In an effort to help Nicky out (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 12:31:48 PM)

I've always said that there were real issues that could be discussed about the male side of gender equality and yet somehow Nick passes on those for weirdly skewed fluff pieces. So since this just came up last night, here's what I think of as a "real" issue.

Last night Carol and I watched a very highly rated love story... "PS: I love you". The only thing I could think through most of the movie was man, if the genders were reversed here you'd have a very different reaction. What I saw was a physically and emotionally abusive woman who was gaslighting a good but clearly vulnerable male who loved her for reasons unknown (presumably because she was hot). What I kept thinking was, "Man, that guy desperately needs to get some therapy."

Carol, sitting right next to me on the couch thought it was pretty funny until I pointed it out. In fact, lots and lots of people obviously didn't care about this behavior since the film is well reviewed as a freakin LOVE STORY.

It's on Netflix. There's no need to watch anything more than the very first scene.

Thoughts?



Lucylastic -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 12:35:40 PM)

Gonna take a look at it Jeff, Ill be back
May I just say How glad I am that Narcos is back on netflix too.




JeffBC -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 12:38:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Gonna take a look at it Jeff, Ill be back

I'm sorry. That is not a valid response. As we all know, you as a woman cannot possibly care about male gender issues. :)

Thanks Lucy. I'll be interested to hear your take on it. Carol was equally aghast once I pointed it out but then again, she and I have been talking about the male portrayal in our society for some time so it wasn't new ground for her.

Just for the record, me having concerns about men's issues does not stop me from also being concerned about women's issues. I'd kind of like to get past the whole gender war thing.



Lucylastic -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 1:04:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Gonna take a look at it Jeff, Ill be back

I'm sorry. That is not a valid response. As we all know, you as a woman cannot possibly care about male gender issues. :)

Thanks Lucy. I'll be interested to hear your take on it. Carol was equally aghast once I pointed it out but then again, she and I have been talking about the male portrayal in our society for some time so it wasn't new ground for her.

Just for the record, me having concerns about men's issues does not stop me from also being concerned about women's issues. I'd kind of like to get past the whole gender war thing.

Well so far, Ive only seen the first scene or so, but, I hate "love stories". And I cant stand hillary swank, but I will stick with it.
and contrary to certain idiots beliefs, I actually do give a shit about the male gender.
[:)]





JeffBC -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 1:42:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Well so far, Ive only seen the first scene or so, but, I hate "love stories". And I cant stand hillary swank, but I will stick with it.

No need to suffer.

I was cringing before her very first line and teetering on the brink of finding something else to watch right after it. If you got through the whole bit where she refused to speak and then that "conversation" in their apartment and didn't find an issue then you're seeing it very differently than me.

- If Carol got angry at me and then refused to tell me why, she'd be looking at divorce right there and then. Carol and I never in a million years would've made it home that way. She would've answered or she'd have gone home alone... permanently.
- If Carol and I got into a discussion and every single time I asked a question she turned it around into something else laying the blame at my doorstep then she'd be looking at divorce right there.
- If Carol physically attacked me by throwing things at me, the first time it wouldn't necessarily be divorce but I make no promises about the second time.
- If Carol consistently tried to muddy the waters in a confrontation rather than seek clarity and unity, she'd be looking at a divorce right there.

And all of that is true... right now... with 20 years of marriage under our belt. NONE Of Swank's behaviors in that opening scene would've passed muster with me and I saw all of them as abusive. I would've defended my boundaries assertively.

edited to add:
This is tangential to my thread, but for the record, I was none too pleased with the portrayal of women in that movie either. The phrase "emotional hot mess" seemed to apply to most of them.




BamaD -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 1:58:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Well so far, Ive only seen the first scene or so, but, I hate "love stories". And I cant stand hillary swank, but I will stick with it.

No need to suffer.

I was cringing before her very first line and teetering on the brink of finding something else to watch right after it. If you got through the whole bit where she refused to speak and then that "conversation" in their apartment and didn't find an issue then you're seeing it very differently than me.

- If Carol got angry at me and then refused to tell me why, she'd be looking at divorce right there and then. Carol and I never in a million years would've made it home that way. She would've answered or she'd have gone home alone... permanently.
- If Carol and I got into a discussion and every single time I asked a question she turned it around into something else laying the blame at my doorstep then she'd be looking at divorce right there.
- If Carol physically attacked me by throwing things at me, the first time it wouldn't necessarily be divorce but I make no promises about the second time.
- If Carol consistently tried to muddy the waters in a confrontation rather than seek clarity and unity, she'd be looking at a divorce right there.

And all of that is true... right now... with 20 years of marriage under our belt. NONE Of Swank's behaviors in that opening scene would've passed muster with me and I saw all of them as abusive. I would've defended my boundaries assertively.



My 1st and 3rd wifes played that game of disagreeing with me is a sreious charaictor flaw, that is why they are ex wifes. Number two had a stroke and died the day before Thanksgiving 1999.
I know, I have a problem chosing the right women. Marriges are like Star Trek, the odd numbers suck (though my first wife didn't) but the even numbers make it worth coming back.



JeffBC -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 2:13:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
My 1st and 3rd wifes played that game of disagreeing with me is a sreious charaictor flaw, that is why they are ex wifes. Number two had a stroke and died the day before Thanksgiving 1999.
I know, I have a problem chosing the right women. Marriges are like Star Trek, the odd numbers suck (though my first wife didn't) but the even numbers make it worth coming back.

For me it was more "Third time's the charm". But there is a reason why Carol is still my wife and #1 & #2 are not. Carol, like everyone else, makes mistakes. But the moment I said to her something like:

"I know you're angry right now and you might need some time to organize your thoughts. But right here and right now I want a topic and pick a time tomorrow when you'll be ready to talk."

She would've immediately realized the rightness of that demand and complied.

What was concerning to me about the movie was that it's a 5 star love story. Let's be clear. I'm CM's official Disney Dom and proud of it. I adore love stories and sappy endings and all of that. I should have loved this movie. I didn't for the aforementioned reasons. Obviously, quite a few people didn't care about the things I considered abusive. Swapping the genders in my head readily gave me insight as to why.



Lucylastic -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 2:31:09 PM)

no no I did see an issue, lol, I just cant see the rest of it just yet.
I HATE HATE being in an argument where one side wont talk, sulks or threatens, be it man or woman.

In 30 years of marriage, I think I threw a plate of food on the floor, not at him, once.. He has destroyed cups mugs and plates, and walls. I dont because I really hate clearing up the resulting mess and the pitiful bullshit around it.
I wont and DONT suffer physical abuse I also dont give it. He is a recovering alcoholic. He hits me once, Im gone, he is in jail.

I have two rules, they were outlined at the beginning 31 years ago, hit me or cheat on me, Im gone. Everything else is negotiable, depending on mood and subject.
Do we fight? hell yes, always have , probably always will, and no not always fairly.
As I get older tho, I do recognize that I dont need to threaten or cajole or beg, I walk away. I dont need that shit in my life on a daily basis.
Some people thrive on conflict and bullying passively and aggressively with their other half, male and female.
As I said, I will add, more when Ive seen it.





ThatDizzyChick -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 3:00:45 PM)

quote:

Just for the record, me having concerns about men's issues does not stop me from also being concerned about women's issues.

To my mind there are no men's issues or women's issues, there are simply human issues.



BamaD -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 3:15:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
My 1st and 3rd wifes played that game of disagreeing with me is a sreious charaictor flaw, that is why they are ex wifes. Number two had a stroke and died the day before Thanksgiving 1999.
I know, I have a problem chosing the right women. Marriges are like Star Trek, the odd numbers suck (though my first wife didn't) but the even numbers make it worth coming back.

For me it was more "Third time's the charm". But there is a reason why Carol is still my wife and #1 & #2 are not. Carol, like everyone else, makes mistakes. But the moment I said to her something like:

"I know you're angry right now and you might need some time to organize your thoughts. But right here and right now I want a topic and pick a time tomorrow when you'll be ready to talk."

She would've immediately realized the rightness of that demand and complied.

What was concerning to me about the movie was that it's a 5 star love story. Let's be clear. I'm CM's official Disney Dom and proud of it. I adore love stories and sappy endings and all of that. I should have loved this movie. I didn't for the aforementioned reasons. Obviously, quite a few people didn't care about the things I considered abusive. Swapping the genders in my head readily gave me insight as to why.


Quite frequently if you gender or race swap the central characters in movies they suddenly become horrible.



DaddySatyr -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 3:38:43 PM)


Through the years, I have mentioned the undue influence that Hollywood (TV as well as movies) and Madison Avenue have on the social issues of the day. Usually, on these boards, I'm ridiculed and called horrible names for my efforts. I'm told "that's not real life", etc., but what these Socratic debaters fail to understand is that art sometimes imitates life, also.

I mentioned, once, the propensity for Oprah Winfrey audiences to bully a cheating male while allowing excuses to cheating females ("He worked so much he had no time for me so ..."). I talked about women being cheered on shows like Jerry Springer, Maury, and even the old Geraldo show when they hit (or sometimes flat-out beat up ) on a man.

If you look at a good portion of the sitcoms, white men are fair game for every joke in the program (some are even pretty crass), but if you "reverse the genders" (a term I've used here for which I was also ridiculed) - or the races or whatever - You'd have protests and sponsors pulling support and calls for the actors'/directors'/producers' jobs.

There was an episode of Criminal Minds where the serial killer was a black man and all the SJWs in Hollywood were up in arms. "Most serial killers are white, in real life!" "Very few serial killers are black". Likewise, very few television characters that are serial killers are black, but that seems to escape their notice.

It's a fact: We're living in a day and age of double standards. Anyone that says otherwise just ain't payin' attention or doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.



Michael



JeffBC -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 4:03:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
If you look at a good portion of the sitcoms, white men are fair game for every joke in the program (some are even pretty crass), but if you "reverse the genders" (a term I've used here for which I was also ridiculed) - or the races or whatever - You'd have protests and sponsors pulling support and calls for the actors'/directors'/producers' jobs.

A little off topic for this particular thread but I agree. I've said for the longest time that according to our cultural stereotypes, as a male I'm great at being a steely eyed killer but it's astonishing that I manage to put food in my mouth or tie my own shoelaces. Laundry is clearly a skill well beyond me and the idea I might be introspective and emotionally aware is preposterous. And that's before we even start with the sexual stereotypes like "hot to fuck anything in a skirt".

I often wonder if green berets bring a support troop of women along with them so they can get their boots laced up in the morning.



Lucylastic -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 4:27:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I often wonder if green berets bring a support troop of women along with them so they can get their boots laced up in the morning.


Ive been told by american and canadian tv commercials that I should dance and be dressed in pearls and a twinset while dusting my fan blades for 3 decades.... and that I can swim bike parasail and play the piano if I use wings. Or tampons. And that fat people are usually on tv to be made fun of.
cry me a river.[;)]
It sucks on both sides
I get haughty at the men are dumb adverts before the hubby does.
well except the "man cold" one, that is bloody hilariously accurate, however my monthlies are so painful, he gets looked after even if its a sniffle. (nursing is hard to give up).
Advertising and TV shits on everyone.

PS..the cry me a river was sposed to have the winky face emoticon there....
I have put it in late, because im tired and need a nap....
it wasnt meant as a nasty comment, more of a silly retort.



blnymph -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 4:37:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

...
I often wonder if green berets bring a support troop of women along with them so they can get their boots laced up in the morning.


Their moms ...[8|]



JeffBC -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 4:56:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Ive been told by american and canadian tv commercials that I should dance and be dressed in pearls and a twinset while dusting my fan blades for 3 decades.... and that I can swim bike parasail and play the piano if I use wings. Or tampons. And that fat people are usually on tv to be made fun of.

No argument. Note I said above that I was none too happy with the portrayal of women in the film.

cry me a river.
Yup, that's exactly what I want. Isn't that the heart of Nick's contention?

It sucks on both sides
Heh... and isn't that exactly what we are trying to fix... on both sides? If that's not true then Nick is right and feminism is a blight on society. More... while I wouldn't even begin to argue whether men are starting out in a better position here... way better in most cases... it's also true that that where there are abuses we don't have a movement to do anything about it. So the same sorts of cultural bias that feminism fought so hard against on the female side is completely unchallenged on the male side.

Where this gets really scary to me (and apparently to a non-trivial number of moms) is how this messaging gets propagated to young boys.




Lucylastic -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 5:08:00 PM)

please see my edit, I seriously wasnt trying to be a cunt
it was meant more tongue in cheek...




dcnovice -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 6:03:39 PM)

quote:

Marriges are like Star Trek, the odd numbers suck (though my first wife didn't) but the even numbers make it worth coming back.

I've always thought that about Star Trek too! And while I like all the Harry Potter books, my faves are the evens.



BamaD -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 6:12:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Marriges are like Star Trek, the odd numbers suck (though my first wife didn't) but the even numbers make it worth coming back.

I've always thought that about Star Trek too! And while I like all the Harry Potter books, my faves are the evens.

I have seen all the HP movies but I haven't read any of the books.
Also I don't care for the Star Trek reboot series, I think they would have been better off starting a series with a new ship, and a new cast of characters.



Termyn8or -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 6:18:02 PM)

Rules :

1. No house keys.

2. No car keys.

3. No joint bank account.

4. No mail delivered at my house.

5. No unprotected sex.

And you come with no luggage, when you leave you wear what you came here wearing. I don't even want to borrow your big stew pot. A buddy of mine has a bigger one. You don't answer the phone or the door. You threaten even to call the police you are dead on the spot, or walking down the fucking street.

It is my house, I don't want any of your money just a piece of ass. When I leave, you leave.

Case closed. I had enough of this bullshit and will NEVER do it again. Ever.

T^T



Greta75 -> RE: In an effort to help Nicky out (9/8/2016 6:19:30 PM)

I have to say, it is true. If gender roles were reversed, and a woman left commanding letters behind to her husband, like oh man! She'd be seen as a controlling bitch who still wants her claws on her husband after death.

I never watched this movie, as to me, I don't like unhappy love story, and to me, this is a super unhappy love story. Her love one died. The whole show is about him being dead!

That's horrible and depressing! I don't like thinking about anybody I love being dead.

It's just like the Notebook, another "love story" that I don't appreciate! And don't even find it romantic at all. It's like depressing and horrible throughout. Just makes you feel like, life sucks.




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