking meldonium. They want Phelps to be banned too, as they feel cupping is the equivalent of meldonium.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/11/2016 1:08:12 AM >

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 1:18:00 AM

freedomdwarf1

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There's a big difference between "...is the equivalent of meldonium" (your words) and what is reported as "...is not unlike those of meldonium.".
And in the case of the IOC, meldonium is a banned substance.
Using a technique to induce 'similar effects' within the body without taking anything is quite a different matter.

Equivalence is quite exacting; 'not unlike' is a much looser similarity but not equivalent.
Nuances of the English language.

You are putting a spin on the context that isn't there by using different words.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 1:38:15 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That's not what I read in the link Greta.

Maybe that's how you saw it, but I didn't.

The Russians are generally miffed at having many of their athletes excluded from Rio 2016 and also at having their total Paralympic team banned.

The specific drug that got Russians banned was meldonium and they were making the case that the effects of cupping is no difference from taking meldonium. They want Phelps to be banned too, as they feel cupping is the equivalent of meldonium.

No where in that article you cited does it even hint the Russians want Phelps banned, all they said is that the effects are similar to the drug.

Now if you saw that in the article, cut and past it here, simple enough. The Russian tv broadcast linked to from the article does not even state that.

All they, or any Russian news agency has said, is that cupping is comparable in effect to the banned drug, so it is the same thing.

But making the claim and demanding he be banned are two different things. In point of fact, the Russian Olympic committee itself is being quiet on the wholes subject, so even the officials that would have to make that demand are not making it.

FYI, massage, although generally relaxing is not always so, each human is different and in some cases, such as in physical therapy, massage is often painful, regardless of who, what sex or how gentle the masseuse tries to be.

It is relaxing to YOU, and your experience is by no means applicable to every human on the planet.

In other words, you have made an assumption, based on your experience, and applied it to an entire population group.

Here's your sign.

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RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 7:14:45 AM

Greta75

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quote:

FYI, massage, although generally relaxing is not always so, each human is different and in some cases, such as in physical therapy, massage is often painful, regardless of who, what sex or how gentle the masseuse tries to be.

It is relaxing to YOU, and your experience is by no means applicable to every human on the planet.

In other words, you have made an assumption, based on your experience, and applied it to an entire population group.

I bet I can massage anybody and it doesn't hurt. It's all about pressure. Some masseuse believe in using pain to counter pain. Some people love painful massages and will ask the masseuse to use more force.

But it's all about the amount of pressure applied.

Like when I do foot reflexology, I ask them to only gently stroke my feet, zero pressure at all, so it's nice and relaxing. Some of my friends may want them to kill them with pain and ask for it to be harder. You know my best sex attended a theraputic massage class, and the massage does not even involve skin contact, but stroking very close to the skin to make the hair stand and you can kinda feel sensation, but no skin contact at all. That is another zero pain massage. I remembered when I was so excited he was taking the class, then I ask him to apply to me on what he learn in class, and I was like WTF? You aren't even touching me lol. And he said, yea that's exactly what it's suppose to be.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/11/2016 7:19:08 AM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Cupping used in the USA Olympics Team - 8/11/2016 8:55:11 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

FYI, massage, although generally relaxing is not always so, each human is different and in some cases, such as in physical therapy, massage is often painful, regardless of who, what sex or how gentle the masseuse tries to be.

It is relaxing to YOU, and your experience is by no means applicable to every human on the planet.

In other words, you have made an assumption, based on your experience, and applied it to an entire population group.

I bet I can massage anybody and it doesn't hurt. It's all about pressure. Some masseuse believe in using pain to counter pain. Some people love painful massages and will ask the masseuse to use more force.

But it's all about the amount of pressure applied.

Like when I do foot reflexology, I ask them to only gently stroke my feet, zero pressure at all, so it's nice and relaxing. Some of my friends may want them to kill them with pain and ask for it to be harder. You know my best sex attended a theraputic massage class, and the massage does not even involve skin contact, but stroking very close to the skin to make the hair stand and you can kinda feel sensation, but no skin contact at all. That is another zero pain massage. I remembered when I was so excited he was taking the class, then I ask him to apply to me on what he learn in class, and I was like WTF? You aren't even touching me lol. And he said, yea that's exactly what it's suppose to be.

Take it from someone going to PT three times a week, for the last 10 fucking years, if they do it so it does not hurt, then the desired result aint going to happen.

Not to mention there are a number of medical conditions which result in over sensitive nerves, thus massage would be painful even if done correctly.

Edited to remove anything that could possibly be considered an insult.

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