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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 4:52:26 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

It's used as a pejorative a lot, these days. That is, 'somebody so right wing he's just a twat'.

That is true, ignorant people do use it that way. However, that does not mean I have to pander to their ignorance. Especially as fascism is not inherently either left or right wing, it can be either.

Now, that being said, if one does wish to compare Trump to fascists, then a very good case can be made for his campaign strategy, which very closely mirrors that employed by many fascists in the past. That, however, does not mean that he is a fascist, only that he has employed the same basic electoral strategy that other fascists have used. And, as can be seen by the success of those fascists and Trump, given the right set of circumstances, it can be a very effective strategy.

As an aside, this basic strategy was also employed by the Brexit camp.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 4:54:07 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		The comparison going around Facebook a lot now is that of Trump and Silvio Berlusconi.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 4:58:44 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Fascism is a political philosophy that places the interests of the state above those of the people or any segment of the people.


AKA authoritarianism.


No. Incorrect. Yes fascism is an authoritarian philosophy, but they are not synonymous. One can have an authoritarian regime that places the interests of a given segment of the population as paramount.

quote:

but truth be told whenever you combine authoritarianism with bigotry you've got fascism.

Again, no. This just is not so. Bigotry is not an inherent component of fascism, despite the fact that it is a component of many fascist movements.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:00:05 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The comparison going around Facebook a lot now is that of Trump and Silvio Berlusconi.

I'm not familiar enough with Berlusconi to say one way or another.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:09:19 PM   
PeonForHer


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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:10:28 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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He's a shit

Well that's hardly an uncommon attribute among politicians. :)

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:24:49 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

One can have an authoritarian regime that places the interests of a given segment of the population as paramount.


And how is that segment defined?

quote:

Bigotry is not an inherent component of fascism, despite the fact that it is a component of many fascist movements.


Many? When has there ever been an egalitarian fascist government (now there's an oxymoron if there ever was one)? The bigotry is absolutely necessarily because it is needed to focus the population's hatred and anger away from the government that is oppressing them. Now if you want to argue for some hypothetical "pure" fascism untainted by bigotry go right ahead but it will be exactly that - hypothetical. It will have no relation to reality.

I am curious as to why this is so important to you. In the future when I call Trump "President Dildo Head," are you then going to rag on me about the shape of dildos?



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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:37:13 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

One can have an authoritarian regime that places the interests of a given segment of the population as paramount.


Such as the liberals.

quote:

The bigotry is absolutely necessarily because it is needed to focus the population's hatred and anger away from the government that is oppressing them.



Add... illusion of ... before the word 'bigotry' ... and you start to see how the people have been, and continue to be pitted against each other to benefit ???

Smoke & mirrors.




< Message edited by tamaka -- 11/10/2016 5:42:30 PM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:50:06 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Such as the liberals.


This makes no sense. A liberal is a person who believes in equal rights and equal access to opportunity for everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc. In other words, the exact opposite of a fascist. It is not possible to be a liberal and a fascist at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. It doesn't matter if someone calls a fascist a liberal (as right wing fascist often call left wing fascists) or even if a fascist calls himself a liberal (as fascists often lie about who the are) - the two can never be one and the same.

quote:

Add... illusion of ... before the word 'bigotry' ... and you start to see how the people are being pitted against each others to no one's benefit but ... ???


I'm not sure what you mean by "illusion of bigotry." If group A constantly tells lies and preaches hatred of group B then it is bigotry. The ones who benefit, of course, are the ones who seek to acquire and maintain power.




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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 5:52:48 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

This makes no sense. A liberal is a person who believes in equal rights and equal access to opportunity for everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc.



... as long as you either agree with them or shut the fuck up about your own opposing viewpoint.



Michael

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:02:08 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

This makes no sense. A liberal is a person who believes in equal rights and equal access to opportunity for everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc.



... as long as you either agree with them or shut the fuck up about your own opposing viewpoint.



Michael


Exactly. Or the perceived opposing viewpoint. Maybe they'll see it some day. In any event, they are a convenient group to use as a means to an end... especially with all that mad passion they have.



< Message edited by tamaka -- 11/10/2016 6:03:39 PM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:11:09 PM   
SunDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
equal access


What does this term mean?

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:18:43 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

at least with trump we dont have to worry about going to war against Russia



No... you just have to worry about Russia doing whatever it wants globally, unopposed.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:22:50 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Putin is already doing that. He doesn't have to wait until Trump is in office.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:28:20 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


What steps should Trump take to unite the country?



Announce that "elections have consequences," and refuse to modify any part of his agenda.

Pass drastic changes to existing systems on a straight party-line vote, accepting no input from the minority party, for as long as his party controls Congress.

Bypass Congress and impose drastic changes to existing systems by executive order, once Congress changes hands.

Start new wars and topple foreign governments at will, without any Congressional authorization.

Hey, it worked for Obama, right?

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 6:35:41 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


What steps should Trump take to unite the country?



Announce that "elections have consequences," and refuse to modify any part of his agenda.

Pass drastic changes to existing systems on a straight party-line vote, accepting no input from the minority party, for as long as his party controls Congress.

Bypass Congress and impose drastic changes to existing systems by executive order, once Congress changes hands.

Start new wars and topple foreign governments at will, without any Congressional authorization.

Hey, it worked for Obama, right?


Yup, with the help of the RNC which would not run anyone better than the shit they put up. It worked and got him two terms. Fuck the 47 % aqnd 100 years in Iraq, what are those people smoking ? Even if you think that you don't say it in public. Fucking idiots.

The DNC could have won with Sanders but he is not a "company Man" so to speak. Another bunch of fucking idiots, and they don't even know basic math to boot. I hope Trump does.

T^T

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/10/2016 10:45:55 PM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
That is true, ignorant people do use it that way. However, that does not mean I have to pander to their ignorance. Especially as fascism is not inherently either left or right wing, it can be either.


Actually, that depends on how you define fascism (as well as the 'left' or 'right' movements you compare it to).

I define right as promoting social and economic hierarchies as the 'natural' order, and left as promoting egalitarianism.
If you agree with me, then fascism is inarguably right-wing.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/11/2016 3:00:03 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

... as long as you either agree with them or shut the fuck up about your own opposing viewpoint.


Wrong.

A liberal believes in freedom of speech for everyone regardless of races, gender, etc. If someone attempts to use the power of government and/or physical violence or threats then that person is not a liberal.

Do not confuse dissent with censorship. A person using their freedom of speech to disagree with things you say (regardless of whether their being polite about it or not) is NOT a fascist. Disagreement and dissent are not censorship.

The distinction is really not that difficult to figure out. I am a liberal. If I say "fuck Donald Trump" I'm still a liberal. If I say "Trump supporters are ignorant fuckwads" I'm still a liberal. If I beat the crap out of a Trump supporter because of what he said then I stop being a liberal and become a fascist.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/11/2016 3:05:07 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

What does this term mean?


It means you are not denied access to things like health care and a collage education because of your race, gender, ethnicity, etc. For example it means you wont be denied entry to the country just because you are a Muslim or you wont be denied a collage education just because you are poor.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/11/2016 3:13:47 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

And how is that segment defined?

Oh any number of ways. It could be the military leadership, the landed gentry, members of a given political party or social class, or an ethnic group.
quote:

The bigotry is absolutely necessarily because it is needed to focus the population's hatred and anger away from the government that is oppressing them.

You can repeat and rephrase your opinion as often as you wish, and you will still be wrong.

quote:

I am curious as to why this is so important to you.

Oh I don't know, I guess I'm just weird thinking that one ought to understand and correctly use political terminology in a political discussion.

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