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RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 9:25:33 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		Slave labour in the event that daesh have seized an area with oil reserves?

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 10:15:43 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		All I will say about profiling is to give A personal example of real life incidence that happened in my dribeway/front of my house.

My youngest son was stranded in Grand Rapids and accepted a ride home from a friend of a friend.

They get signalled to pull over just a half block from our house. So, they pull into my driveway.

Then the under cover police show up in thier unmarked black car and then as they hold my son and the black girl who gave him a ride home, and wait for the K9 unit to show up they proceed to ransack this poor girls vehicle. After nearly an hour of numerous police cars, drug sniffing German shepherds and nosey neighbors, they concede the car and occupants are drug free and legal.

The police chief tells me, "you should tell your son not to take rides with black girls in cars with tinted windows."

Seriously


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 10:30:35 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

To prevent things like this Trump says we need to use profiling. Source


Okay, so while the Conservatives are screaming about how liberals want to step all over the bill of rights, end some of our constitutional rights, we have Trump saying we need to start using profiling to deal with domestic terrorism.

So, forget "innocent until proven guilty" and substitute "guilty until proven innocent."

quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Well lets look at the Trump version:

quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause or the fact that you look Muslim which includes every turban wearing religion since they all look the same , supported by oath or affirmation just because you look Muslim, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized meaning anything that could link you to being Muslim.



Of course, once we go there, we can stretch it to cover anything the government deems as a danger to the US. In the sixties, it was the hippies, civil rights movement, etc.

Well, raise good ol Hoover from the dead, we need him to run the FBI again.
You have no basis for complaining that Trump wants to violate your fourth amendment rights when the NSA has already done that to everyone in America.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 10:49:02 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

To prevent things like this Trump says we need to use profiling. Source


Okay, so while the Conservatives are screaming about how liberals want to step all over the bill of rights, end some of our constitutional rights, we have Trump saying we need to start using profiling to deal with domestic terrorism.

So, forget "innocent until proven guilty" and substitute "guilty until proven innocent."

quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Well lets look at the Trump version:

quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause or the fact that you look Muslim which includes every turban wearing religion since they all look the same , supported by oath or affirmation just because you look Muslim, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized meaning anything that could link you to being Muslim.



Of course, once we go there, we can stretch it to cover anything the government deems as a danger to the US. In the sixties, it was the hippies, civil rights movement, etc.

Well, raise good ol Hoover from the dead, we need him to run the FBI again.
You have no basis for complaining that Trump wants to violate your fourth amendment rights when the NSA has already done that to everyone in America.




Huh?

I, among others, have been complaining about the NSA for years.

What I am complaining about is the simple fact that the GOP, who have been screaming that liberals want to take away our rights, have been pushing through laws, programs and regulations that have been doing just that since fucking Reagan if not longer.

Profiling is already a major problem in the US, and depending on the region of the country you happen to live in, the 'profiles' vary according to specific problems within that region.

And, as an American citizen, have every right to complain. It does not matter if it the NSA has been doing it for years, it is still wrong, and a direct violation of the paper these jackasses are sworn to protect.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 10:50:18 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Of course, the fact that every reason George gave to justify invading Iraq turned out to be a bold faced lie is beside the point.


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm

All the "Whereas" sections are bold faced lies? Really?

quote:

Nor does it matter that every fucking adviser with an ounce of common sense pointed out that no army that had ever invaded Afghanistan actually accomplished anything.


What army or armies had previously invaded Afghanistan, and what was/were the result/s?


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 10:52:44 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What army or armies had previously invaded Afghanistan, and what was/were the result/s?

Britain and Russia in recent times, and the results were not good.
Or was that one of them rhetorical questions?

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 12:52:14 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What army or armies had previously invaded Afghanistan, and what was/were the result/s?

Britain and Russia in recent times, and the results were not good.
Or was that one of them rhetorical questions?


The Russians didn't invade Afghanistan. They went into Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan government, to help suppress the rebels (that we were training, arming, and buying). After Russia decided they had spent enough blood and treasure to help the Afghan government, and the Afghan government was simply letting Russia take care of the problem, the Kremlin told them to fuck off and left.

The First Anglo-Afghan War: Ended with the British occupying Afghanistan.

The Second Anglo-Afghan War: Ended "after the British emerged victorious against the Afghan rebels and the Afghans agreed to let the British attain all of their geopolitical objectives from the Treaty of Gandamak." [Italics mine]

The Third Anglo-Afghan War: Ended "with an armistice on 8 August 1919.[3][4][5][6][7] According to British author Michael Barthorp, it was a minor tactical victory for the British because the Durand Line was reaffirmed as the political boundary between the Emirate of Afghanistan and British India and the Afghans agreed not to foment trouble on the British side. The Afghans were able to resume the right to conduct their own foreign affairs as a fully independent state."

So, the 3rd invasion was deemed a "tactical victory" by a British author (no bias, I'm sure), but also resulted in Afghanistan became a fully independent state (iow: won it's independence).

3 actual invasions, and 2 to 2-1/2 positive results for the invading forces.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 12:54:51 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		I wonder if a bunch of imbeciles from Pakistan walking in and taking over the country counts as an invasion as well?
Most of the Taliban (remember them?) were Pakistani rather than Afghans...

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 3:59:26 PM   
AtUrCervix


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Joined: 1/15/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What he really said was A LOT more inflammatory than that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzB7IsmOegE

He might not have thought that he was being racist, and of course nobody can deny that slaves were bred selectively, but when you wade into a massively complicated topic like this, with very little reading or knowledge on your side, you do end up saying stupid things and getting fired.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

There was a TV sportscaster fellow ("Jimmy The Greek") who....back in the early 80's (once he said this publicly) was eviscerated by the popular press and within weeks, fired by his broadcasting agency...(back then it was CBS/NBC or ABC) because he said something "crazy" (or something like this....it was a while ago)...."Black men are genetically predisposed to be great athletes....the evidence is in their disproportionate percentages in the NBA and NFL".

He was quickly excoriated...and subsequently....fired.




Ya know what...the whole world has gone PC mad...

Black people were not considered humans at that time....they were "property".....which then made owners of same (like seed crop) aware of what made their slaves more productive.

DOH!!!!

Ergo...breeding the best with the best.

And in fact...that is exactly what occurred.

And that is what he was....attempting to articulate....although....in a PC world....not entirely well accepted.

(You can HATE the messenger....but don't be so idiotic to discredit the message....or for that matter....more importantly....factual history).

That's what happened back then....hate it all you want.

This is just basic history.

Rewrite anything you want....it happened....exactly this way.


< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 9/20/2016 4:01:20 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 4:29:56 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		One of the main books on this topic is Gregory D. Smithers, Slave Breeding: Sex, Violence, and Memory in African American History. You could also try Jennifer L. Morgan's Laboring Women: Reproduction and Gender in New World Slavery, but it's drier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

of course nobody can deny that slaves were bred selectively,

Do you have any validation for that other than "it stands to reason"?
We do have letters by jefferson to the effect of urging his fellow slave owners to "invest in negros as their reproductive habits guarantee a minimum of 4% return on investment" but I have never, in my readings found any sound evidence of anyone engaging in a systematic program of "selective breeding".
If you have I would be most interested in studying the data.


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/20/2016 4:32:25 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Nuance, my friend, nuance. I don't hate the messenger and am not trying to rewrite anything. I actually said that there's no denying that slaves were selectively bred. My point, which apparently fell on deaf ears (so this is the last time I'll make it) is that the reality was a lot more complicated than Jimmy the Greek's pedestrian little mind could encompass. He was pretty good at picking football games (though not historically great at that either). He was not especially good at interpreting American history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What he really said was A LOT more inflammatory than that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzB7IsmOegE

He might not have thought that he was being racist, and of course nobody can deny that slaves were bred selectively, but when you wade into a massively complicated topic like this, with very little reading or knowledge on your side, you do end up saying stupid things and getting fired.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

There was a TV sportscaster fellow ("Jimmy The Greek") who....back in the early 80's (once he said this publicly) was eviscerated by the popular press and within weeks, fired by his broadcasting agency...(back then it was CBS/NBC or ABC) because he said something "crazy" (or something like this....it was a while ago)...."Black men are genetically predisposed to be great athletes....the evidence is in their disproportionate percentages in the NBA and NFL".

He was quickly excoriated...and subsequently....fired.




Ya know what...the whole world has gone PC mad...

Black people were not considered humans at that time....they were "property".....which then made owners of same (like seed crop) aware of what made their slaves more productive.

DOH!!!!

Ergo...breeding the best with the best.

And in fact...that is exactly what occurred.

And that is what he was....attempting to articulate....although....in a PC world....not entirely well accepted.

(You can HATE the messenger....but don't be so idiotic to discredit the message....or for that matter....more importantly....factual history).

That's what happened back then....hate it all you want.

This is just basic history.

Rewrite anything you want....it happened....exactly this way.



(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 6:17:03 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

One of the main books on this topic is Gregory D. Smithers, Slave Breeding: Sex, Violence, and Memory in African American History. You could also try Jennifer L. Morgan's Laboring Women: Reproduction and Gender in New World Slavery, but it's drier.

Thank you for your timely and curtious response.
I was able to access a pdf of the smithers book on the computer at the library.
The narative is clear that there was a breeding program. This is well documented in many sources.
My query was more directed to the Jimmy the greek comment as to the selective breeding for genetic results. I have not been able to locate a pdf of the morgan book but the smithers book indicates only the selection of women on the bassis of gross production. I found no mention of any "selective" breeding other than culling the sick, lame, lazy, blind, cripppled, and crazy. Were you able to find any referencing breeding for size,conformation,docility etc?

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 11:11:42 AM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

"I am in favor of profiling people if that will protect our country from danger.
Specifically, I am in favor of profiling people with narcissistic personality disorder
and preventing them from becoming President."

-- Andy Borowitz

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 4:02:05 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Trump wants to wipe his ass with the Constitution. What else is new?
This is old news that his White Trash supporters ignore.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 6:14:31 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

"I am in favor of profiling people if that will protect our country from danger.
Specifically, I am in favor of profiling people with narcissistic personality disorder
and preventing them from becoming President."

-- Andy Borowitz

Or Senators or congressmen etc.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 6:19:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		"Profiling" is very necessary. Even the FBI has a dept of profiling.
If you're looking for IRA terrorists you'd be looking for white guys with names like Sean, Liam and Rory, correct?
You wouldn't be looking for Mexicans or Africans would you?

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 6:21:52 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Then if they had half a brain they'd start to recruit Mexicans and African mercenaries, just to exploit your very shortsighted law-enforcement strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"Profiling" is very necessary. Even the FBI has a dept of profiling.
If you're looking for IRA terrorists you'd be looking for white guys with names like Sean, Liam and Rory, correct?
You wouldn't be looking for Mexicans or Africans would you?


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/22/2016 8:50:26 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


Ya know what...the whole world has gone PC mad...

Black people were not considered humans at that time....they were "property".....which then made owners of same (like seed crop) aware of what made their slaves more productive.

DOH!!!!

One has to wonder just how deep does your stupidity go. No one considered blacks to be not human.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/22/2016 8:56:26 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/23/2016 10:17:55 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		@ Thompson, people did and some still do consider black people "less than human".

It wasn't all that long ago, when I still lived in Louisiana, that I would see signs posted along the waterways (while out fishing) warning "darkies" that they would be shot of caught outside after dark.

There were areas where the difference of a couple blocks was like being a foreigner in a hostile country because the racial tension was so palpable.

I recall hearing how white people talked about blacks in derogatory ways.

The truth is, individual people are generally and more often than not good. Groups of people, always seen to find a way to form the Us vs Them groupings and rationalize ways to justify "dehumanizing" or oppressing them.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Trump has the solution... - 9/23/2016 10:32:09 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

@ Thompson, people did and some still do consider black people "less than human".

I would agree that some people are stupid enough to believe that blacks are not human.
The fact remains that it was never illegal to kill your livestock but it has always been illegal to murder a black person even one that you owned. I am not unaware of the differences in the penalities for murdering a white person as opposed to murdering a black person.
I used to love in west new orleans (houston) in the early 50's so I am quite aware of what went on there.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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