RE: Milwaukee Burning

RE: Milwaukee Burning (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/14/2016 7:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities.

Edwird -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/14/2016 9:39:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Granting that there have been police shootings where outrage is warranted, arson and destruction in a case where the guy was armed and refused to drop the weapon when ordered to do so? Hard to justify the crowd's outrage on this one. However, the events are kind of murky. Kid was being chased while carrying a gun. Was he shot in the back while he ran? Was he backed against a wall? Was he a threat to the officer's life? Does any of that matter? Difficult to draw any conclusion expect yours until the body video is released. A person with a handgun fleeing is a danger to the public. A person fleeing with no weapon is a good target for police with no shooting skills. A policeman firing at supposedly close range is a greater danger to the public. Where's the bullet going to land? As per recent events, the bigger question is whether hair-trigger police are the greater danger, depending on perspective. http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-south-carolina-murder-charge-20150407-story.html I don't feel 'safer' after any of that, and certainly not from the CC folks who are hopelessly behind even the police in regard to shooting skills or judgement. Or is this another expense of good sense regarding kids shooting moms? Not even putting up links for that, numerous as they are. I can only take so much.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/14/2016 10:38:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities. A goo step toward improving community-police relations would be to stop pointing guns at them.

Real0ne -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/14/2016 11:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So we have to assume the cops are lying right? always. only a fool wouldnt since they are a big business, on the stock market which rivals the national. Prisons for Profit America's Top Prison Corporation: A Study in Predatory Capitalism and Cronyism Thursday, 03 May 2012 09:27 By Dina Rasor, Truthout \| News Analysis Prisoners in paper(Image: Jared Rodriguez / Truthout)Last week I wrote about the private prison company The GEO Group and how allowing private businesses to operate prisons can affect our justice system, our laws and the fate of our prison population. This week, I will tackle the largest private prison company, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and its unprecedented proposal to buy prisons from money-strapped states, as well as how CCA has gamed the system with trips through the revolving door, self-dealing and influence peddling. Just to set the stage as to how large the prison population is in the United States: our prison population is the highest in the world; one out of 100 US residents are in prison. This number has grown dramatically since 1990, due to tighter crime laws and longer sentences. According to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), "Between 1970 and 2005, the number of people incarcerated in the United States grew by 700 percent. Today, the United States incarcerates approximately 2.3 million people." The private prison population has also been exploding. From the ACLU: Even compared to this breathtaking rate of overall growth in incarceration, the rate of expansion of for-profit imprisonment far outpaced the field, accounting for a disproportionate increase in the number of people locked up. In 1980, private adult prisons did not exist on American soil, but by 1990 private prison companies had established a firm foothold, boasting 67 for-profit facilities and an average daily population of roughly 7,000 prisoners. During the next twenty years (from 1990 to 2009) the number of people incarcerated in private prisons increased by more than 1600%, growing from approximately 7,000 to approximately 129,000 inmates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds Time to pick up a few shares their stock are doing great! Corrections Corporation of America Common Stock Quote & Summary Data CXW $27.2 0.19 0.69% Find a broker to begin trading CXW now Exchange: NYSE Industry: Consumer Services Community Rating: Bullish CXW CAW CCA Today's High /Low $ 27.58 / $ 27.145 Share Volume 1,391,170 90 Day Avg. Daily Volume 677,268 Previous Close $ 27.39 52 Week High/Low $ 35.05 / $ 24.21 Market cap $ 3,196,613,034 P/E Ratio 15.81 Forward P/E(1y) 10.26 Earnings Per Share (EPS) $ 1.72 Annualized dividend $ 2.16 Ex Dividend Date Jun. 29, 2016 Dividend Payment Date Jul. 15, 2016 Current Yield 7.89 % Beta 0.39 Intraday Chart Intraday Chart 5d 1m 6m 12m More Charting ETFs with CXW as a Top 10 Holding* Weighting ETF Name (Symbol) 100-Day Price Change (%) 2.07% PowerShares KBW Premium Yield Equity REIT Portfolio ETF (KBWY) +6.79 (21.78%) Data is provided by Barchart.com. Data reflects weightings calculated at the beginning of each month. Data is subject to change. Green highlights the top performing ETF by % change in the past 100 days. Company Description (as filed with the SEC) We are the nation's largest owner of privatized correctional and detention facilities and one of the largest prison operators in the United States. As of December 31, 2015, we owned or controlled 66 correctional and detention facilities and managed an additional 11 facilities owned by our government partners, with a total design capacity of approximately 88,500 beds in 20 states and the District of Columbia. We are a Real Estate Investment Trust, or REIT, specializing in owning, operating, and managing prisons and other correctional facilities and providing residential, community re-entry, and prisoner transportation services for governmental agencies. In addition to providing fundamental residential services, our facilities offer a variety of rehabilitation and educational programs, including basic education, faith-based services, life skills and employment training, and substance abuse treatment. Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/cxw#ixzz4HLlcapWQ You do understand that you are advocating anarchy.* Yeh quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I do not believe he is per se, but wants government to be very limited. T^T correct MISCONCEPTIONS OF ANARCHISM (This talk discussed the main principles of constructive anarchism.) Anarchism Is Not Absolute Anti-social Individualism Anarchism does not connote absolute, irresponsible, anti-social individual freedom which violates the rights of others and rejects every form of organization and self-discipline. Absolute individual freedom can be attained only in isolation- if at all: "What really takes away liberty and makes initiative impossible is the isolation which renders one powerless." (Errico Malatesta, Life and Ideas, Freedom Press, p. 87) Anarchism Is Not Unlimited Liberty Nor the Negation of Responsibility In social relations between people certain voluntary social norms will have to be accepted, namely, the obligation to fulfill a freely accepted agreement. Anarchism is not no government. Anarchism is self-government (or its equivalent, self-administration). Self-government means self-discipline. The alternative to self-discipline is enforced obedience imposed by rulers over their subjects. To avoid this, the members of every association freely make the rules of their association and agree to abide by the rules they themselves make. Those who refuse to live up to their responsibility to honor a voluntary agreement shall be deprived of its benefits. The Right to Secede Punishment for violation of agreements is balanced by the inalienable right to secede. The right of groups and individuals to choose their own forms of association is, according to Bakunin, the most important of all political rights. The abrogation of this right leads to the reintroduction of tyranny. You cannot secede from a jail. Secession will not paralyze the association. People with strong, overriding common interests will cooperate. Those who stand more to lose by seceding will compromise their differences. Those who have little or nothing in common with the collectivity will not hurt the association by seceding, but will, on the contrary, eliminate a source of friction, thereby promoting general harmony. Essential Difference Between Anarchism and the State The vast difference between the anarchist concept of freely accepted authority in the exchange of services which is the administration of things, differs fundamentally from the authority of the state, which is the rule over its subjects, the people. For example, repairing my television: the authority of the expert mechanic ends when the repairs are made. The same applies when I agree to paint the mechanic's room. The reciprocal exchange of goods and services is a limited, not a personal, cooperative relationship which automatically excludes dictatorship. But the state, on the contrary, is an all-pervading apparatus governing every aspect of my life from conception to death, whose every decree I am compelled to obey or suffer harrassment, abrogation of rights, imprisonment and even death. People can freely secede from a group or association, even organize one of their own. But they cannot escape the jurisdiction of the state. If they finally do succeed in escaping from one state to another they are immediately subjected to the jurisdiction of the new state. I had to highly edit that article since its not "my" version of anarchism, but it makes some nice bullet points. fundamentally all that is needed is courts and a minimal management system, not this gargantuan overlord hydra we call gubblemint that spits out rules and extorts money from us at every turn. Basically Bama, anarchism, that is real anarchism not the propaganda model has great responsibilities attached to it. Yes it is [e]State less and rejects the british system overlord style of gubblemint. when the state can murder a mentally retarded black kid in cold blood, oopsie, and all they get is fired from their job its time to take a closer look at the system lords and the system they forced upon us through their judicial cabal that you did not get to vote for and have no control over.

Kirata -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 5:28:30 AM)
~ FR ~ The mayhem in Milwaulkee continues.... At least one person was wounded after shots were fired and protesters threw objects at police in Milwaukee late Sunday night, a day after violence erupted overnight in the wake of the fatal shooting of a man by police, authorities said. Police said they were deploying armored vehicles to protect officers and to rescue a shooting victim, who was rushed to a hospital... The state is investigating the shooting, which killed Sylville K. Smith, 23, after he fled a police traffic stop on foot. Milwaukee Police Chief Edward said body camera video that hasn't been released shows that there was a "credible threat" to the officer, who has been identified only as a 24-year-old African-American man. At some point during the brief chase, Smith turned toward the officer with the gun in his hand, Flynn said, citing the video... Four businesses were destroyed or burned badly, seven squad cars were damaged, and four officers were injured in the chaos Saturday night. Seventeen people were arrested, and 48 shots or series of shots were fired, according to police. A teenage girl was injured by a stray bullet, police said. Officials said no shots were fired by police, and there have been no reports of use of force by officers. ~NBC News K.

vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 6:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities. A goo step toward improving community-police relations would be to stop pointing guns at them. We don't know that the gun was pointed at the cop. If the kid turned toward him with gun in hand the cop had justification for shooting, no doubt. However, as i said above, the problem of American Apartheid is much greater than this single shooting incident, and i fail to see an easy solution given the economic and technological changes already here and more coming down the road in the future.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:17:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities. A goo step toward improving community-police relations would be to stop pointing guns at them. We don't know that the gun was pointed at the cop. If the kid turned toward him with gun in hand the cop had justification for shooting, no doubt. However, as i said above, the problem of American Apartheid is much greater than this single shooting incident, and i fail to see an easy solution given the economic and technological changes already here and more coming down the road in the future. If someone is pointing a gun in your general direction I doubt that you will quible over a couple degrees off directly at you. And he didn't point the gun in the direction of the cop because of your imagined Apartheid, he did it to scare the cop into not chasing him secure in the knowlege that the cop wouldn't dare shooting due to his parinoid fear that there would be a riot if he did. Maybe you should experiance Apartheid before you accuse America of practicing it, or better yet go someplace where they treat blacks correctly.

JeffBC -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:27:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So we have to assume the cops are lying right? Given the number of times that police reports, official statements, and "investigations" have failed to coincide with video evidence and given the amount of cover-up that automatically happens any time there is an incident like this... Yes. I assume that the cops are lying. What do you do when you find the information you receive from some source is routinely unreliable? Note, I'm also not in favor of an assumption of guilt on the part of the officer. I just assume that whatever I'm being told by "the authorities" is probably bullshit to some degree or another and feel we need an outside investigative body. Sadly, in the US I'm not sure where we'd find a reliable one.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:37:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So we have to assume the cops are lying right? Given the number of times that police reports, official statements, and "investigations" have failed to coincide with video evidence and given the amount of cover-up that automatically happens any time there is an incident like this... Yes. I assume that the cops are lying. What do you do when you find the information you receive from some source is routinely unreliable? Note, I'm also not in favor of an assumption of guilt on the part of the officer. I just assume that whatever I'm being told by "the authorities" is probably bullshit to some degree or another and feel we need an outside investigative body. Sadly, in the US I'm not sure where we'd find a reliable one. The police do not give out details until the investigation is complete. In the mean time we are regailed with "eye witness" accounts from people who weren't even there that Michael Brown was on his knees having surrenered when he was shot repeatedly in the back of the head. The catchphase for BLM "hands up don't shoot" is based on that lie. There have been cases where the original statements by the cops are wrong, and who cmes up with the proof it is wrong? Not the rioters, not the protestors, the cops who you only trust when they through an officer under the bus.

Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:47:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch My CCW, stamped right on it, tells any cop to pull it if I am found armed around alcohol, don't follow a lawful order or show it in public without cause. You just don't pull a gun around a working cop.

Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities. It's also been governed by the liberal failed policies for decades.

JeffBC -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:54:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD There have been cases where the original statements by the cops are wrong, and who cmes up with the proof it is wrong? Not the rioters, not the protestors, the cops who you only trust when they through an officer under the bus. You and I have a very different understand of how this process occurs. It seems to be the activists who come up with the proof which they then have to jam down the throats of the local judiciary which typically is completely uninterested. If I believed as you did then I wouldn't be supportive of BLM. In my mind, the "cops" have proven 100% ineffective at policing themselves... as most groups prove to be. In fact, I could question whether "self policing" is even a thing.

Termyn8or -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:55:57 PM)
"People can freely secede from a group or association, even organize one of their own." Think Rand Paul. Made his own board of certification for ophthalmologists. So what is wrong with that ? He graduated and is competent from what I've heard. Being a politician if he was sued for malpractice it would be front page news because the media is so against him. I am also waiting for the media barrage if Bernie Sanders gets a speeding ticket. The media is not so slanted one way or the other, but they are slanted against outsiders. All this just gave me an idea. T^T

Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:56:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So we have to assume the cops are lying right? Given the number of times that police reports, official statements, and "investigations" have failed to coincide with video evidence and given the amount of cover-up that automatically happens any time there is an incident like this... Yes. I assume that the cops are lying. What do you do when you find the information you receive from some source is routinely unreliable? Note, I'm also not in favor of an assumption of guilt on the part of the officer. I just assume that whatever I'm being told by "the authorities" is probably bullshit to some degree or another and feel we need an outside investigative body. Sadly, in the US I'm not sure where we'd find a reliable one. You'll have to provide cites on all of those number of times. From what I've been seeing the police actions have been justified. So, I'd really be interested in seeing your citations to fill in my knowledge.

Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 2:58:23 PM)
Apparently, the kid's father just came out and said it was his fault. He says that he's been in and out of jail so much that he's been a poor role model.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 3:12:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD There have been cases where the original statements by the cops are wrong, and who cmes up with the proof it is wrong? Not the rioters, not the protestors, the cops who you only trust when they through an officer under the bus. You and I have a very different understand of how this process occurs. It seems to be the activists who come up with the proof which they then have to jam down the throats of the local judiciary which typically is completely uninterested. If I believed as you did then I wouldn't be supportive of BLM. In my mind, the "cops" have proven 100% ineffective at policing themselves... as most groups prove to be. In fact, I could question whether "self policing" is even a thing. Then you only acknowlege those things that fit your view. Having spent most of my life around cops I know that your view is wrong.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 3:15:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So we have to assume the cops are lying right? Given the number of times that police reports, official statements, and "investigations" have failed to coincide with video evidence and given the amount of cover-up that automatically happens any time there is an incident like this... Yes. I assume that the cops are lying. What do you do when you find the information you receive from some source is routinely unreliable? Note, I'm also not in favor of an assumption of guilt on the part of the officer. I just assume that whatever I'm being told by "the authorities" is probably bullshit to some degree or another and feel we need an outside investigative body. Sadly, in the US I'm not sure where we'd find a reliable one. You assume that the cops are lying but that isn't assuming that they are in the wrong?

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 3:18:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Apparently, the kids father just came out and said it was his fault. He says that he's been in and out of jail so much that he's been a poor role model. That had to be hard for him to say. I just saw that his sister is demanding that the cop be charged.

Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 3:23:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Apparently, the kids father just came out and said it was his fault. He says that he's been in and out of jail so much that he's been a poor role model. That had to be hard for him to say. I just saw that his sister is demanding that the cop be charged. I'm not sure Bama. I heard what he said. I couldn't tell from hearing him if he was taking blame for his lifestyle or blaming society for locking him up so many times. The newscast said he took responsibility.

Marini -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/15/2016 6:06:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince... when a police officer is chasing you and says drop your gun... it makes no difference if you have a permit or not. Now there will be, as there should be, an investigation and if lawful citizens want to protest that is there right... But there is no excuse for what is happening Milwaukee. There is a difference between lawful protest and attacking innocents and destroying property. Butch Oh, I never claimed this was a lawful protest. And it probably involves much more than this particular incident. Like many other major northern cities Milwaukee is suffering the consequences of the immigration of southern blacks and the simultaneous or subsequent loss of low skill manufacturing jobs. According to an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., Milwaukee is the worst city for black Americans. Among other things, the unemployment rate among black Americans in the city is 17.2%, against a 6.0% unemployment rate among all people. The median household income among African Americans in the city is 41.6% that of the whites Like in other parts of the Midwest, large numbers of African Americans traveled to the Milwaukee area in the 1960s to take advantage of the booming manufacturing industry. Soon after a black community formed, however, the city’s industrial base all but collapsed, contributing to racial disparities in the region. An estimated 16.7% of the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis metro area identify as black, higher than the nationwide proportion. In Milwaukee proper, however, roughly 40% of the population identifies as black. source Prominent civil rights groups have banded together to ask Wisconsin and Milwaukee to take steps to improve police-community relations in Milwaukee. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, the Jewish Community Relations Council and the League of United Latin American Citizens have formed a civil rights coalition calling for change. Fred Royal, president of the NAACP Milwaukee chapter, said the state Legislature should create a diverse board of Milwaukee citizens to oversee investigations and make recommendations pertaining to officer-involved shootings and other "critical incidents." The board would be different from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission, Royal said. source Given the racial disparities this looks more or less like a mini version of Watts or Detroit back in the day. I suspect there is no near future solution for the apartheid problem in our major cities. Unemployment basically 20%, many disenfranchised there. Vincent, do you ever wonder why the media doesn't focus more on these pockets of society, where 1 in 4 are unable to find employment? They showed us a short video at work today, about a teenager recently released from jail. He and his mother were in tears, he was selling drugs to help mom pay the rent at 16. The counselor asked how they could help him. He asked through his tears if they could help him find a job. So many untold stories about this economy these days.

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