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Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/5/2016 10:34:25 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Life for the medieval peasant was certainly no picnic. But despite his reputation as a miserable wretch, you might envy him one thing: his vacations. (time off)

Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays.

In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year. (American's standard work year is 252 days, most work 300 or more) After a year on the job, [Americans] gets an average of eight vacation days annually.

When workers fought for the eight-hour workday, they weren't trying to get something radical and new, but rather to restore what their ancestors had enjoyed before industrial capitalists and the electric lightbulb came on the scene.

Fast-forward to the 21st century, and the U.S. is the only advanced country with no national vacation policy whatsoever. Oh but that would be socialism, right, or worse, like say, as opposed to slavery, the minimum wage..immoral right ? At least, what the conservatism of today would have you believe.

Oh but what about productivity ?

Ironically, this cult of endless toil doesn't really help the bottom line. Study after study shows that overworking reduces productivity. On the other hand, performance increases after a vacation, and workers come back with restored energy and focus. The longer the vacation, the more relaxed and energized people feel upon returning to the office.

But the belief that shorter vacations bring economic gains doesn't appear to add up. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) the Greeks, who face a horrible economy, work more hours than any other Europeans. In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity.

Beyond burnout, vanishing vacations make our relationships with families and friends suffer. Our health is deteriorating: depression and higher risk of death are among the outcomes for our no-vacation nation. Congressman Alan Grayson proposed the Paid Vacation Act of 2009, but alas, the bill didn't even make it to the floor of Congress.

Here's one you'll love...

Speaking of Congress...its members seem to be the only people in America getting as much down time as the medieval peasant. They get 239 days off this year.

Make sure you enjoy Thanksgiving (?)...the longest standard paid time off for the greatest number of American workers all year. 2 days.

HERE

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/5/2016 11:21:14 AM   
sloguy02246


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline 		"Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays.

In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year. (American's standard work year is 252 days, most work 300 or more)"


Quality of work should count as well.

I suspect the peasants' 150 work days were indeed, "backbreaking toil," and probably lasted from sun-up to sundown.
But even if today's Americans work 252 to 300 days a year, how many are doing "backbreaking toil" from sun-up to sundown, and how many spend a good portion of their workday on their phones using social media and internet surfing?

And I agree on Congress.
With that "workload" (and doing precious little actual work while in session), they should be paid no more than 1/4 of their current $174,000/year.

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/5/2016 12:11:19 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Speaking of Congress...its members seem to be the only people in America getting as much down time as the medieval peasant. They get 239 days off this year.


thus proving that long holidays do NOT necessarily make everyone more productive at their job..

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/5/2016 12:46:32 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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There is so much to this it is not funny.

Before electricity the time you could do certain work was limited. Though people did have lights in the house burning oil, these were not adequate for many purposes, like working outdoors. The society was largely agrarian because modern farming methods were not yet. Today, something like 2 % of the population can grow enough food for the rest, even though the nutritional value is less it keeps them fed.

People died trying to work at Ford. It paid very well and people like money. The conditions or whatever were just too much for some. Then pan to the 1970s, my Father worked seven days a week, twelve hours a day. Back then ten bucks an hour was pretty decent money, and that is not just 84 hours pay. There were 32 hours at time and a half and 12 hours at double time. And then the night shift came in and those machines ran 24/7. I did wonder why they did this instead of just having more employees but over the years I found that it was because he was highly skilled and it was hard to find more employees who could do the work. (he was involved in the prototype for the first floppy disk manufacturing machine for example, he was also known to walk in the engineer's office at times and say "This is a fucking pipe dream", so sometimes he had no choice but to get involved in the process)

Now the trend is changing. The olman did not run a punch press, he was a horizontal boring mill specialist but could run anything in the shop when needed. There is so little real, manual innovation in this country now that he is obsolete. If he was alive today he would probably have to go to Germany to get a job.

So now with the ACA, most small businesses, which MANY people work for still, are going to make sure nobody gets more than 28 hours. What's more, many businesses will simply pay cash under the table. Then the employee can claim indigence and get medicare. They didn't do anything good with that ill thought out piece of shit they didn't even read before they passed it. And not even realizing that there would be less taxpayers overall because of it.

And I pity the fool who works on the books for 28 hours a week and has to pay his own healthcare premiums. Shit, if you have had a foot fungus it is ten grand a year and a ten grand per year deductible. And the insurance companies say they are losing money, and they government says they are losing money. This money has to be going somewhere.

But that is only exacerbating the main problem. The fact is that with modern manufacturing one person can do the work of ten. What happens to the other nine ? Even the Germans are bitching that they get so few hours they can't afford to live independently. They have a term there "McJobs". They went down to a shorter work week many years ago but people can't even get that now.

I do not have a solution for this. Natural born troubleshooter, but this one got me. Maybe some sort of society where everyone just shares, to some extent, and we all put in some hours to improve the infrastructure and clean up the place and all that. Of course some union would bitch about that.

Or we could go help the elderly, take them shopping or whatever, mow the grass, but someone who is now making money for that would bitch about it.

All businesses are working on a lower margin than i the past. There are more people but there is not more money. Sure they are printing plenty but it is worth less and less. So more aptly put there is not more WEALTH.

Right now, the winners in business are building junk that has to be replaced soon. Building thing that cannot be fixed and so forth. People used to take a toaster in to get it fixed and the guy says "That'll be three dollars". Now you buy a Pioneer plasma TV ad get the estimate on a repair when it is barely a year out of warranty you have to pay for its disposal because the part is more than the thing is worth. People used to buy new cars with cash, now they put gasoline on a credit card.

This is like one of those coal miner towns. Saint Peter don't call me cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store.

The Japanese found out. Go ahead and have a bunch of kids. Now land is so expensive they got 100 year mortgages. Seriously, your kids are born owing. But that is not so different than the US, because every birth is considered a financial asset. If you read the law very carefully you find that YOU are collateral for the national debt. And let's not even go into personal debt, it is out of hand as well.

The government considers you property. Property cannot own property. That is why you get a "title deed" for land and a "certificate of title" for a car. They will not issue you an allodial deed for your land, and if you insist on keeping the manufacturer's statement of origin on your car they won't sell you license plates. I think Tennessee was the last state that would issue plates on a car's MSO. I am pretty sure they stopped doing that.

We are not really peasants. We are actually serfs, which is worse than being a slave.

Now if you are a slave who has simply been captured it is worse, I will not argue against that. But if you were bought, tha5t was not cheap. Your owner has a vested interest in keeping you alive so you get a free house, medical care and food. But a serf gets nothing. We are serfs. work for us, pay your taxes and then pay for your own food and housing, and now mandatory healthcare whether or not you need it. What the fuck do you call that ?

And I have never in my life had a paid vacation.

Greatest country in the world my fucking ass.

T^T

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/5/2016 8:51:54 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		My company gives 2 weeks paid leave for Chinese New Year! Sometimes, chinese superstition rules! They believe it's bad luck to work on these 2 weeks, thus the entire company is closed. Doors are locked, security thumbprint access are all disabled. Nobody is allowed to work or it's bad luck to the company. Anyway I work for a very Chinese superstitions religious boss. And he claim following all his superstitious beliefs lead him to his multi-millions. He claim he made his first million at 21. Back then when he was young, 1 mil must be like 1 billion today. The whole damn office is all Feng Shui too, water fountains at strategy spot, furniture positions all verified by Feng Shui Masters. It's a big office with 500 staff. The crazy part is, my boss does not even Speak English. When I communicate with him, I speak English to him and he speaks Mandarin back to me. I can't express myself properly in Mandarin and he can't express himself properly in English, but we both understand both languages so that's how we communicate.

This is on top of the mandatory minimum of 14 days paid leave. And the thing about mandatory leave is IF you don't take it, it doesn't carry over to next year, you lose it. And then of course, we got public holidays too. Thanks to our country giving public holidays to all races and all their special occasion, we got shitloads of public holidays.

IF we really want to stretch it, there is also a mandatory by law 14 days sick leave that we are entitled to.

Then you got child care leave, parental care leave, shit loads of other leave on top. All paid.

Still though, can't compare to the french. I heard their mandatory leave is 6 weeks each. That have not added in the public holiday yet!

I like what my old company did, which is for every year of service, you get add on one extra paid leave per year. So if you are a long time employee, you could get alot of extra days.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/5/2016 9:00:00 PM >

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/6/2016 2:48:46 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		In Australia the norm is for 4 weeks paid holidays plus a 17.5% loading, and ten paid sick days annually (longer periods of sickness can be covered by various insurances or Govt welfare. There's also about long weekend public holidays which are also paid.

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/6/2016 12:10:25 PM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Almost all workers in the UK are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks’ paid holiday per year. This may or may not include bank holidays.

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/6/2016 12:39:42 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

So alright some of you get like a month or more off every year, but how many hours is your work week ? Does any country have a standard 40 hour work week ?

It was the standard in the US up until the ACA, now everyone is going down to 28 hours a week. And now even more workers are going to get jobs through temp agencies, which probably have an exemption.

This was bound to happen and those of us who know manufacturing techniques and other things knew it already. You think a business that buys a multi-million dollar automated (like CNC) machine is going to pay nine people to stand around and scratch their balls ? Only at the post office folks. If that.

But back to the OP, YES, WE ARE PEASANTS. It is getting worse but that is going to correct itself. When we only make like fifty bucks a week how are we to buy $500 smartphones and pay $150 a month for cable ? How are we going to afford these $45,000 solar arrays to charge out $100,000 electric cars on 28 hours a week at $15 an hour, and on top of that pay $600 a month rent even i the fucking ghettos ?

What these aloof asshole do not understand is that there needs to be a market, people need money to buy those products otherwise they do not sell. Look at new cars, zero interest, all kinds of cash back, even now they are having a hard time giving them away. And not to forget your insurance is more than gas because they are made out of plastic. Cars used to have metal bumpers for a reason. Now you crack a piece of plastic and it is a grand to fix. A taillight lens is $500. That makes you slaves to the insurance companies.

Fucking happy now ?

I got plenty more and all true. Dispute what I have posted here, I welcome argument. Actually sane, almost polite argument, but still an argument.

T^T

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/6/2016 12:49:00 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

So alright some of you get like a month or more off every year, but how many hours is your work week ? Does any country have a standard 40 hour work week ?

It was the standard in the US up until the ACA, now everyone is going down to 28 hours a week. And now even more workers are going to get jobs through temp agencies, which probably have an exemption.

This was bound to happen and those of us who know manufacturing techniques and other things knew it already. You think a business that buys a multi-million dollar automated (like CNC) machine is going to pay nine people to stand around and scratch their balls ? Only at the post office folks. If that.

But back to the OP, YES, WE ARE PEASANTS. It is getting worse but that is going to correct itself. When we only make like fifty bucks a week how are we to buy $500 smartphones and pay $150 a month for cable ? How are we going to afford these $45,000 solar arrays to charge out $100,000 electric cars on 28 hours a week at $15 an hour, and on top of that pay $600 a month rent even i the fucking ghettos ?

What these aloof asshole do not understand is that there needs to be a market, people need money to buy those products otherwise they do not sell.

T^T


Who needs a market? The 1% don't really need a market anymore. The poorest people were never in the market... so it's the middle class that needs a market. If you don't want a middle class, dissolve the market (like they are doing) ... and over time you will have the rich, powerful 1% and the peasants who hope they can survive and feed their family. And that's where we're headed.

According to the chart about the middle class in various countries, the median income of the middle class is one- fourth that of Australia, and in fact is the lowest of all countries listed! So i guess the 1% can just move on to drain other middle class groups in other countries of their wealth once they are done here.

http://billmoyers.com/2015/01/26/middle-class/






< Message edited by tamaka -- 11/6/2016 1:25:00 PM >

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/6/2016 6:22:47 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

So alright some of you get like a month or more off every year, but how many hours is your work week ? Does any country have a standard 40 hour work week ?



Belgium has 5 weeks paid vacation for everybody, unlimited paid sick time, and a 38 hour work week.
Shift workers automatically get more. Overtime for hourly workers is paid a minimum 1.5x + and hour of extra vacation for every hour of overtime. Bank holidays are extended to everybody (thought the employer is not obligated to grant them the same day as the bank holiday).

Also, vacation time is calculated yearly, and not employer tied. You change employers mid-year, you keep all vacation time you hadn't used yet regardless of how it was acquired. You get your full minimum allotment in the beginning of each year, and don't need to wait to build it up monthly (though gains above the minimum due to overtime do get added as you earn them).

Belgium also extends 3 months of paid maternity AND paternity leave for parents of either gender, to be taken up any time before the child turns 5, consecutively, in blocks, or by changing to a part-time schedule, as well as an extra 6 months on top of that for breastfeeding mothers. It also gives everybody 3 years of "career interruption" vacation to be taken up in any form in blocks of a minimum of 2 weeks at time in case of certain life events or emergencies, as well as up to 5 years of "assistance care" vacation designed to permit people to take care of sick/elderly relatives who need home assistance, both of which count against the entire span of somebody's working career.

With my last job (3 shifts, including weekend work, and 12 hour shifts) I ended up with an average of 85 days of paid vacation time a days, not including bank holidays, or the two weeks we got over Christmas when the lab was closed for yearly maintenance.
I couldn't imagine getting a job in the US. My husband is lucky if he can get approval to take a solid 5 days in a row off.




< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 11/6/2016 6:31:19 PM >

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 9:33:28 AM   
MercTech


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Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Percentage wise; we are worse off than medieval peasants....

A peasant owed a tithe of 10% of his increase to the church.
A peasant owed a tax to his liege lord for protection from bandits. This was paid as service for common weal projects and taxes. (about 10%)
But modern man, once your rack up ALL the taxes, is giving over half of his income to the state.

Hmmmm, can I change careers to medieval village blacksmith?

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 9:46:24 AM   
Alecta


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Status: offline 		Oh but that's not counting the (moveable) property taxes, the land tax, trade tax, custom tax (although this was later revised to be on foreign merchants only), military tax and so on and so forth. Without looking at specific figures, I do not think the average middle-class are in any particular way better or worse off. We just like to pretend we are not the equivalent of medieval peasants.

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 11:04:53 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The only difference between historical peasants and modern day peasants is, the historical ones knew they were peasants.

Modern day peasants are a human race who have been pacified with material nonsense, an abundance of entertainment and a hundred different flavors of coffee. We have been nurtured into believing we need to be kept safe and comfortable (accepted by the other peasants). To retain that much needed safety and comfort, we allow a small percentage in power to manipulate and control our very existence.

We are ruled by thieves and there’s very little us cynics can do about it.


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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 11:23:14 AM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The only difference between historical peasants and modern day peasants is, the historical ones knew they were peasants.

Modern day peasants are a human race who have been pacified with material nonsense, an abundance of entertainment and a hundred different flavors of coffee. We have been nurtured into believing we need to be kept safe and comfortable (accepted by the other peasants). To retain that much needed safety and comfort, we allow a small percentage in power to manipulate and control our very existence.

We are ruled by thieves and there’s very little us cynics can do about it.



Actually there's plenty we could do about it but we seem to like it this way... at least, for the most part.

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 12:03:00 PM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The only difference between historical peasants and modern day peasants is, the historical ones knew they were peasants.

Modern day peasants are a human race who have been pacified with material nonsense, an abundance of entertainment and a hundred different flavors of coffee. We have been nurtured into believing we need to be kept safe and comfortable (accepted by the other peasants). To retain that much needed safety and comfort, we allow a small percentage in power to manipulate and control our very existence.

We are ruled by thieves and there’s very little us cynics can do about it.



Actually there's plenty we could do about it but we seem to like it this way... at least, for the most part.



Oh come on! most people are sleep walking through this so called 'democracy'. If they don't consider themselves surfs, why would they stand up against their government? Even if there were millions of us, martial law would never allow a peasants revolt.

Some years ago, we sold our house, moved on to our boat, which we made our home and set sail with the wind. We had no debt, we sold our cars, broke up our credit cards and with the savings we had, we had enough to live on for a number of years. We generated our own electricity and converted sea water into fresh water. We did nothing wrong other than brake away from the system for a couple of years and lived mainly by bartering with other people like ourselves. Getting back onto that system proved to be very problematic. Our nomadic actions had the system we had lived and worked in for so many years, deeming us as 'non-persons'. To be accepted back into society (and for personal reasons we had to), we had to tick all the right boxes and the only way we could do that was by conforming to be surfs of the state.


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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 1:55:40 PM   
Alecta


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Joined: 1/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
We have been nurtured into believing we need to be kept safe and comfortable (accepted by the other peasants). To retain that much needed safety and comfort, we allow a small percentage in power to manipulate and control our very existence.

We are ruled by thieves and there’s very little us cynics can do about it.



But that's exactly how Medieval peasants thought and lived too. So, excepting the coffee, and having different tastes in entertainment (they still get entertainment), still the same lol

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 7:58:20 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Percentage wise; we are worse off than medieval peasants....

A peasant owed a tithe of 10% of his increase to the church.
A peasant owed a tax to his liege lord for protection from bandits. This was paid as service for common weal projects and taxes. (about 10%)
But modern man, once your rack up ALL the taxes, is giving over half of his income to the state.

Hmmmm, can I change careers to medieval village blacksmith?




Great topic Mr. Rogers.
It is always encouraging when others see beyond the facade that the media attempts to brain wash us with.
All of us are not asleep, and can see reality.
I really think most people can't handle the truth.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 8:07:22 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

So alright some of you get like a month or more off every year, but how many hours is your work week ? Does any country have a standard 40 hour work week ?




Standard hours is usually 5 days, 9am to 5pm, but....., seldom people stick to the timing, most always work longer till late up to 9pm or 10pm.

But I think it's a productivity problem as most people are spending too much time on their mobile phones at work, that they end up not finishing their work on time.

Like, people are at my work place are disrespectfully playing pokemon go during monthly company meetings.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/7/2016 8:08:11 PM >

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 8:13:03 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		It looks like Europe has the best paid leave situation!

More paid leave the better!

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RE: Are we merely modern peasants...or worse ? - 11/7/2016 8:39:00 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

Oh but that's not counting the (moveable) property taxes, the land tax, trade tax, custom tax (although this was later revised to be on foreign merchants only), military tax and so on and so forth. Without looking at specific figures, I do not think the average middle-class are in any particular way better or worse off. We just like to pretend we are not the equivalent of medieval peasants.


lol, most won't admit this no matter how hard things get for many people.
Peasants with technology, unable to grasp most are peasants.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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