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RE: Apologising to Subby - 7/23/2006 4:47:22 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Like most everyone else, I agree that you should appologize when you screw up.  In my book a dominant should be responsible, part of that is taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences of those actions.  So if things go wrong, despite my best efforts, I still take responsibility for that.

I would also add that if someone I care about feels I hurt them, even if I think I didn't, I'll take it serious enough to talk with them about it.   That doesn't mean an automatic appology, but the fact that someone I care about is upset with me is serious enough to me that I'll listen and find out what has happened and why they feel that way.  Now if after talking with them I think they're being unreasonable, then that's just tough.  But sometimes the things we do affect others in ways we don't realize, and its good to keep an open ear to that.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Master96)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Apologising to Subby - 7/23/2006 5:17:59 PM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

An interesting thread. Mind if I throw in an intellectual twist?

I'm not going to do the 'me too' thing. Stating the obvious will not contribute. :)

What if, for the sake of argument, that rather than offering a verbal apology, the dominant takes steps to correct his/her mistake. I would think that would speak a greater sincerity then a verbal apology. To add to the above example, a prompt examination, triage and treatment might speak volumes. Would a verbal apology be specifically required, or would action be more significant?


Excellent, if previously overlooked point. Words without actions are worthless

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Apologising to Subby - 7/23/2006 8:08:50 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

An interesting thread. Mind if I throw in an intellectual twist?

I'm not going to do the 'me too' thing. Stating the obvious will not contribute. :)

What if, for the sake of argument, that rather than offering a verbal apology, the dominant takes steps to correct his/her mistake. I would think that would speak a greater sincerity then a verbal apology. To add to the above example, a prompt examination, triage and treatment might speak volumes. Would a verbal apology be specifically required, or would action be more significant?

Getting things back on track is all that is important to me, and speaks more volumes than an apology.  I don't really care if the words "I'm sorry" come out of his mouth or not, at that point. 

(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Apologising to Subby - 7/23/2006 9:18:08 PM   
Avrilkiller


Posts: 45
Joined: 6/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks to all for the answers. Alright then...yes, it seemed natural and necessary for me to apologise for my mistake, I was just curious if this was really seen as odd in the general opinion, as it was with her.
I also agree with the "Actions more than words" comments. Luckily, for her, it only grazed her and she was fine. **wipes forehead** Dominant or not, I would have felt awful for the rest of the night with her had it been worse. Funny, to me at least, I have no qualms about administering painful lashings or a chokehold when she needs it, but little things...stepping on fingers, burning her...sends me into shocking guilt.

Heh, also, Misstoyou, you're so right. Actually, a little later, it occured to me that she should have gotten a slap for telling me "You don't apologise to your subby!"

Once again, thanks.

(in reply to Master96)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 3:33:00 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		My take on it is:
 
People should always apologize for transgressions and/or mistakes made that affect others.
 
The model where a superior never deigns to do such (or, to show weakness) is flawed in a  time where people's knowledge of human interaction and/or education is such that such a mistake or error is obvious to the most casual observer - and, to not apologize is damaging to the dynamic (no matter what it is)
 
Just being a pragmatist:
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 5:06:03 AM   
OhReallyNow


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Master has admitted to this slave that he was wrong before, and even went so far as to apologize  This slave see's nothing wrong in HUMAN behavior

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~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 6:18:45 AM   
Lillithsdream


Posts: 20
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline 		A Dom I had been dating blew me off for my birthday. He promised to take me out, I was so excited since I haven't done anything special in years for my birthday. The week of, he said he was busy, and couldn't get the time off from work, he said we would make it the next weekend. Ok. I asked him what he had planned, he said none of my business, but , it would be nice. So, the night before, for our get together, I called, wanted to know at least what to wear, no answer~! Couldn't contact him. I finally got threw to him the next day, after noon time. He said once again, he was out researching work stuff. I asked him what was going on? We had plans. He said oh yeah...well what do you want to do about that? Wow......we ended up not getting together, no birthday anything, and I had arranged a babysitter for my child. I was pretty upset, hurt, and disappointed.  I thought forget about him.....this is not a good action for a Dom. He contacts me and states he doesn't know what my problem is ,......quote" he never hurt me".
Is this just poor self absorbed behavoir? Or is this Dominant behavior?
Lillith

(in reply to OhReallyNow)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 7:12:24 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Avrilkiller, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I promote the stand on giving apologies when it is due and deserved.  Once a dominant can apologize to the slave/submissive that has been harmed, they can then go into the process of forgiveness.
 
It only enhances the dominant--as those who look up to them as a dominant are looking at someone they can touch, not someone who refuses to acknowledge that they are human and humans make mistakes--by choice or by accident.
 
I posted in another thread, that I have had so many hurting slaves and submissives come into my personal space, to which all they wanted was an apology.  I've had slaves acknowledge me as a Master, empower me in their eyes as a Master and once they have given me power and authority, I then make that apology to that slave as a Master.  The fact that I was not the actual Master that hurt these slaves, to apologize to them because I wanted to, needed to do, knowing how I really care about the slave heart/soul/spirit/belly; have closed the door to a festering hurt that affected their following D/s or M/s relationships.  Once that door was closed, their slavery/submission was given new life.  They could move on and look forward.
 
I have often apologized as a dominant to others, because some refuse to do so.  It would shock some of you if you knew who I had to apologize for, because they refused to apologize.  (My lips are sealed though but they're rather well known).
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 7:28:00 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Lillthsdream, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I agree, that those dominants who do not follow up words with actions are not considerant individuals period.  Regardless if kink or vanilla, its just plain rude.
 
As you wrote, that you had baby-sitters, made plans, got yourself all excited and hopeful.  The apology should have been made right off immediately and would make darn sure, that I showed up as promised, short of a medical emergency and or life/death crisis.
 
I do agree, that an apology must be followed up with a sincere change in words and deeds.  It must be a change in what caused the problem to begin with.

That said, when things get over dramatized, a small mistake inflated into some drama; I won't apologize right a way.  When things calm down, as to communicate to the other how they see/saw through their mind's eye; then the understanding can be established.  Some people are extremely ouchy on certain areas of words used and or behavior used/displayed/felt.  To make an apology valid, one needs to know the error/mistake.  To make an apology valid, the effort to correct, ammend or abandon the instrument of the mistake (instrument can be oral, physical, etc.)

Lately, in the past year--most of the apologies I made, were to slaves that were students that came to me with their troubles.  It was warming to me, how they sought me out and I could give them the needed words to make a difference as to move on and forward, where those who should have apologized refused or were unable to apologize for a variety of reasons, such as one case where the Master passed on.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Lillithsdream)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 7:31:21 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		 An apology is something that is automatic for EVERYONE in my life, if they UNINTENTIONALLY hurt, no matter who they are.

Of course, if it's intentional, then that would be daft.

agirl







(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 7:37:19 AM   
hypnoticblue


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		I just had to add my thought on this.  I have two children.  Even though I am ALWAYS the boss in their eyes, I still appologize when I know I've done something wrong.  It doesn't make them respect me any less.  If anything, it gives them more respect for me as their PIC.

(in reply to Master96)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 7:46:31 AM   
Caitriona


Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Every person deserves an apology if they have been hurt by another, especially if it was unintentional, no matter what they call themselves (Master/Dom/sub/slave/ect).

_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 8:06:24 AM   
Lillithsdream


Posts: 20
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline 		 
Thank you LadyHugs~! I was feeling pretty down about this one for a while. It's good to know that indeed, an apology on anyones part, no matter who you are, whatever lifestyle, is important. It humbles us. Sometimes I feel as if some of the male Doms don't get this, like it's ego based. To be wrong>? Oh no~! Having healthy self esteem is one thing....that is attractive, but to be egotistical, well....we are all born under one creator~!
Lillth

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 11:36:43 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Lillithsdream, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Frankly, it has been my personal observation for these many years; that people are responsible for their own behavior.  Moms, Dads, teachers, guardians and the like have had the opportunity to depart civil behaviors and manners to the children, when they are being shaped by their enviorment and situation.  Perhaps these lads you speak of, had poor examples to learn from.  That is sad.
 
What is exciting though--as adults we have an ability to change!  We adults have the opportunity to inspire, to set the example, raise the standards by first doing it with ourselves.  The rest will change on it's own.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Lillithsdream)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 11:53:11 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I personally find it impossible to imagine not appologising. We are human, we make mistakes, we (hopefully) learn from them. To appologise to anyone adversely affected by them is part of the learning and growth process in my opinion. I also believe it helps establish trust in a relationship regardless of the type.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 3:58:51 PM   
Avrilkiller


Posts: 45
Joined: 6/17/2006
Status: offline 		Dear LadyHugs,
thank You so much for Your wonderful answers. i've since decided i was much in the right, and she really should have gotten a smart slap.
i agree, a Dominant who can recognize when They did not mean to hurt and apologise is all the stronger and wiser in my eyes. It also assures that the subby won't be wondering what the hell they were punished for, lol, since they know it was a mistake.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 4:01:08 PM   
Frank01


Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		The real problem is when one cannot apologize for ANY reason.

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 5:10:03 PM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		apologizing when wrong is just basic human respect and should be given to anyone provided they haven't disrespected you ....  Kinda like trust? Should be given but once ya fuck up...that's it!

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 5:17:04 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Apparently, her and a few others, both Dom and sub, think that a Dom should never apologise


Those who think that are fools. Clearly they believe that being a dominant is all in the act

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Apologising to Subby - 9/21/2006 5:24:23 PM   
SirMoi


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/9/2004
Status: offline 		Those who think that a Dom should never apologize are very dangerous people.

A submissive/slave needs to know that her 'Sir' is capable of not only being human, but also capable of admitting it.

There is a very major difference between being 'right' and being a Master.

(in reply to Avrilkiller)
Profile   Post #: 40
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