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[Poll]

Is it rape

Yes

58% (7)

No

25% (3)

both women are guilty of rape

16% (2)

Total Votes : 12

(last vote on : 11/1/2016 12:02:33 PM)
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RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 10:56:38 AM

WickedsDesire

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For fuking idiots like oh heavlysockblinker they are two completely unrelated scenarios and I posted the link to someone elses thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_4962659/tm.htm as being the reason why i started this one. Now, I think I made a mistake in the first scenario by using me, a feeble man, as an example - scenario two is a true story btw which is why they are in essence different.

As for the law residentevil there are a couple of high profile cases involving footballers UK and whether the women were too drunk to consent, and both said they were raped. I also wonder if the genders were reversed what would have happened.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 41

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 11:01:51 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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@Awareness wrote:

[Quote] "...Well, the thing is, you're not wrong. The feminist party line is that a sexual encounter is rape if a woman "feels violated". And this feeling is allowed to be retroactive, so if you regret an encounter you had years ago, then feminist doctrine insists that you're perfectly within your rights to call it rape.

This sums up the quintessential problem with rape. It's possible for the only difference between consensual sex and rape to be how the participants feel about it. Trying to construct a framework for prevention of crime based around people's feelings is fraught with peril. "[/quote]

This is one reason statutes of limitations exist. Not that I agree with your point about it being a quintessential problem with rape. You have a deeply ingrained opinion of feminism and I'm not interested in proselytizing for or against "the cause." The quintessential problem with rape, is that someone was violated. Another quintessential problem with rape gender bias is that there are always people focusing on the extreme spectrums of bias; the reality of someone was harmed gets buried under and their voice silenced by the extremist arguments.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 42

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 11:02:55 AM

ThatDizzyChick

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Yes, of course it is rape.

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Post #: 43

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 11:18:21 AM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
This is one reason statutes of limitations exist.

Well they do exist, but apparently not in the Cosby case and we're seeing arguments from people saying they shouldn't exist in the case of (alleged) sexual assault. I think what troubles me about the Cosby circus is the trial-by-media aspect as well as the fact that these women are retaining lawyers with the intent of taking his money. Testifying against someone with the prospect of financial reward for perjuring yourself is exactly what the judicial system is supposed to prevent, but in this case, lying has a huge financial incentive.

quote:

Not that I agree with your point about it being a quintessential problem with rape. You have a deeply ingrained opinion of feminism and I'm not interested in proselytizing for or against "the cause." The quintessential problem with rape, is that someone was violated.

Yes, they were violated.... if it actually happened. The problem is that any woman can accuse any man of rape without repercussions. Yes. Men rape. And yes, women also falsely accuse men of rape because accusations are a weapon. And it's not 2%, it's an incredibly high proportion of rape claims. I don't want to see women raped, but I also don't want to see innocent men have their lives and careers ruined by women who have no conscience.

quote:

Another quintessential problem with rape gender bias is that there are always people focusing on the extreme spectrums of bias; the reality of someone was harmed gets buried under and their voice silenced by the extremist arguments.

SOMETIMES someone was harmed. And sometimes, it's a complete and utter fabrication. And it's the fabrications that justify the skepticism. We should not simply be taking women at their word. That puts a gun in the hand of every woman which she can point at the head of any man she dislikes. And women can and do use that gun freely.

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(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

Post #: 44

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 11:53:08 AM

heavyblinker

Posts: 3623
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
For fuking idiots like oh heavlysockblinker they are two completely unrelated scenarios and I posted the link to someone elses thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_4962659/tm.htm as being the reason why i started this one. Now, I think I made a mistake in the first scenario by using me, a feeble man, as an example - scenario two is a true story btw which is why they are in essence different.

I think it's more that the way you communicate is ridiculous and causes people to not take you seriously at every turn, whereas others are capable of choosing a communication style that emphasizes clarity and can be tailored to suit the tone of their message.

Anyways, whatever... you were obviously raped because I highly doubt that any woman in the world would resist the opportunity to procreate with someone so deranged. The notion of bearing a child that could end up with whatever mental condition you also have must be so appealing that they couldn't possibly care about your consent.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

Post #: 45

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 2:36:34 PM

WickedsDesire

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I actually have two sock drawers and three cats and a reality...I will wager you, and your errant spittle, my ankle sock drawer would trounce none of the three that is youl You are an incomplete marvel of nothing. Behold thy.

This thread is excellent, your contribution arse spraying mayhem...i saw you create thyself did I not. Nothingness.

I like beautiful
1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPiu4QmJyWs
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7BO_hqe_q0

We must have a coherent debate sometime creature of no reality

(in reply to heavyblinker)

Post #: 46

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 4:55:50 PM

tamaka

Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
For fuking idiots like oh heavlysockblinker they are two completely unrelated scenarios and I posted the link to someone elses thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_4962659/tm.htm as being the reason why i started this one. Now, I think I made a mistake in the first scenario by using me, a feeble man, as an example - scenario two is a true story btw which is why they are in essence different.

I think it's more that the way you communicate is ridiculous and causes people to not take you seriously at every turn, whereas others are capable of choosing a communication style that emphasizes clarity and can be tailored to suit the tone of their message.

Anyways, whatever... you were obviously raped because I highly doubt that any woman in the world would resist the opportunity to procreate with someone so deranged. The notion of bearing a child that could end up with whatever mental condition you also have must be so appealing that they couldn't possibly care about your consent.

Funny how it is ok to talk to someone with a possible mental issue in such a demeaning and derogatory way but people with other 'issues' demand such tolerance, understanding, acceptance and perhaps even societal changes to ensure everyone had a chance to get the same issue.

(in reply to heavyblinker)

Post #: 47

RE: Is it rape - 10/30/2016 5:24:45 PM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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FR
WD, it is the same for both male and female. IF a male feel violated, it is a rape. If a female feel violated, it is rape!
The key is to check that the sex is consensual!
No rocket science.

(in reply to tamaka)

Post #: 48

RE: Is it rape - 10/31/2016 10:11:21 PM

heavyblinker

Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Funny how it is ok to talk to someone with a possible mental issue in such a demeaning and derogatory way but people with other 'issues' demand such tolerance, understanding, acceptance and perhaps even societal changes to ensure everyone had a chance to get the same issue.

Look who's taking the forum so seriously all of a sudden. If you really want to encourage kindness and caring here, it might be better to lead by example. It's really hard to imagine that you can actually think you have any sort of moral high ground here... you saw an opportunity to be shitty to someone and you took it. How does that make you better than me?

And if you re-check your info, you'll see that I wasn't demanding or expecting anything except people like you to be their shitty selves.

(in reply to tamaka)

Post #: 49

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 9:06:37 AM

ThatDizzyChick

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quote:

IF a male feel violated, it is a rape. If a female feel violated, it is rape!

No, rape is not based on feeling violated. Rape is sex without consent.

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Post #: 50

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 11:02:43 AM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

IF a male feel violated, it is a rape. If a female feel violated, it is rape!

No, rape is not based on feeling violated. Rape is sex without consent.

No. It is not. According to feminism it's rape if a woman feels violated.

As Cathy Young points out, feminists want to criminalise all sorts of behaviours which are clearly not rape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/20/feminists-want-us-to-define-these-ugly-sexual-encounters-as-rape-dont-let-them/

Ah, feminists. Hating men since 1848.

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Post #: 51

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 11:19:39 AM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

No. It is not. According to feminism it's rape if a woman feels violated.

As Cathy Young points out, feminists want to criminalise all sorts of behaviours which are clearly not rape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/20/feminists-want-us-to-define-these-ugly-sexual-encounters-as-rape-dont-let-them/

TDC's definition is more likely to be correct for most feminists, Awareness. As we know, a feminist is somebody who believes in equality of the sexes, and most of those believe that rape is sex without consent. I, for instance, am a feminist, and I agree that rape is sex without consent. As always, your idea of what feminism is, is too distorted to be of service.

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(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 52

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 12:05:43 PM

Awareness

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Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

No. It is not. According to feminism it's rape if a woman feels violated.

As Cathy Young points out, feminists want to criminalise all sorts of behaviours which are clearly not rape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/20/feminists-want-us-to-define-these-ugly-sexual-encounters-as-rape-dont-let-them/

TDC's definition is more likely to be correct for most feminists, Awareness. As we know, a feminist is somebody who believes in equality of the sexes, and most of those believe that rape is sex without consent. I, for instance, am a feminist, and I agree that rape is sex without consent. As always, your idea of what feminism is, is too distorted to be of service.

So let's clarify your stance.

If a woman consents to sex and then feels violated after the act, is it rape or not?

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Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

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Post #: 53

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 12:14:48 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

So let's clarify your stance.

If a woman consents to sex and then feels violated after the act, is it rape or not?

Well, I'd suggest you go to the many, many legal cases where that's been fought over, A. These have become fraught because such cases will turn on subtleties. Most feminists, like most people, agree that rape is sex without consent. That's what I believe too.

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Post #: 54

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 1:38:40 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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quote:

No. It is not.

Yes it is

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Post #: 55

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 1:39:55 PM

ThatDizzyChick

Posts: 5490
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quote:

If a woman consents to sex and then feels violated after the act, is it rape or not?

No it is not, assuming that consent was not withdrawn before the act was completed.

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Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 56

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 2:11:49 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

No. It is not.

Yes it is

It's great when he does that emphatic two-sentence refutation thing, isn't it?

Awareness:

To me, a problem we have on this is the conflation of two levels. On one level - that of the legal, and that of simple morality: If a woman consents to sex but later feels violated - then it's not a rape. It doesn't make sense to withdraw consent retrospectively.

The other level leads in to the sorts of considerations that, way back in the early eighties, Catharine MacKinnon was talking about when she said 'Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated'. (And recall that line 'the personal is political') Say: a woman has sex with a man and then later feels as though she's been violated by it. Why did this happen? Did the man somehow force her into saying 'Yes' ... because the woman felt that to say 'No' would have led to trouble further down the line? Did the woman say 'Yes' because she had a deep-rooted belief that it was her (marital, female, whatever) duty to agree to sex unless she really, really loathed the idea of it?

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Post #: 57

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 2:41:22 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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quote:

Did the man somehow force her into saying 'Yes' ... because the woman felt that to say 'No' would have led to trouble further down the line?

If he forced her to consent, then that consent is not valid. If she consented simply because she thought things might be worse later if she didn't without there being some history of abuse or violence, then that is on her, she consented.

quote:

Did the woman say 'Yes' because she had a deep-rooted belief that it was her (marital, female, whatever) duty to agree to sex unless she really, really loathed the idea of it?

Again, that's on her, she consented for her own reasons.

A lot of the rhetoric surrounding rape is bullshit. If feeling violated after sex or being drunk/stoned during sex is rape, then I have been willingly raped hundreds of times.

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Post #: 58

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 2:53:27 PM

PeonForHer

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I was trying to distinguish between a) 'rape' and b) a feeling of it. Two different things. A is a lot more straightforward - legally and morally. B) gets complicated. 'Blame', one way or another, doesn't seem as relevant. It's more about a fucked up situation than anything.

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Post #: 59

RE: Is it rape - 11/1/2016 4:46:59 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
As for the law residentevil there are a couple of high profile cases involving footballers UK and whether the women were too drunk to consent, and both said they were raped. I also wonder if the genders were reversed what would have happened.

I like to think IF a man is too drunk to consent, it is rape IF he felt violated while he was drunk.
It's straight forward.

Because end of the day, it's the same with women. Some women may be too drunk to consent, but are happy with the sex and didn't feel violated.

Some women may be too drunk to consent and then feel violated, like their choice was taken away from them.

I literally know at least 2 real life stories where the woman tried to get a man drunk to have sex with him. And the man has to fight his way out, as gentleman, he will help her home, and once home, she strips and throws herself on him and try to strip him too. And not respecting the No. But in both cases, both men were stronger and able to fight their way out.

The problem is, if situations were reverse, few women are successful in fighting their way out.

My own brother was raped by a masseuse in a foreign country once. In this case, she was much bigger and stronger than him. There is an involuntarily way to make a man erect. And she forced herself on top of him, managed to penetrate him for a while, before he managed to fight her off and push her off and leave.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/1/2016 4:55:09 PM >

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Post #: 60

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