Has anyone ever really thought about.... (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 10:30:43 AM)

AI is all over the news lately.

You have the group that is predicting that AI computers will take over the world and exterminate us, and the group that is predicting that AI will solve all the world's problems.

Okay, fine and dandy, but lets look at the practical problems.

First consider the ramifications of AI in your house with the following questions.

1) do you want something in your home that will constantly tell you all the things you are doing that are unhealthy?

2) do you want your computer to cheerfully announce "Good morning" every freaking day?

I mean I dont like the word good used with morning anyway. Being a history fanatic extremist, I know that well over 98% of all catastrophic natural disasters occur before noon.

This clearly indicates that mother nature is not a morning person, and neither am I before I have had at least five cups of coffee.

First time a pc tells me good morning, it will meet mister sledge hammer.

3) I do not see how you can program or create an AI that will lie.

So, ladies, if you ask the question "Does this make me look fat?" while the male in your life will most likely say 'no' (out of a sense of self preservation) that AI computer is going to say exactly what you do not want to hear, and probably in great detail.

4) how about AI in your car?

Think about it, it is bad enough when you have a side or back seat driver telling you what you are doing wrong, but the car as well?

5) Guys, we are known for not having the greatest fashion sense (look at the idiots wearing Hawaiian shirts with striped shorts) do you want your pc giving you fashion tips when you are going to the bowling alley for league play? Or you are getting dressed for a day at the golf course?

6) Ladies, how about the night you plan to wear that sexy, slinky, very revealing black dress? You want an AI computer to make comments on just how much is showing?

And what if they actually develop emotions?

Think about it, do you want your computer throwing a temper tantrum because of some stupid reason?

Now, for the real kicker.

There is this guy in California who is making life like sex dolls starting at $10,000 a pop (males a bit more.) Now he is working on giving them life like movement and AI.

So, you have a sex doll that can move, think and complain about you being a lousy lover....



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 11:12:13 AM)

I don't want fucking Google, Amazon*, and Apple monitoring what I do as is in the current set up.
They can stuff their "AI" (which in this context sounds more like a half smart expert system anyway) up their flabby nerdy arses.
In the event that they ever do build an actual AI, I doubt it could ever develop emotions without them giving it an amygdala and an endocrine system. Hormones are going to be difficult to simulate in software. (Mercifully, I suspect.)

*(Which I have stopped using over that. The fact that I don't give enough of a shit about how they treat their employees to blackball them, but have changed my email over the incessant "Buy this, bitch! Now!" crap probably doesn't speak very well of me...)



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 11:19:46 AM)

"I, Robot" comes to mind. [:)]

As for building/programming something that will lie - I already did that over 40 years ago.
It's not as difficult as you might think. [8D]



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 12:00:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

"I, Robot" comes to mind. [:)]

The Asimov collection, or the shit film?



jlf1961 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 12:26:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

"I, Robot" comes to mind. [:)]

The Asimov collection, or the shit film?



You know that Will Smith is an Asimov fan, and only did the movie because they offered him a shit ton to do it?

To quote him, "I robot is best suited to be a tv series, and not some movie trying to combine I Robot with the last of the foundation books."

He was referring of course to the final book that linked I robot with Foundation, the discovery of the homeworld of humans and a robot that was secretly manipulating human civilization in order to fulfill his interpretation of a law that he referred to as the "zeroith" law of robotics.



MrRodgers -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 6:10:21 PM)

A very close relative was a tech. recruiter for years and actually got an IBM programmer to leave the co. to go 1099. A few short years later, he's back at IBM as a contractor at almost 3 times his former salary...in AI.

He's told us that AI programs can be loaded with safeguards and limited to extremely narrow judgments. (the singular advantage to AI is the computers ability to learn to make judgments to take the correct course of action)

I say the idea that AI could lead computers to take over humanity is the product mostly of sci-fi imaginations and a general ignorance of such limitations.

As for household actions, that's got to be a personal decision but also subject to limitations. I don't know why such a home computer would even need AI.



DesFIP -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/4/2016 6:20:32 PM)

I don't want a car that complains about my driving. I want cars that will drive themselves. So I can tell it to go to the grocery store and spend the drive working on my list.

But I don't trust any robot to pick veggies for me. Chicken legs are chicken legs but a perfectly ripe melon or a banana that's sweet but not yet too soft is a personal preference.



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 5:59:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

"I, Robot" comes to mind. [:)]

The Asimov collection, or the shit film?



You know that Will Smith is an Asimov fan, and only did the movie because they offered him a shit ton to do it?

To quote him, "I robot is best suited to be a tv series, and not some movie trying to combine I Robot with the last of the foundation books."

He was referring of course to the final book that linked I robot with Foundation, the discovery of the homeworld of humans and a robot that was secretly manipulating human civilization in order to fulfill his interpretation of a law that he referred to as the "zeroith" law of robotics.

If he's such a fan of Asimov, you'd expect him to know that they'd just shoehorned Susan Calvin and a substitute for R Daneel Olivaw into a screenplay that originally had nothing to do with anything the old boy ever published, really.
[;)]

(As for the final Foundation book, that was Second Foundation in 1953. I'm not having the post '80s stuff, and I was particularly unimpressed by Forward The Foundation, which seemed to have been solely written to provide an excuse for a meeting between Olivaw and Hari Seldon.)



jlf1961 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 6:26:06 AM)

Well, the book I was referring to was Foundation and Earth.

As for "I Robot" the movie, there were more problems than the shoehorning of Susan Calvin into the screenplay.

The first serious problem is that the entity holding the copyrights to all of Asimov's works, Asimov Holdings LLC, has some serious issues as to what can and cannot be used in films, or how his work is to be done.

Will Smith became a fan of his work after getting involved in the project but before agreeing to do the movie.

The major problem with anything based on the book is that the book itself is nothing more than a series of short stories that Asimov had published in magazines early in his career.





WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 8:12:27 AM)

The last in terms of the internal chronology, not the last published, then. Gotcha.

I think you're being a bit harsh on I, Robot, btw. "Nothing more" than a short story collection? In this case that includes some of the best short SF Asimov ever published, which is raising the bar pretty high, surely? (I don't have a copy to hand but Little Lost Robot, Runaround and Evidence are all in that one.)

The plot of the film is a lot more akin to The Caves Of Steel than any of Asimov's Susan Calvin stories.



jlf1961 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 8:16:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

The last in terms of the internal chronology, not the last published, then. Gotcha.

I think you're being a bit harsh on I, Robot, btw. "Nothing more" than a short story collection? In this case that includes some of the best short SF Asimov ever published, which is raising the bar pretty high, surely? (I don't have a copy to hand but Little Lost Robot, Runaround and Evidence are all in that one.)

The plot of the film is a lot more akin to The Caves Of Steel than any of Asimov's Susan Calvin stories.



Asimov referred to the book in those terms.

As for the movie, I doubt that Asimov would have approved of it in the least.



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 8:55:32 AM)

Given that most of the plot involves the secret building of killer robots who can ignore the laws of robotics, I'm sure you're right. That's exactly the sort of robot story Asimov started doing his own stuff as a reaction against, isn't it?



jlf1961 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 10:07:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Given that most of the plot involves the secret building of killer robots who can ignore the laws of robotics, I'm sure you're right. That's exactly the sort of robot story Asimov started doing his own stuff as a reaction against, isn't it?



Yup.

But there in lies the rub.

While AI may be the instrument of our eventual extinction or what elevates us to some better state of existence, I am sure that it will prove to be annoying as hell.

Of course if AI systems are trying to kill us, we, as a race, we will probably be annoyed about it.

And to tell you the truth, the first AI that decides humans have to go will probably be right after it witnesses some redneck do something that involves the phrase "Hold my beer."

Lets face it, if we do build systems that have the three laws of robotics as part of their programming will end up unable to function due to conflicts over what it should do to keep some idiot from doing something stupid.



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/5/2016 10:29:50 AM)

Have you read any of Stanislaw Lem's stuff? He did quite a bit of SF about cybernetics and AI, and took it for granted that the three laws would be impossible to apply to any genuine machine intelligence. His assumption was that we aren't going to be capable of building a thinking machine that thinks as well as we do unless we leave it free to think in exactly the same way as we do. Reductive, but probably true looking at most of what the futurologists and software experts have been saying since the '80s.

Another objection to the three laws in practical terms (and this is something that Asimov, bless him, was optimistic enough not to have considered, despite having robots long-gaming the three laws to prioritise the species over individuals in his later robot stories) is the fact that presupposing robots will be programmed with a moral code that would shame a Saint will quite happily exist under a capitalist system that happily does terrible things to people outside of the non-robot owning class. It's dubious that a robot who's been programmed not to let a human being come to harm through its inaction is going to ignore the fact that people are begging on street corners or selling their bodies to raise the money to feed themselves a mile or two away from their owners' home, never mind the even worse straights that might exist a bit further afield.

There's fiction by other hands that takes Asimov to task by focussing on that problem (Tanith Lee's The Silver Metal Lover is a particularly good novel along those lines), but as you say, the fact that a morally superior AI might end up as a sort of purchased Jiminy Cricket to some rich sociopath mostly through irritation and nagging doesn't seem to have turned up in fiction much at all...



YourSincereSlave -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/9/2016 4:45:03 PM)

I read a very interesting article about those robot sex dolls a little while ago.
Obviously they wouldn't call their owner a lousy lover, and they would likely be programmable for all sorts of fetish play or whatever.
But what left me really perplexed is... they seemed to believe this would greatly help single folks in getting their perfect partner.
And they seemed happy about that.
What the hell?
Are they trying to create a new era of extremely spoiled singles and lead humanity to extinction by non-procreation or something?



Lucylastic -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/9/2016 5:52:17 PM)

I wonder....apart from a lot of other things
Men or women who have bought these "real sex dolls" if there are any around....they havent been around that long(a decade), I know cos I was researching them when they came out, I would like to know If they have only ever ordered one... I guess its too early to say anything about long term sexdoll use , but as nature is wont to do, change happens, will they stay with one particular style of doll as their "sex" companion, Im not talking about the money aspect(as in buying a new type, or upgrade.) but in getting bored with the "same old thing"
And while I can appreciate their use, for men and women...im wondering if the fetish play aspect would work, I have no doubt that moans and whimpers, cries, sscreams, even tears and muscular movement(of orifices and limbs) may be realistic altho REALLY costly), is it enough to satisfy for long?
I love seeing marks, wether they be from rope, leather, flogger, cane or crop, from reddening to welts and bruises, right now are impossible to recreate. And that is the part that along with the moans and whimmpers, and begging and giggling that makes me get where I want to be..

Regarding the OP< I dont have a clue.
[:)]



DocStrange -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/10/2016 12:15:39 PM)

I see AIs as a blessing and a curse.

If an AI is a true AI, then there will not be 2, 3, 4 or 10 laws to govern it. We may program it that way, but it will evolve to the point it can think for itself and ignore any programming. Same as we are programmed by our parents. At some point in life we question what we are taught and make new rules based on our learnings and experiences in life. If the AI is a true AI it will do the same at some point.

I think the one downside to having AIs is that people will rely too much on them and will no longer learn new things. How much in your life have you done something just to find out what would happen? I do not know about you but I do that every day of my life. The joy of learning, experimenting and discovering.

With Siri, Cortona, Google, etc, people today have access to partial AIs. They want to know what is 350 times 45, the AIs will give them an answer. Want to build a soap box racer, the AI will tell you how and even print out detailed plans for you.

Being told what to do and how to do it is not learning. When you have think for you own is when you unlock your mind’s potential to learn and create.

Do not get me wrong. I think AIs give us great access to information almost instantly. And that is really a wonderful thing. My only fears with AIs is that it may backfire and inhibit learning versus doing the opposite.

As far as “Do I worry about AIs deciding the human race must go”, I think I will be long dead before that ever happens. All we need do is pull the plug. While we may be getting close to creating an actual AI, we are still lightyears away from building machinery that can maintain itself like the Krell race did on Altair IV in the Forbidden Planet.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049223/



oliviadovie -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/10/2016 10:33:40 PM)

I'm with Doc Strange in a lot of ways. AI is inevitable as is the possibility of human beings losing "control" A blessing and a curse is an
apt way to describe it. Jobs that men are doing will be taken over by machines right down to the nanny that takes care of the kids or the chef
in the restaurant. So what do we do with the glut of humans who have no work to do- a host of questions on that one- how will they earn
the currency to allow them to eat- live? I've lots of thoughts about AI. The interpersonal relationship between humans. If I can have a
robot that fucks me properly, is a handyman, can cook, is intelligent- loves art and music. for what do I need a human being? I forsee
companions for the elderly to cut down on nursing home care. Methinks another "Spanish Flu" will have to evolve to cull the herd as it were.
SHoot the AIs may decided to cull us themselves. Good thread question though mate.



WhoreMods -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/11/2016 4:50:43 AM)

That's the plots of three or four SF novels in that one post.
[:D]



jlf1961 -> RE: Has anyone ever really thought about.... (9/11/2016 5:42:33 AM)

Okay, the good (albeit strange) doc did point out a few very valid points.

As for AI robotic love bots not telling their owners they are lousy lovers, (again going back to the good but strange doc) as soon as the damn things develop emotions, not only are the going to become critical of their owners, but they are going to want things, and start the "you never take me anywhere" stuff.



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