RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/26/2016 11:51:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCoeur

Oh, I cannot be bothered. This lucky women, blessed to be allowed out of the kitchen and allowed to work, just put in a 10 hour day, mostly in meetings with white males, which is kind of like being in a meeting with a bunch of third-graders. I have since then spent three hours working on a research paper, of course this is only because white males decided I might be able to handle an advanced degree, despite my delicate sensibilities. So, I think I am going to sleep on this one. But, clearly I hit some nerve.

Yeppers you definitely hit a nerve. I hope I won't disillusion you too much when I suggest that it's not as great an achievement as it might be in the case of most people because ....

... nerves are all our poor little whineyman RM has. No brains. No backbone. No gumption. No intelligence. No wit. No integrity. No nothing. Just very sensitive nerves ... that give him hell whenever a woman does well for herself, or women take another step towards equality and eliminating gender discrimination. He just cannot handle it.



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 2:22:24 AM)

Hit a nerve? Haha no, telling feminists/lefties how wrong and illogical they are makes me feel entertained rather than annoyed.

Its purely ironic, tweak, that you're calling me stupid and claiming I'm afriad of equality when I'm the one asking for equal consideration and empathy while your side wants female favouritism.

Wanting favouritism while claiming that you are aiming for equality makes you pretty damn stupid.



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 2:25:00 AM)

Oh and tweak, I see you're getting along with Mscoeur great. She being a female supremacist and you're a feminist...its like getting along like a house on fire :)



longwayhome -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 6:46:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

[Edited]

But of course, gynocentric turds like you and/or feminists make up any excuse under the sun to avoid the truth.



Thanks I've never been called a "gynocentric turd" before.

Just wondering which part of the post I did on murder rates was an "excuse .... to avoid the truth".

Your fox has been shot. People have admitted that female violence exists and is wrong. People have agreed that people of all genders, orientations and ages should be supported if they are victims of violence or abuse.

You are left with the fact that men commit most of the violence and kill many more women than the other way round.

On top of that, in the UK at least, everything that has been done over the last ten years to reduce the number of murders has benefited men more than women in both in terms of absolute numbers and percentage reductions. So there are positive examples of public policy working for male victims and not just women.

What part of that is so painful for you to recognise?



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 6:55:22 AM)

Why is it so painful for you to realise that the circumstances of others should have nothing to do with how much support and consideration a male victim gets.

What has other people got to do with how a male victim should be treated?

You have no argument to that. You just keep repeating the same crap without any logical reasoning behind it



longwayhome -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 8:06:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Why is it so painful for you to realise that the circumstances of others should have nothing to do with how much support and consideration a male victim gets.

What has other people got to do with how a male victim should be treated?

You have no argument to that. You just keep repeating the same crap without any logical reasoning behind it


In answer to your questions:

- It's not because I don't think that, and

- Nothing, everyone is an individual with their own needs.

I don't want to argue with that.

If you look carefully I have not argued against your assertions that men are people too, with feelings and needs. I have argued against your consistently negative view of women and apologetic approach to male violence.



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 8:20:36 AM)

Okay, I can do a better reply now that I'm back home on my laptop.


quote:

Just wondering which part of the post I did on murder rates was an "excuse .... to avoid the truth".


Speaking of "truth", I see you are displaying a nice example of being untruthful here. My opinion on you being in denial and avoiding truth was based on how society reacts to male victims of violence from women, NOT about murder rates.


quote:

Your fox has been shot. People have admitted that female violence exists and is wrong. People have agreed that people of all genders, orientations and ages should be supported if they are victims of violence or abuse.


But you seem to base this logical fallacy where you justify what happens to other people as an excuse to not give men equal consideration and support. There is no connection between male victims and what happens to other people who these male victims have nothing to do with.

quote:

You are left with the fact that men commit most of the violence and kill many more women than the other way round.


I've never denied that men commit more murders than women. However, women would commit violence at a close rate to men. You seem to imagine that you've won an argument or have victory of some kind. Sorry to ruin your hopes.

Speaking of violence, this is a good thorough study that I looked through years ago.


http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj

But of course, a gynocentrist wouldn't want to even turn an eye to this type of stuff and acknowledge it. Yes, you are a gynocentric turd.

It's not only to do with gynocentrism, it's also got to do with society being socially conditioned to believe that women are too pure to do wrong in most cases. That's why such mindsets like "he must have deserved it" are common. That impression overrides a different impression of that woman must be an evil abusive aggressor. This is also why the cops are more likely to take the woman's word over the man's in a DV situation.

When western societies compare men and women, it's similar in ways on how society compares blacks and whites. Like... if a black is doing something that is mildly suspicious of an evil, it's more likely that a black person may be deemed guilty compared to a white person. The same when it comes to gender. Men are treated like blacks and women are treated like whites.



longwayhome -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 11:13:56 AM)

I think, RM, that you are actually having an argument with a demon inside your own head.

You keep making up views and then ascribing them to others.

The majority of serious violence is male to female - a fact but one does not obscure the fact that female to male violence takes place and male victims should also be supported.

So what's your beef?

I think you really just need someone to argue with. You think that the feminazis are everywhere and you have to find them or your world view will fall apart. But instead here on CS you don't find the extreme man-hating you are arguing against, indeed you find both men and women taking a proportionate view of male power and privilege, who only find issue with your hypersensitivity to any issue of gender and your hatred of anything you think flags as feminist. Not that there's anything wrong with being feminist but, as you hold it to be the moral equivalent of nazism, it's a very serious charge for you.

So you turn us all into the feminazis who haunt your waking and sleeping hours. You run round hitting out at us because you can't get close enough to your real target, partly because it doesn't exist quite in the way that you imagine. Oh yes, of course there are radical feminists, and many of them don't like men very much, but they are just not as many of them as you think, and they are not the cardboard cut-outs, their teeth dripping with blood that you see in your mind's eye.

The men you single out for particular attack, not because we are anti-men, but just because we recognise that men have had all sorts of advantages for many years, and in many ways still do. We live in far from an equal society. This is not ground-breaking radicalism any more. In fact I don't think it ever was. Women just didn't have the public voice to make themselves heard.

So here we are. Discussing this topic of gendered violence, with both female and male victims being given respect, but you are still throwing around the insults, just because you can handle the fact that there is an imbalance in numbers.

An imbalance. That's all. And you can't even handle that without the demons in your head howling.

You've obviously got something really evil to fight, but I don't think it's us. I don't know who did what to you, but I sincerely hope you can find peace with it all somehow.




respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 1:18:52 PM)

Longway, you keep creating a stance and claiming that I own it. I tend to find it's too much work to keep going back to explain your straw man. When it comes to an example of female on male violence, my stance is pointing out common mindsets in society. Your stance is that "hey I don't think this or that way, see, see see, so you are wrong I tell you!"

Sorry, buddy, that doesn't work.

My argument isn't about how you think when it comes to an example of female on male violence, my argument is simply about common mindsets in western societies as I have proven through them social experiment videos for example.

Then you carried on to claim that my stance is that I think men don't get any support at all, which is again another straw man you are using to make your argument appear better or sensible when it's really not.

I never claimed that men don't get any support at all. If you think I did, feel free to point out quotes. Until then, stop fucking lying. My stance is that men get way less support compared to women. Not men don't get support at all. So you showing your pissy links isn't doing any progress for your sake. It actually makes my argument better as any example either of us can cite, a program that helps victims, it will always be clearly evident that there is more done for women compared to men. That's not equality. So this is why I have a fucking problem with it and I have every right to do so.

But then again you will go on to spout about women have it worse and men are just so much more evil as you have throughout this thread. It seems that you are using this as a reason to give less support to a male victim compared to a female victim. My argument is how is the circumstances of others a connection to how a male victim is treated?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 1:41:43 PM)

RM, you keep saying that women do as much violence as men.
I have yet to see any evidence of what you claim.
Apart from picking odd instances, you have provided no proof or creditable cite whatsoever.

You don't deny that men do the violence but you keep harping on about the women that do it ad nauseum.
I have given you several examples of why women get away with a little more than men do but you won't admit any of it.
You think that men and women are equally fit and capable of doing each other equal harm and point out that men get a rough deal.
I have shown you that men and women are not equal when it comes to height, weight, frame and capabilities and that's why they tend to get a little leeway - but you fail to see any of it.

Your blinkered crusade is nothing more than pure unadulterated crap and bias on all fronts.

We get that you hate feminists.
But to keep bleating about it is puerile and tedious.
Get your head out of your ass and see the world as it is - not thru stupid glasses that skew and warp your worldview.




respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 1:55:04 PM)

quote:

RM, you keep saying that women do as much violence as men.
I have yet to see any evidence of what you claim.
Apart from picking odd instances, you have provided no proof or creditable cite whatsoever.


Yawn

http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj

None so blind as those who will not see.

Gotta larf

quote:

I have given you several examples of why women get away with a little more than men do but you won't admit any of it.
You think that men and women are equally fit and capable of doing each other equal harm and point out that men get a rough deal.


Why should women get excused to get away with more simply because of being physically weaker? Isn't this just encouraging girls/women to be violent by letting them get away with what men can't? How is that supposed to resolve anything?

Anyway, besides all of that, what I am about to say isn't directed at you freedom but to every one.

Here is another example of how terrible feminists treat men in the domestic violence industry...besides how they treat male victims.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/News/14815328.Rift_opens_up_in_Scottish_Women_s_Aid_over__group_which_appointed_a_male_director____eight_years_ago/

Noooo! Feminists don't hate men at all.



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 2:04:51 PM)

This is a great read.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/27/australian-governments-accused-of-failing-to-properly-acknowledge-role-of-alcohol-in-family-violence

Until feminists/leftist stop making this as a gendered problem and consider all the contributing factors, not just alcohol, we will never make any real progress of bettering the issue. Blaming patriarchy, masculinity, men, male privilege, isn't working, what makes you think it's going to all the sudden work in the future?

Oh and another great read for food for thought. This is too complicated for feminists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/19/australians-are-being-told-that-gender-inequality-is-the-root-cause-of-domestic-violence-but-is-it



PeonForHer -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 3:59:30 PM)

RM,

Every argument you come up with implies that feminists are buggering up men's lives. But as far as I can see, feminists aren't doing diddly to men's lives. Governments are. *Other men* are. The rulers of our societies fuck up men's lives more than do feminists - and always have done. It wasn't feminists who kicked off the Great War, nor WW2, nor Viet Nam. It isn't feminists, now, who push us men to strive and fight to climb the greasy pole in business, get heart disease, and die too young.

I see that you have anger. But are you directing it the right way? Feminists aren't in control over men's lives. Governments - the powers that be, in general - are not made up of feminists, and are little-influenced by feminism. Why is that feminists, and feminism, are/is the enemy on which you focus so much?

If you had a magic button that you could press, which would instantly silence every feminist in the world, would it really change your life markedly for the better? If so, how?



Wayward5oul -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 4:12:36 PM)

RM, you have stated:
Here is another example of how terrible feminists treat men in the domestic violence industry...besides how they treat male victims.

and

Noooo! Feminists don't hate men at all. (sarcasm clearly intended)

And yet, from your link-the article starts out identifying the feminist group Moray's Women's Aid. Statement from the group:
In the resignation letter, Elle Johnston, services manager for Moray Women’s Aid said the appointment of Mr Leadbitter, a local councillor and a member of the White Ribbon campaign which works to stamp out violence against women, was based on merit.

She added: “It is whether you have the necessary skills and passion that is the most important, not whether or not someone has a beard.

“We have 10 members on our board, all the others are very strong females working alongside men to achieve equality for all. Not all men are abusers, there are good decent men out there and we should be working alongside them to achieve mutual equality and respect.”

But wait, that can't be right...because feminists hate men and would never elevate one to a position on their governing board, and then take such a strong stance in defense of him...

Or maybe its just radical feminists...



stef -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 4:44:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Longway, you keep creating a stance and claiming that I own it.

Is it irony day on Collarchat?



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 5:10:17 PM)

Peon

Feminists may have not created problems but they contribute to problems. Such like the empathy gap. Feminists didn't create the empathy gap but they are huge contributors of it. Feminists keep reproducing the empathy gap which helps keep it prevailing.

There is no proof that patriarchy is to blame for whatever you blame it on. Patriarchy theory is based on assumption, not fact. It's impossible to prove that patriarchy is to blame for anything. Anyway, as I have mentioned in the past, blaming patriarchy is like blaming the people who created guns instead of the person in the present who is misusing the gun.

Feminists use the empathy gap for their benefit while blaming patriarchy for it happening. It's like a feminist holding a machine gun and wiping a ton of men out. You can't blame the feminist because it was patriarchy that created guns.

Feminists claim to be anti patriarchy while leaching off the benefits of anything that patriarchy is blamed for.

Wayward5oul

No doubt that there are some good feminists, like Christina Hoff Sommers. The problem is that the bigot feminists have taken over the good feminists in the movement. That's why we see what's happening in that article. A minority of feminists may have not had a problem with that man but a majority of feminists do. I believe it's hard to find a feminist who isn't an anti male bigot.



MsCoeur -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 6:21:00 PM)

I am sure this will result in you spewing venom towards me which is fine I am cool with that.

I am not sure where this anger comes from. I am trying to understand your point. You say their is an empathy gap in regards to male victims of female violence. I know quite a few strong women and all of them would expect a male victim to get the same care and support as a woman. I think the lack of empathy is more male generated. How many males are supportive to other male abuse victims, or do they judge them as weak. I actually think I may have found my next research project.

No, blaming patriarchy is not like blaming guns. I will not get started on the gun debate. Patriarchy is a social structural concept and exists in almost every culture in the world and is the foundation for almost every institution. One simply needs to look at the line of accession for royalty throughout history. Look at most universities here in the U.S. more women now attend college then males, yet the majority of administration are older white males who were placed in the role by other older white males. Most religions are patriarchal institutions and the more fundamentalist they are the more patriarchal they are. Another example is how boys are raised to often to forgive their behavior on being male, its locker room talk, boys will be boys, men just cannot control themselves around beautiful women ...

The argument about the feminist and machine gun just makes no sense to be. I feel that maybe you assaulted and you were not supported? you seem to focus in on that point, or know someone who was. If that is the case know that I would have supported and know many women who would do the same thing.



PeonForHer -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 6:22:42 PM)

quote:


There is no proof that patriarchy is to blame for whatever you blame it on. Patriarchy theory is based on assumption, not fact. It's impossible to prove that patriarchy is to blame for anything. Anyway, as I have mentioned in the past, blaming patriarchy is like blaming the people who created guns instead of the person in the present who is misusing the gun.

Feminists use the empathy gap for their benefit while blaming patriarchy for it happening. It's like a feminist holding a machine gun and wiping a ton of men out. You can't blame the feminist because it was patriarchy that created guns.

Feminists claim to be anti patriarchy while leaching off the benefits of anything that patriarchy is blamed for.


I didn't mention the patriarchy. I just talked about the powers that be.

What I'm saying is: why bring it back to a gender thing *at all*? If men are suffering hassles that are specific to men - and I absolutely agree that they are, and have done, for a very long time - why assume that it's feminists who are causing said hassles? Me, I've never focused on feminists as the cause of the griefs in my life. Why would I? They're not the ones that have the power in society to screw up my life.

So much of what you say makes me think of two kids - one boy, one girl - with yourself saying to your parents,'You're giving my sister more than you're giving me. It's not fair!' But it's not your sister doing the bad thing here. It's your parents - the government, the powers that be, that is. As I keep saying, RM - feminism is the wrong target. You've made a fundamental mistake as to who and what is your real enemy.



respectmen -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 7:47:01 PM)

MsCoeur

quote:

I know quite a few strong women and all of them would expect a male victim to get the same care and support as a woman. I think the lack of empathy is more male generated.


I showed this video earlier in this thread or in another thread.

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/sharon-osborne-leads-laughs-about-male-genital-mutilation

An all female panel with an audience mostly female by the sounds.

Explain that one.

Who are more likely to work in DV agencies? Women or men?

95.3% of men felt domestic violence agencies were anti-male...40% reported being accused of perpetrating DV when seeking help at said agencies.

http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf

As to your theory on patriarchy. Feminists and/or men haters pretty much blame patriarchy on anything that annoys them in life. It's used as a multi-purpose scapegoat whenever it suits. Patriarchy is meant to convey that men as a group hold power over women as a group....which is not the case at all. Just because important and influential roles in society are filled by men, feminists claim it's a patriarchy and use this to conclude that patrarchy is about male dominance and power while without considering whether other men really have any power. Only a very small subset of men hold this power. Less than 1 percent of the male population. What's also not considered is whether this small subset of men use their power to help men in general. If not, it cannot be said to be "male power".

Feminist patriarchy theory focuses exclusively on the power of a small subset of men while ignoring the powerlessness of most men!

Most people at the very top may well be men. Most people at the very bottom are men. The "glass cellar" in other words. The glass ceiling is always discussed while the glass cellar is hardly discussed.



longwayhome -> RE: Signs of sanity: Australians outraged over abusive "male privilege" lessons to be taught at schools (10/27/2016 8:57:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

[Edited]

But then again you will go on to spout about women have it worse and men are just so much more evil as you have throughout this thread. It seems that you are using this as a reason to give less support to a male victim compared to a female victim. My argument is how is the circumstances of others a connection to how a male victim is treated?



I've taken out the bits where you claimed I have misrepresented you. Other people can judge that.

I cannot see anywhere in this thread that I have made any of the arguments you make in the paragraph above. I have said that more women than men are the victims of domestic violence and there are more domestic/partner murders of women than men. This is undeniably true. What I have not done is make a generalised moral judgement based on those facts. I have also categorically not made the argument that male victims should receive less support than female ones - that one's completely in yer head mate.

It is an interesting reflection on your thought process that you claim that I have "gone on" about how "men are just so much more evil as you have throughout this thread". That's what really upsets you isn't it. The suggestion that men as a whole are evil because some men are violent and abusive at home. As a man, I am saddened by that and have reflected on my own attitudes and actions, however I don't feel that I am being held personally to account for the actions of every man, good or evil.

Let's be absolutely clear about what my main disagreements are with you on this topic, in fact across the Boards

- your constant assertion that you, as a man, have things so much worse than women, and

- your hatred of feminists and by implication almost all women and a large part of the male population, just because they will not join you in wallowing in your pit of despair about how bad life is for you being a man.

Tell me, do you feel personally burdened by the crimes men have carried out over the years?

Do you feel "more evil" because you are a man?

And who is making you feel like that?



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