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RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 11:26:31 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How is it that an atheist or anybody for that matter could or would need to disprove the unproven ?

There are no facts or extrapolation of fact that any god exists, so no...there has been no 'proving' the existence of any god at all, in any way...at any time.





you first need to determine what 'existence' is before making such a statement. what is it?

For instance, Does your name exist?






Yea it does and we exist as we type, Like I agree with and think it was Shakespeare, 'I think...therefore I am.' In order to prove the existence of a god, one gets nowhere by questioning existing science.

The burden of proof is first and always on those suggesting...there is a god.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 11:31:02 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallClevDom

You've touched on the strong argument against "Intelligent Design" theory.

If the designer was so intelligent:
1. Why would he make our body susceptible to disease, infection, illness, birth defect and injury?
2. Why would he have parts of our body wear out (eyes, hearing, etc.) and also give our brain a lifespan that exceeds the lifespan of our body by at least 20-30 years?
3. Why would he make a planet for us where 90% of the surface area is completely uninhabitable?
4. And of the small area that is inhabitable, why would he subject it to earthquakes, typhoons, tsunamis, tornadoes, blizzards and floods?
5. Why does he require most species to be killed (and experience incredible amounts of pain while being killed) for food in order for other species to survive?

Overall, the designer did not demonstrate much intelligence and actually comes out looking cruel to the point of being downright psychotic.


Alert the media, it seems we agree on something, but I can field some of your questions.

As to number one, it is like the process of distillation. You start with that corn mash and it burns everything else off and you eventually wind up with the pure product you were looking for. Like refining gasoline or anything else, actually cracking petroleum is a fascinating process, they control temperature and pressure to get all kinds of thing, gasoline in not the only thing.

About number two, first of all many people get dementia in older age but then again many don't. But, we got seven billion people now, can you imagine the hell hole this world would be if people lived to be like 500 years old ?

On number three, that is how it is. The rest of the planet is what makes the livable parts livable. for example the oceans. The oceans supply most of the oxygen for us to breathe. There's two thirds of it, and we get about one third of what's left. Some is too swampy, some is desert. I don't see much purpose in the desert but it might have one that even experts have not discovered yet. Of course we could irrigate it with seawater and in time is would become arable, maybe it is like land in reserve.

Number four. There is no other way to maintain the environment. Ask California about an inversion layer. We burn shit and there has to be air current to blow that away. Plus if you know anything about climate and meteorology you now that these air current make MORE of the planet inhabitable, not less.

On number five, you mean like a lion eating a llama ? I am pretty sure the llama goes into shock. Humans do. When I got shot I only felt pain for a few seconds. But everything pretty much kills to survive. Even if you are a vegan, do those vegetable live and grow when you eat them ?

I know the answer to number five is inadequate, and perhaps there is no answer that is. But I tend toward the theory that it is the only way to make a world work. Even insects, some pollinate the plants. A few years ago they were worried about the bees. Mosquitos spread disease to thin the herd, because without predators most species' will over reproduce.

At seven billion, humans certainly have.

But anyway, I think it is only way the world can work. If you live to be 500 years old, well then you should not reach puberty and be able to reproduce until like age 400. If humans had litters of puppies like 12 of them, well PETA and the SPCA have to kill many of them every day. We have wars for that..

You made a good case. Life just happened. And if there is a god then that god is the universe and we are like cells of that body. That would mena that whatever is more than the sum of your parts would survive after your corporeal death. But people think they are going to see their Grandma and all that shit which is not true, IMO. When you lose your corporeal body you have no name, gender of family anymore. If there is any life after death maybe you do experience it but as a part of a superconcious or something like that. It might be great, and if you were a real motherfucker in life maybe it is not so great.

We are all going to find out.

T^T

When we die, we go to sleep, we don't dream and we...never wake up.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 11:58:27 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		There is no god(s) arguments can be made all religions/scribblings contain references to other worldly beings. I think they do and they stretch the four corners. Which is different for say someone's like Hancock's(him I like) hypothesis of lost civilisation-s (plausible) but it still overlook all those references.

I can neither disprove or prove a god.

Do cats go to heaven?
What is mother earth - to me vast complex and entwined - and i can expand that to this incarnation of the known universe.

I think there must always be balance

But I am of the belief should a god exists, which differs from omnipotent being, he would not be so cruel. But then I believe in him not -strange how it is always a him in most religions.

Not sure why you single out the nazis - oh the 100 million thing - that was alot in one sitting of a handful of years


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 11:58:42 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I don't see much purpose in the desert but it might have one that even experts have not discovered yet. Of course we could irrigate it with seawater and in time is would become arable, maybe it is like land in reserve.

You've got that one backwards: the main reason the Sahara is no longer arable land is that some fuckwit irrigated it with salt water when the Romans were over farming it during the early iron age.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

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RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 12:36:50 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Like I agree with and think it was Shakespeare, 'I think...therefore I am.'

Rene Descartes: Je pense, donc je suis

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

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RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 1:47:23 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How is it that an atheist or anybody for that matter could or would need to disprove the unproven ?

There are no facts or extrapolation of fact that any god exists, so no...there has been no 'proving' the existence of any god at all, in any way...at any time.





you first need to determine what 'existence' is before making such a statement. what is it?

For instance, Does your name exist?






Yea it does and we exist as we type, Like I agree with and think it was Shakespeare, 'I think...therefore I am.' In order to prove the existence of a god, one gets nowhere by questioning existing science.

The burden of proof is first and always on those suggesting...there is a god.


nope you gotta stay within the boundaries of the argument.

I asked you to state what 'existence' is to start, which carries the meaning of how you apply the word it preferably to this subject. You did not do that and until you do you do not have a bonafide argument for a subject such as this.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 5:48:57 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

nope you gotta stay within the boundaries of the argument.

Why? You never do.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 6:58:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		you dont understand, his version is shallow, I never do because I always look to the depths of an argument, if you are not able to connect the dots, it takes the appearance I am not within the argument when in fact I am.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 9:18:04 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline 		Existence is energy. That's it... nothing else.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 9:26:56 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Or to ask the question differently, why didn't God create a pink padded universe as a "safe space" for his little snowflakes?

Lol!
I want to be his little snowflake! Be happy to be treated as one! Pink Padded Universe please!!! Where is that type of God? I am joining that religion!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/17/2016 9:27:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/17/2016 9:46:32 PM   
longwayhome


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bondageerone

WHY did he/she make;;;;

diseases, the Nazis, do not go back too far, it could all be b/s.


We don't even begin to understand everything in the universe and even whether "our" universe constitutes the whole of existence.

God, no God?

If there is a God, a creative intelligence or an underlying meaning/energy, do you really think we are protected from our own misdeeds and cruelty. We already have more free will than any being on our little planet and have extended our own lives hugely. The only people who curse our species are ourselves. We do not need to look to blame God and use a lack of kindness as proof of non-existence.

Is there a God or not? Fuck knows. That doesn't stop us from taking responsibility for what we do and being better people.

The prologue of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy referred to a girl sitting in a cafe "nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change".

Guess it's all a bit too difficult.

Apologies for being so philosophical in such a nihilistic, self-absorbed age.

Perhaps if I could just find the perfect shag and a bigger house my existence would be worthwhile.

(in reply to bondageerone)
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RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 4:31:57 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Existence is energy. That's it... nothing else.

No, that's anger, not existence...

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 5:34:16 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I don't see much purpose in the desert but it might have one that even experts have not discovered yet. Of course we could irrigate it with seawater and in time is would become arable, maybe it is like land in reserve.

You've got that one backwards: the main reason the Sahara is no longer arable land is that some fuckwit irrigated it with salt water when the Romans were over farming it during the early iron age.


To make it arable you irrigate it with seawater however it does not become such overnight. In some places the elevation is too high for it to replenish its minerals naturally. Bringing in more seawater will NOT help in that case.

If you take a bulldozer, level the sand and lower its elevation, throw in a bunch of organic garbage and animal feces, and flood it with seawater it will become arable if you keep putting FRESH water into it.

In like thirty years. So if you start when you're 40 you won't be able to farm it, so naturally not that many people do it. And you also need rain, but where it doesn't rain, it doesn't rain because there is no moisture coming up from the ground to replenish the clouds. I know all about the higher clouds and the wind currents up there, but most of the rain comes from lower clouds.

Anyway, nobody will do it because they will not be likely to be able to realize a profit in their lifetime. A long time ago they did when one family ran a country, and one generation passed it on to another. Now nobody thinks past the quarterly report. Three months is all they think ahead at best. So basically the sands will blow where they blow.

T^T

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 6:21:02 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you dont understand, his version is shallow, I never do because I always look to the depths of an argument, if you are not able to connect the dots, it takes the appearance I am not within the argument when in fact I am.

LOL
Yes dear, whatever you say.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 6:05:00 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Or to ask the question differently, why didn't God create a pink padded universe as a "safe space" for his little snowflakes?

Two thoughts:

(a) If you substitute pearly gates for pink padding, isn't a"safe space" more or less what heaven's said to be?

(b) Given some of the incredible agonies and heartbreaks I've seen and heard among fellow hospital patients and their loved ones, a pink-padded safe spot sounds rather appealing.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 6:08:10 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bondageerone

WHY did he/she make;;;;

diseases, the Nazis, do not go back too far, it could all be b/s.

I don't know.

Through my medical misadventures the past few years, the question that's haunted me isn't "Why me?" (genes and ignoring symptoms) but "Why anybody?"

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to bondageerone)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 6:11:30 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I don't see much purpose in the desert but it might have one that even experts have not discovered yet. Of course we could irrigate it with seawater and in time is would become arable, maybe it is like land in reserve.

You've got that one backwards: the main reason the Sahara is no longer arable land is that some fuckwit irrigated it with salt water when the Romans were over farming it during the early iron age.



Incidentally, I do not dispute what you say. They just did it wrong.

T^T

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 6:54:32 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: privateservant

Yes there is a GOD and he is called DOG.


Oh shit...so we are not talking about good ol dave?
My bad carry on.

(in reply to privateservant)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 7:35:26 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How is it that an atheist or anybody for that matter could or would need to disprove the unproven ?

There are no facts or extrapolation of fact that any god exists, so no...there has been no 'proving' the existence of any god at all, in any way...at any time.





you first need to determine what 'existence' is before making such a statement. what is it?

For instance, Does your name exist?






Yea it does and we exist as we type, Like I agree with and think it was Shakespeare, 'I think...therefore I am.' In order to prove the existence of a god, one gets nowhere by questioning existing science.

The burden of proof is first and always on those suggesting...there is a god.


nope you gotta stay within the boundaries of the argument.

I asked you to state what 'existence' is to start, which carries the meaning of how you apply the word it preferably to this subject. You did not do that and until you do you do not have a bonafide argument for a subject such as this.


Oh yes, I do. Existence is the very fact that we are here discussing this, i.e., the state or fact of being. To pose the question in this blog proves we exist. To pose that because you believe in something that demonstrates no 'state of being' does not prove its existence.

The boundaries of the argument are the boundaries of our existence...the fact the we are here and now, in a state of being.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: IF THERE IS A GOD - 9/18/2016 8:57:10 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

An excerpt from one of my medical updates might be pertinent to the topic.


September 30, 2013 | The Patience of Job

Few of you will be surprised to read that I do not have the patience of Job. Neither, it turns out, did he.

In my life, the Book of Job has been something of a classic in the Mark Twain sense: a work I’ve read about but never troubled to actually read. That changed last night. I was feeling particularly Job-like. Weariness had consumed the bulk of yet another weekend, and my bowels’ increasingly maddening antics included moving without warning in the middle of a Wilson House tour. After frantically excusing myself, I left the guests standing in the President’s bedroom—a no-no, I’m sure—and tore up to the fourth floor bathroom. Only the knowledge that I had to go finish the tour kept me from melting down. Mercifully, the guests were very kind and don’t seem to have pocketed anything.

With that weighing on me, my thoughts turned to my litany of woes: the depression, the diabetes, the mobility issues that have harassed me all year, and of course the cancer. And second and third thoughts about my choice of surgical procedures. Out of that toxic brew emerged my first “prayer” in days or even weeks: “Why, O God, do you hate me?” A flood of tears followed. No surprise: They were days in coming. I found myself wanting to read William Safire’s provocatively titled reflection on Job: The First Dissident. But before that, I figured, I should really, finally wade into the primary source itself.

So I did. At about halfway through, I confess it’s a bit of a trudge. That’s partly because it’s essentially a play, and simply reading flattens its power. Also, the characters do go on a bit. Actually, a lot. There are three cycles of speeches that all pretty much say the same thing. Job insists that God has wronged him—an innocent man. Then the original Job’s comforters scold him, saying he must be guilty of some sin to be punished so brutally.

I took to Job immediately and adored his supreme impatience. He has the gall to bewail his birth—a shocking thought both then and now—lamenting that he wasn’t stillborn. And he has no plans to suffer in silence. “But I will not hold my peace,” he says, “I will speak out in the distress of my mind and complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11). Wow, I thought, this is a guy who gets it! There are times—we’ve all had them—when life truly sucks, and no rosy lens can disguise that.

I already knew the ending, so I didn’t feel bad about peeking ahead. To be honest, it’s a disappointment. God shows up and blasts Job, demanding to know if Job was there when God created the universe and chastising him for the effrontery of questioning the divine design. And then, I’m sorry to say, Job caves. “I have spoken of great things I have not understood…. Therefore I melt away; I repent in dust and ashes” (42:3,6). Ugh. God basically bullies Job into silence and never answers his perfectly valid points. What began as a tale of amazing honesty and power shrivels into the ancient Hebrew version of The Taming of the Shrew.

I haven’t yet read Safire’s reflections, but I did recall—and dig out—an interesting perspective from Bishop John Shelby Spong. In Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism, he cites the Book of Job as an example of “protest literature”—“stories that provided a counterpoint to a prevailing attitude.” That attitude was one we still encounter today: “If [people] were poor and afflicted, they deserved it. Likewise, if they were rich and healthy, they deserved it.” Including Job in the scriptural canon, Spong argues, was a way of spurring the community to pause and consider things from a different angle, to stop assuming God shared their mindset.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 40
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