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Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatism’... - 9/29/2016 3:23:20 PM   
MrRodgers


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That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.

Highlites:

Trump “wouldn't approve” Ford manufacturing cars in Mexico. He would create a federal police force to deport 450,000 illegal immigrants a month, including 6.4 percent of America’s workforce in two years. Yet the 25 million jobs he promises to create would require more than doubling the current rate of legal immigration to fill them, according to economist Mark Zandi.

Of the Supreme Court’s 2005 Kelo decision diluting property rights by vastly expanding government’s powers of eminent domain, Trump says, “I happen to agree with it 100 percent.” Even Bernie Sanders rejects Kelo.

Trump is as parsimonious with specifics regarding health care (“Plans you don’t even know about will be devised because we’re going to come up with plans — health-care plans — that will be so good”) as regarding foreign policy (“I would get China, and I would say, ‘Get in [North Korea], and straighten it out.’ ”).

“Charismatic authority,” wrote Max Weber in 1915, seven years before Mussolini’s march on Rome, causes the governed to submit “because of their belief in the extraordinary quality of the specific person . . . . Charismatic rule thus rests upon the belief in magical powers, revelations and hero worship.” A demagogue’s success requires a receptive demos, and Trump’s ascendancy reflects progressivism’s success in changing America’s social norms and national character by de-stigmatizing dependency.

(What Will leaves out of course is the right's success in changing business norms by de-stigmatizing corruption and greed. Notice wall street's going broke by highly leveraging the buying and selling of shit-paper and while simultaneously financially hedging against the very 'products' they sold their own customers and even now still...Wells Fargo swooping depositors up into their fraudulent, profit-taking dragnet. Plus no to mention of the right's de-stigmatizing corporate manslaughter, it being just ok to reduce costs even if that very reduction 'costs' 11 people their lives)

When Ferdinand VII regained Spain’s throne in 1813, he vowed to end “the disastrous mania of thinking.” Trump is America’s Ferdinand.

The American project was to construct a constitutional regime whose institutional architecture would guarantee the limited government implied by the Founders’ philosophy: Government is instituted to “secure” (the Declaration of Independence) preexisting natural rights. Today, however, neither the executive nor legislative branches takes this seriously, the judiciary has forsworn enforcing it, and neither political party represents it because no substantial constituency supports it.

Will would do well to let us know but we won't read it from even him, just when since Eisenhower, the republicans ('conservatism') have ever actually practiced their 'limited' govt. rhetorical creed.

What a sorry state of affairs modern American conservatism has come to be.

HERE

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 3:39:25 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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They also seem to have become enamored of a conspiracist mindset. They seem to think that the continual progressive nature of society (i.e becoming accepting of more and more things) is some sort of "liberal" plot, rather than an historical process that has been ongoing for centuries. Yeah it is somewhat cyclical in that society goes through more conservative phases and more progressive phases, but the over all trend is one of the advancement of progressive ideals.

This is not the result of some sort of plot or some nefarious evil media influence, but rather the result of the nearly universal desire of humanity to generally improve shit.

One of the big problems of modern American conservatism is that it is not so much conservative as reactionary, what's more the Republican party, the putative "conservative" party is anything but, it is a unabashedly corporationistist party, the party of the plutocrats. that and in their quest for electoral success they have appealed to some very ugly and angry segments of the electorate.


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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 3:54:47 PM   
WickedsDesire


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I am you are not

You are an American man arguing sophisms - for that is you


Readers can decide and I was banned of fetife 99.9% of the time uttering that with an actual reality and offend all with none = zero batches on here x 12 years




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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 4:00:21 PM   
PeonForHer


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It's the same this side of the pond, Mr R. The establishment right wing nodded, winked and teased the looney right fringe for decades, suggesting that it would give the racists, misogynists and general thick right wing arses what they wanted, if only they were elected into power. But the promises never came true. But that didn't matter to the Conservative party, because it knew that the thick right wing clods (the TRWCs) had no choice other than them.

But then along came UKIP and Nigel Farage. He actually *did* look like he was going to give them *exactly* what they wanted. No messing about.

Trump has done the same thing, your side of the pond. However, because everything in the USA is bigger than it is here in the UK, the outcome is bigger, too.

The American right wing doesn't know how to look good by playing the card of 'Hey, we're right wing, but not nasty extreme right wing, like him'. It's never really had to do it before. It has had no proper practice at that tactic.

If Trump wins this election, it'll have to fall in line with Trump's cretinous outlook, which will be painful. If he doesn't, it will have to big up its 'moderateness', which it's never had any practice at doing.

However you look at it, the Right in US politics is fucked.

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 4:13:13 PM   
WickedsDesire


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They call me lucid and verified..any one else or utter pish x 12 years or is it 13
And they ban you from fetlife for that ad the powers arse sprayn mayhem

Does the problem lie with me or everyone else

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 5:27:02 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.


It's not a failure of conservatism by any stretch. Conservatism isn't decaying. People are being swayed by the offers of "free" stuff by today's liberals.

Trump's ascendancy is a failure of.... the GOP. The GOP has failed to stand up for their party planks. They have taken the same stance that the Whigs took (that ended up with the breakup of the Whigs and creation of the GOP, oddly enough).


_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 8:13:51 PM   
Lordandmaster


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To the extent that his campaign promises are coherent and believable, Trump is actually promising more "free stuff" than any other Republican in recent memory. That's why he is doing so well, and that's why his rise reflects the decay of American conservatism.

In the recent good old days, conservatism was all about reducing taxes, reducing spending, reducing benefits, making people fend for themselves instead of relying on government to help them out. Fine--I always thought that was shortsighted (and betrayed every time some right-leaning state like Alaska would appeal for federal disaster aid), but at least there was a consistent theme of rugged individualism.

Trump followers today are all about how immigrants are cutting ahead of them in line. I deserve my handouts, and all these damned Mexicans are draining the coffers before I get my share!

THAT is the decline of American conservatism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.


It's not a failure of conservatism by any stretch. Conservatism isn't decaying. People are being swayed by the offers of "free" stuff by today's liberals.

Trump's ascendancy is a failure of.... the GOP. The GOP has failed to stand up for their party planks. They have taken the same stance that the Whigs took (that ended up with the breakup of the Whigs and creation of the GOP, oddly enough).


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/29/2016 8:14:32 PM >

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 8:51:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.


It's not a failure of conservatism by any stretch. Conservatism isn't decaying. People are being swayed by the offers of "free" stuff by today's liberals.

Trump's ascendancy is a failure of.... the GOP. The GOP has failed to stand up for their party planks. They have taken the same stance that the Whigs took (that ended up with the breakup of the Whigs and creation of the GOP, oddly enough).


But where is there conservatism being exercised in politics ? Do I need more than two hands to count the real conservatives in power in DC ? NO !!

Conservatism has become the rhetorical refuse of the GOP rendered meaningless by the right's policies and practices. Reagan started it all downhill when politics became all about how much better off I was due to self interest of the individual overriding the interest of the country.

Then it was no repub should ever 'diss' another repub transforming the goal to gaining power over the strict adherence to ideology and its benefit for the country. That is also when we ALL became Keynesians and the right turned to pandering for moneyed interests followed by a complete violation of conservatism in foreign affairs.

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 9:03:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
To the extent that his campaign promises are coherent and believable, Trump is actually promising more "free stuff" than any other Republican in recent memory. That's why he is doing so well, and that's why his rise reflects the decay of American conservatism.
In the recent good old days, conservatism was all about reducing taxes, reducing spending, reducing benefits, making people fend for themselves instead of relying on government to help them out. Fine--I always thought that was shortsighted (and betrayed every time some right-leaning state like Alaska would appeal for federal disaster aid), but at least there was a consistent theme of rugged individualism.
Trump followers today are all about how immigrants are cutting ahead of them in line. I deserve my handouts, and all these damned Mexicans are draining the coffers before I get my share!
THAT is the decline of American conservatism.


Thanks for playing, but no. Trump isn't running on conservative values by any stretch. Conservatism hasn't changed. What has changed is the GOP's adherence to it's party planks. It's not really happening any more.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 9:09:48 PM   
WickedsDesire


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wicked are you implying there are no women here at all and lesser numbers that would feel the thrash of your loins evoking 47.5 orgasms upon their hunger, or creatures of true wretch who lack a modicum of reality to casually glimpse the chasm of your mind

Absolutely
Zero, and I always round up

Are you about to get out of hand at those who proclaim and offer up, on their best day, the promise of a rotten shag and fuk all reakity

Will you rip the clothes of the next person who comes through you door no one has entered this year an run hr for all of makind

Will you dismantle those with no reality who talk heinous waffle yep

will all people of no reality attack thy - listen to their roar - trust me on his and et their slobber quench you

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 9:09:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.

It's not a failure of conservatism by any stretch. Conservatism isn't decaying. People are being swayed by the offers of "free" stuff by today's liberals.
Trump's ascendancy is a failure of.... the GOP. The GOP has failed to stand up for their party planks. They have taken the same stance that the Whigs took (that ended up with the breakup of the Whigs and creation of the GOP, oddly enough).

But where is there conservatism being exercised in politics ? Do I need more than two hands to count the real conservatives in power in DC ? NO !!
Conservatism has become the rhetorical refuse of the GOP rendered meaningless by the right's policies and practices. Reagan started it all downhill when politics became all about how much better off I was due to self interest of the individual overriding the interest of the country.
Then it was no repub should ever 'diss' another repub transforming the goal to gaining power over the strict adherence to ideology and its benefit for the country. That is also when we ALL became Keynesians and the right turned to pandering for moneyed interests followed by a complete violation of conservatism in foreign affairs.


LMMFAO!! Of course you won't find many real conservatives in DC. That isn't because conservatism has changed, though. It's the people who claim to stand for conservatism aren't really conservatives.

If you go to a buffet and take the lid off the chicken noodle soup tureen, but see beef vegetable soup, is it because chicken noodle soup has changed, or is it simply not chicken noodle soup?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 9:34:58 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Do I need more than two hands to count the real conservatives in power in DC ?

Define "real conservative"

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/29/2016 9:51:22 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Oh oh oh I forgot fetlife has a few I am hideous monster of monstrous aspect threads and enablers (like all forum owners) and if they injected me with a handsome doze of anthrax and I went daft of the head I would not visit them with my cock handsome of girth but I would pray the pox vists them with fury…… I feel it is for the best


I plan to shit a turd of absolute pain and it will best the creature ,of utter wretch, called trump, and have more reality than almost all contributors on here, or that other place..i give them me (perhaps the fault lies with me and not almost everyone else of spasm stool arse screetcing mayhem or to be honest almost all of you behold its screaming turd glory

Back to reality, known as lesser than the above, on here or that other place, that require their cavity streeetched modus opernadi Sherman tank becuase I feel, deep within my loins, all bints truly desire this and stole all wickeds pictures an infact a hot lesbian girl in my mental head

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 12:12:47 AM   
Lordandmaster


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What better proof that conservatism has failed than that a conservative can't get the Republican Presidential nomination anymore? You just made my point for me.

But ... over and out, because you're kinda snarky, and that's neither necessary nor pleasant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Thanks for playing, but no. Trump isn't running on conservative values by any stretch. Conservatism hasn't changed. What has changed is the GOP's adherence to it's party planks. It's not really happening any more.


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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 12:47:56 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you go to a buffet and take the lid off the chicken noodle soup tureen, but see beef vegetable soup, is it because chicken noodle soup has changed, or is it simply not chicken noodle soup?



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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 3:56:19 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Do I need more than two hands to count the real conservatives in power in DC ?

Define "real conservative"


ive got an article on my laptop that attempts to answer that question. hopefully i'll remember later today to pull it off and bring it over.

in the meantime, here are a couple of things---ive not even looked at this yet, but here's a title some people talking in this thread might want to explore:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/24/is-donald-trump-conservative-heres-the-rundown/

and this seems like a good place to put this:

"I Am Never Going To Be a Part of Your Sick Liberal Worldview"

quote:

I am not a citizen of the world. I am not going to be part of your collective. I don’t respect the United Nations, international law or think any other culture compares favorably to our own. Don’t get me wrong: I respect the Brits, the Israelis, the Aussies and a few other nations that have built great legacies their children can be proud of, but they’re not America. We’re better than the rest of the world…or we used to be.

It doesn’t matter how many Americans are out of work or how many immigrants end up on welfare; we keep looking for ways to raise the level of immigration. It’s like a man who is drowning to death trying to find a way to get deeper underwater. Now, we spend most of our time trying to be more like nations that are poorer, weaker and less moral than we are while we encourage people who move here from inferior nations to hold onto their backward cultures.

When you say the culture of a nation like Mexico or Syria is inferior to the United States, that’s not being mean; it’s just a statement of fact. When you say Islam is a more primitive and violent religion than Christianity, that’s not an opinion; that’s a fact that everyone with eyes, ears and a brain already knows but doesn’t want to say out loud.

People don’t want to tell the truth because we live in a politically correct world full of liberal losers who are rewriting the rule books to benefit themselves.

Being part of the “elite” now has more to do with going to the right school and adhering to the right politically correct beliefs than it does with merit. We have people running government agencies who would never be able to cut it as a night shift manager at Denny’s.

“Compassion” now has nothing to do with actual compassion. Missionaries, pastors and people who toil endlessly helping the homeless or poor families aren’t given as much credit as pundits calling for new big government legislation or even morons tweeting how much they care about some “famous” lion they never heard of before getting shot.

Middle class Americans who play by the rules are treated as piggy banks for the lazy, ignorant and unskilled. Their concerns are ignored by a lawless government they live in fear of offending. Even “winning” a case against the EPA or some zoning board financed by their own tax dollars can be expensive and take years. Any society where the citizens fear the government instead of the government fearing the citizens is an oppressive society, no matter how loudly the politicians proclaim their love of freedom.

I don’t respect liberals who seem to be obsessed with impressing people with how “kind” and “sensitive” they are by taking up the latest trendy cause that no one really cares about. It’s cheap and easy to natter on about “gay rights,” “Islamophobia,” “racism” or talk about how much “guns” worry you. The more useless you actually are to society and the less you accomplish, the easier it is to pretend that smearing other people in the name of fighting some “ism” is a courageous, noteworthy endeavor, as opposed to worthless prattling designed to make yourself look good to other simpletons.

If only….if only the people going on about gay rights had to raise their kids next to a gay bathhouse in San Francisco. If only the white liberals who think guns are terrible and who believe every problem black Americans have is caused by racism had to move to inner city Chicago. If only the people who decry any attempt at holding back radical Islam as “Islamophobia” had to live somewhere like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for a year.

It’s always some over-protected, coddled cretin who thinks he’s both a misunderstood genius and a victim complaining about the people who are working hard, paying their own way, who just want to be left alone to live their lives without interference.

Maybe it’s selfish, but I’d love to see Texas secede from the United States so those of us with our heads screwed on right would have a place to go after liberals ruin this country. The United States is on that same highway to Hell as the Greeks, Romans and Brits. Because of liberalism, Americans will one day look back at a once great nation, despair at how far they’ve fallen and know in their souls that our civilization will never reach those storied heights again. If liberals weren’t so ignorant, selfish and self-absorbed, they’d be down on their knees apologizing for what they’re doing to future generations in our country.


http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2016/07/02/i-am-never-going-to-be-a-part-of-your-sick-liberal-worldview-n2186492

if there is anything that is a failure, or that CAUSES decay, one only needs to look around the world and throughout history to see that its leftie principles and practices.

for the record, my rough view is that trump's "ascendency" (though I cringe at the veracity of that term relative to him) is more due to Obama's past 8 yrs and, to a large extent, the failure of republicans to either reign him in, or as desi has suggested, to remain true to their party platform.



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 9/30/2016 4:03:59 AM >

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 4:35:23 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That 'decay' has been going on for some time now. As I've written, liberalism's ascendancy was created by conservatism's failures. Now that failure has produced Trump.


It's not a failure of conservatism by any stretch. Conservatism isn't decaying. People are being swayed by the offers of "free" stuff by today's liberals.

Trump's ascendancy is a failure of.... the GOP. The GOP has failed to stand up for their party planks. They have taken the same stance that the Whigs took (that ended up with the breakup of the Whigs and creation of the GOP, oddly enough).




I think that's part of it along with a severe distrust of anything the left says or does.

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 4:58:02 AM   
Lucylastic


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Yes Bounty cos that worked so well for Kathy Miller and her job didnt it.
If you think that there was no racism before Obama? you are blind deaf and well ignorant.
Own Trump, he is all yours.....savour his presidency, every lying cheating scamming scummy thing that comes out of his mouth.
embrace him, he is the GOP come to full term.
Congrats.



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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 5:29:46 AM   
WhoreMods


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FR:
I'm surprised that people are talking like the circus peanut's appealing to the lowest common denominator in Republican "conservatism"* is some sort of new development. Isn't all of the ridiculous hysterical drivel the tiny-handed shitweasel has spent his campaign spouting largely comprised of tea party talking points and the nonsense elected politicians have been expected to apologise to Rush Limpdick for not namechecking often enough?
In the light of that, the fact that there are "conservatives" complaining that it's all the liberals' fault, rather than something the American right has done to itself is hilarious.

*(Whether or not somebody who wants a return to the golden age of robber barons and a permanent underclass who know their place and are grateful to be shat on by the important people can be described as a conservative rather than wannabe feudalist is a whole other issue, of course.)

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RE: Donald Trump’s rise reflects American conservatis... - 9/30/2016 5:31:53 AM   
Termyn8or


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FR

There are no conservatives in government.

A conservative sees a good society, though not perfect, wants to conserve the good parts of it.

A conservative wants to conserve money, not waste it.

And it is not that a conservative couldn't get the republican nomination, it's that a republican couldn't get i t. Trump is really not that conservative. But who is ? Most republicans want us in many countries taking their oil, that is fucking welfare and it is not even for the poor.

One thing though, most conservatives know math. Maybe not Trump but then again, he is not really conservative.

What got him the nomination is the hope for change because he is ot owned by the banks and oil companies like so many Presidents, and that might just put him in the big chair. Go out to the bars and those greasy spoon restaurants that have where you can eat at the counter and talk to people.

You will find that more than anything they are sick of the status quo. They can all see Trump's gaffs but many of them just don't care. Add that to what they think of Clinton, which is lower than snake shit, this gives Trump a real chance.

Go ahead and argue with me. Tell me how Clinton is a show in, and you'll just impel more people to go vote for Trump who may have say home thinking he was a shoe in. Please keep saying it because the last thing we need is that autistic bitch having anything to do with government.

As bad as Trump is, Clinton is worse. "If I am elected President we will attack Iran". Yes she said within ten years after that but that means she intends to antagonize them into doing something, so that we have to, because she can only be President in ten years by losing the second term.. Of course I am pretty sure that if elected she will not get a second term. In fact in ten years both of them will be too old anyway.

But the title of this should be "The Rise Of Donald Trump Reflects On Republican's Decay". They are not conservatives and never were since the day they were born. There are no conservatives.

T^T

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