There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 2:57:24 PM)

With all the bullshit from people in other countries basically condemning and criticizing the US for every damn thing from guns, to cops to taxes, to basic laws, I find myself agreeing with Trumps isolationist ideas.

Because when US aid is needed by these same countries, be it disaster relief or military equipment, they are all kiss ass.

We should pull our troops out of Europe, the middle east, Asia and every where else, bring em home, and let the rest of the world rip its guts out.

Seal the borders, North Korea's border system works just as well to keep people in as it does to keep people out, so mine the fuck out of the borders, patrol the borders with armed troops in armored vehicles with shoot to kill orders.

Boat loads of refugees get turned to shark bait.

Foreign flagged fishing vessels in US waters are confiscated, and crews sent to prison for 50 years.

Pull out of NATO and the UN and tell Putin if he wants Europe to take it, and if the European countries want us to help stop em, $1 million per soldier per day, with a minimum of one year paid in gold in advance.



Real0ne -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 3:06:31 PM)

isolationist?

the us was bought and paid for by foreign interests.

another woden nickel for you.



RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 3:29:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With all the bullshit from people in other countries basically condemning and criticizing the US for every damn thing from guns, to cops to taxes, to basic laws, I find myself agreeing with Trumps isolationist ideas.

Because when US aid is needed by these same countries, be it disaster relief or military equipment, they are all kiss ass.

We should pull our troops out of Europe, the middle east, Asia and every where else, bring em home, and let the rest of the world rip its guts out.

Seal the borders, North Korea's border system works just as well to keep people in as it does to keep people out, so mine the fuck out of the borders, patrol the borders with armed troops in armored vehicles with shoot to kill orders.

Boat loads of refugees get turned to shark bait.

Foreign flagged fishing vessels in US waters are confiscated, and crews sent to prison for 50 years.

Pull out of NATO and the UN and tell Putin if he wants Europe to take it, and if the European countries want us to help stop em, $1 million per soldier per day, with a minimum of one year paid in gold in advance.

I don't know if I agree with isolationism but I think we've reached a point where it's fair to ask some of our allies if we're actually friends or not. I'm not asking for thanks but how many Americans have died in Europe and other places because those people couldn't get their own issues under control only to insult us later on? If you really don't want us there then just say so. We'll gladly leave.




PeonForHer -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 4:55:41 PM)

Not a chance. The USA *could* isolate itself, were it not so greedy for the world's resources - particularly oil. I'm afraid that Americans can have their opulent lifestyle only at the expense of continuing to arselick various countries (including those that have the most despicable regimes, like Saudi Arabia) across the world.



vincentML -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 5:10:00 PM)

quote:

Seal the borders, North Korea's border system works just as well to keep people in as it does to keep people out,


North Korea's borders are somewhat porous. Check it out.

quote:

if the European countries want us to help stop em, $1 million per soldier per day, with a minimum of one year paid in gold in advance.


My grandfather had a fish and chicken market. Guy came by one day and told him how much he would have to pay for "protection."



Awareness -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:06:18 PM)

Jeff the problem with your quaintly naive view is that you seem to think the USA is doing the rest of the world a favour.

It is not. The USA's interaction with the rest of the world - indeed, its entire foreign policy - is based upon self-interest. And if your response to foreigners'
criticism of domestic issues is to assert that the USA should abandon foreign policy and sulk like a child on the world stage, then it's no surprise you agree with Trump. He has absolutely no fucking idea what he's talking about and you...... well, I think you can see where this is going.



Lordandmaster -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:08:07 PM)

That was true 10-20 years ago, but not anymore. It won't be long before the U.S. is no longer a net importer of oil. The inevitable consequence is that we'll be less and less involved in the Middle East (as well as the rest of the world's hot spots). I'm not pretending that Trump has thought this through, since I don't believe he has thought ANYTHING through, but in this case he has stumbled on a trend that will only strengthen over time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Not a chance. The USA *could* isolate itself, were it not so greedy for the world's resources - particularly oil. I'm afraid that Americans can have their opulent lifestyle only at the expense of continuing to arselick various countries (including those that have the most despicable regimes, like Saudi Arabia) across the world.




RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:11:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Not a chance. The USA *could* isolate itself, were it not so greedy for the world's resources - particularly oil. I'm afraid that Americans can have their opulent lifestyle only at the expense of continuing to arselick various countries (including those that have the most despicable regimes, like Saudi Arabia) across the world.

By the way, according to this source, the top 3 imports for the US are finished goods, NOT raw resources.

1. Electronics
2. Machinery
3. Vehicles

Oil is number 4. And just so you know...

In 2015, about 24% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries, the lowest level since 1970

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6

The next 3 items are also finished products...

5. Pharmaceuticals
6. Medical, technical equipment
7. Furniture

You have to get to items 8 & 9 for more raw resources...

8. Gems
9. Vegetable products

And finally...

10. Plastics

So, out of the top 10 imports for the US, only 3 might actually be considered raw resources. And I'm quite sure that nobody in your country is making a single dime from our imports so please feel free to go to bed feeling all warm and fuzzy about yourself.



epiphiny43 -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:11:29 PM)

Dumb as a fence post (Or Trump) thread. Ask any educated US military officer or Pentagon wonk. The US loses it's ability to support 20 and 21st century tech in a couple of years if not months from lack if essential materials and resources. Google the list of vital industrial materials and substances not to be found anywhere in North America. China or Russia soon has 'walkin, take over' capabilities as our spare parts and new weapons and support material fabrication cease to meet daily tactical needs. We probably would lose a shooting war now from depletion of smart weapons being used up in the Mid-East and not adequately replaced.
At least as uninformed as to just how globalized the US economy is, both for markets and essential raw materials. Got a rubber plantation in Your county? Not here either. Google up a list of materials in any smart phone. Look were these come from.
We can't close borders to others without reciprocal actions. Our industrial agriculture segment is supporting the rest of the economy. It's exports pay for our military and social safety net.
Paranoia and ignorance of the actual details of our NATO and SEATO financial details come from lapping up Faux News provocations to the unwashed masses of angry disempowered white males. Try using credible media sources or published details of our true international relations. The US may pay more of the bills, but that's part of the cost of setting the agendas for the alliances. If our allies really didn't want us there, our bases would close tomorrow. What some idiot can spew get a slightly smarter reporter to send to 'news' sources with zero integrity is hardly the attitude of important decision makers world wide. European fringe clowns no more represent the values and intentions of whole countries than the Survivalists represent Inside the Beltway decision makers' opinions and values.
Stop being part of the knee jerk reaction to random provocations by media and individuals seeking attention and ad revenueviewership no matter how departed from reality their message.

Seriously, you Are smarter than this. I've seen evidence. Think through the consequences of impulsive 'feel good' actions. Mimicking Trump's disconnect between mouth and brain gets us nowhere.



MrRodgers -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:13:48 PM)

Kinkroids, you just don't get it yet. The world is destined for ONE govt., the achievement of which requires...the long game. The many steps required for [it] is a US military or its mercenaries...all over the world.

What is necessary is fear. Since WWII that fear divided the world into two camps, Soviet socialist imperialism vs western capitalist imperialism. The latter won and of course, rather than disarm, the world needed...a new fear.

Now the west has inaugurated fear of Islamic (and now domestic) terrorism. Soviet socialism was never going to win over the west with its armies but [it] had nukes. Islam would likewise never win over with its armies but they'll send in the newly dogmatic fool who actually believes he will be rewarded if he dies in martyrdom...by suicide bombing.

This new fear...never ends. Thus becomes the geopolitical vehicle for the marshaling of forces to a worldwide regime to 'protect' the people from terrorism.

The only questions that really remain are...how soon the world falls prey to a one world fascism and will the people ever recognize on that path when govt....is the new terrorist.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:14:31 PM)

Kipling wrote a poem about paying for 'protection' many years ago Vincent............check out 'Danegeld'*smile*. It's as significant now as it was when he wrote and as it was in the time that he wrote about.



RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:36:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Jeff the problem with your quaintly naive view is that you seem to think the USA is doing the rest of the world a favour.

It is not. The USA's interaction with the rest of the world - indeed, its entire foreign policy - is based upon self-interest. And if your response to foreigners'
criticism of domestic issues is to assert that the USA should abandon foreign policy and sulk like a child on the world stage, then it's no surprise you agree with Trump. He has absolutely no fucking idea what he's talking about and you...... well, I think you can see where this is going.

So what if we have self-interests? What country doesn't? Are you saying that because of our self-interests that nobody else has gotten a benefit? We haven't helped any other country develop at all?



epiphiny43 -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:40:05 PM)

What serves for paranoia is also the reality that the planet is too populated and interrelated to survive much longer at any level above us eating each other if there Isn't an international coordination of many factors ecologically, politically and economically. Currently the Ocean is supplying 1/3 of the protein the planet is eating. Every fisheries I can think of outside Australia is dying or in trouble. Factory ships and unregulated poaching by major players are killing the food supply of local economies everywhere. The total food take is declining if fish farming isn't included. Most fish farming is damaging natural fish takes more and more daily, and the essential issues of fish farming are fast limiting that resource as it ruins natural food cycles and kills itself with negative feedback essential the crowding of fish seeking economies of scale.
The planet easily feeds everyone (but barely) now, if there was adequate distribution. Which has No profit built in. Profit comes basically from artificially arranged shortages and exorbitant markups. This always means some go hungry, and with any system disturbance, people starve. Whole sectors of the food supply and urban complexes are well understood to be both unsustainable, and deeply damaging to system carrying capacity even if no new people were born. If all this isn't rationalized as WORLD WIDE SYSTEMS, urban civilization on planet Earth has a sunset clause. Well within the lifetimes of people reading this. A few of the lucky and the wealthy will survive almost any catastrophe. In a way, the sooner the better as stopping the madness has to happen to keep Climate Change and depletion of vital aspects of the ecology from making our present life anything more than a memory. Potable fresh water, (talk to your local coal mine entrepreneur where to get that if their plans continue killing forests everywhere), fertile soil, clean air (90% of the planet is now exposed to dangerously polluted air, at least part of the time) and food capable of supporting a thriving human body may be as rare as a politician with ideals and credibility.
Much of Brexit is anger at the imposition of necessary social and ecological rules Europe wide that gore some idiot's ox who can't see any bigger picture than his annual financial plans. That larger scale systemic failures to address currently growing problems are a far bigger threat to almost everyone's future escapes these Cauvinist maroons. Nationalism is just the latest of the many destructive tribalisms to afflict Humanity. We barely scrapped by vaporizing ourselves with the Nuclear Option during the Cold War. Putin is rebuilding all these values and structures for internal Kleptocracy goals. The many religious clowns of many faiths aren't far behind. Doesn't matter who carries the banner, We Do Better Together than fighting each other. Ask any Original Nations historian what he'd love to have a time machine to say to his forefathers in the 1600s and 1700s. To the extent we allow ourselves to be separated from the others on the planet, the more we are exploited by the unscrupulous and irrational who benefit by borders and barriers.



RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 6:51:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The only questions that really remain are...how soon the world falls prey to a one world fascism and will the people ever recognize on that path when govt....is the new terrorist.

So vote for Hillary? Yeah...no thanks.



jlf1961 -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 7:05:06 PM)

I did not so not to import, I did say, get our asses out of other countries.

At the height of the Isolationist movement between the world wars, the US was still a part of the world market, just we did not have such a major portion of our troops over seas.

I also said, stay out of other people's business, and unless there is a shit ton of money for us to get involved, keep out of the shit other countries get into.

Our constant involvement in the middle east since WW1 has made us a target, and lets face it, we advise Israel not to do something, they go ahead and do it anyway and piss even more folks off, and since we do nothing more that scold them, we get shit for it.




Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 7:06:33 PM)

I agree with you 100% JLF1961.




Lucylastic -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 7:43:03 PM)

I thought I was in polls and random stupidity



RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 7:50:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I thought I was in polls and random stupidity


Well, you do live in the UK, right? [:)]
(Relax...just joking)



Lucylastic -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 8:00:03 PM)

nope I dont
but I am english, born and bred, but now I live in canada.
:) joke accepted.
But the facts presented above is not based in reality.

Ps how much oil does canada export to the US.
Trump wants the pipeline, trump wants the oil, he cannot just disintegrate NAFTA
He certainly wont build a wall.
WHile he CAN get out of nafta (the president can do it alone) BUT many of the "finer points" have to be agreed to by congress.



RottenJohnny -> RE: There is one thing I agree with Trump on.... (10/1/2016 8:26:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
nope I dont
but I am english, born and bred, but now I live in canada.
:) joke accepted.

Correction accepted. :)


quote:


But the facts presented above is not based in reality.

How so?


quote:


Ps how much oil does canada export to the US.
Trump wants the pipeline, trump wants the oil...

And? I don't see a problem with that. Our population is over 300 million. We're going to have to import some oil. According to the link I provided above, 40% of our imported oil comes from Canada (#1). Only 11% comes from Saudi Arabia (where we supposedly do a lot of "arselicking"). I'd gladly trade their oil for yours if everyone would stop acting like we're just a bunch of fucking thieves.


quote:


he cannot just disintegrate NAFTA
He certainly wont build a wall.
WHile he CAN get out of nafta (the president can do it alone) BUT many of the "finer points" have to be agreed to by congress.

He didn't say he was going to dump NAFTA, or any other trade deal that I'm aware of. As I understand it, he just wants to renegotiate the terms. And personally, I don't think he'll need to build a wall if he improves the immigration process and gets the border patrol some more help. But...we'll see. Hillary sure as fuck isn't going to do anything about it.




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