quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

I'm curious, throughout your life, have all of your hard boundaries always stayed the same?
-my BDSM life? Basically yeah, however one got added about 9 years ago, it was the one and only time I hooked up with a married man, however he never told me or his other partners he was married. He had some sort of mommy fetish and wanted to drink milk out of submissive's nipples, that is now a hard limit for me. Why a person painted himself as a Dominant to act like a submissive is beyond me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fr~

I think the theoretical concept is sound. I have bigger issues with implementation. You would know better than I LP, but this seems like an attempt to legislate common sense. I've seen a few people come into the scene and the ones who would need this message never would've listened to it. Your experience, of course, is MUCH broader than mine. So if you think you can actually implement this in an effective fashion then go for it.

edited to add:

Mind if I give it a second shot?
Nope and whatever happened, I'm glad I glossed over it. :)

When you live with or are in the relationship with the person you kink with, sometimes, some of this stuff is easier. While it's probably an over-generalization, if the kink goes good, and it's a loving relationship, the sex is going to follow. So, unless there's an actual problem or something 'comes up,' there's not a lot of focus on negotiating whether there's going to be sexual contact or not. Casual play comes close to being the opposite. If you don't negotiate the potential of sexual contact or not, that can be some pretty murky water. We all hear the horror stories about that.
I agree this is largely an issue pertinent to people not already in a LTR. They may not be casual. They might also be just starting a LTR and not have the foundation that time would bring. But for a couple like Carol & I, starting this ~10 years into a marriage, what was there to negotiate?

Me: Wanna obey?
Her: OK, with some hesitation.
Me: OK, then obey until you don't want to.

What else might we have discussed given how well we already knew each other? It was easy enough just to work together as a team from that point onwards. Ditto with things like after care. It honestly doesn't matter to me why Carol might need some care. If she needs it then I need to deliver it. Again, no negotiation required.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
BDSM enforces an unearned intimacy during play. You're allowing someone to do things to your body which you wouldn't allow a casual stranger to do (well, if you have any sense of self-preservation, that is) and the resulting sense of intimacy is illusory. It compresses the learning experience by which people build trust.

It's no wonder then that the casual play space is replete with systemic claims of trust violation. (I say claims because I strongly suspect a significant percentage are based on a failure to communicate effectively).

A sub playing casual runs the risk of consent violation. A Dom playing casual runs the risk of being accused of consent violation by a malicious or nutty sub. Attempting to build a consent framework around casual play strikes me as pointless because you're attempting to impose rationality on people who can be irrational at best or downright insane at worst. It's always going to run the risk of failure because people are not rational actors - and BDSM people more so than most.

I think it's far better for people to realise they're taking a hell of a risk when they play casually - and their decisions should be based upon an understanding of that very real risk, rather than lulled into a false sense of security by exchanging acronyms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta


Attaching the idea of OWYN to a relationship is flogging a dead horse, IMH, but it's sorely needed in the casual and play-by-scene realms. To be effective, it needs to be a process, not a philosophy, so for example, a standard questionnaire/consent-form rather than an abstract "we support this idea" concept.

It should bring up things that people tend to forget to think about in the heat of the moment making their arrangements, like sub drop, contact after the fact, expectations outside the scene, etc. In a serious relationship, that stuff will come up as it comes up and get dealt with, but in everything else, most times people just never thought about it before hand.

A signed form wth the terms of the scene would also nip a lot of the unwarranted trust violation dramas in the bud, I think.