A principled man speaks out. (Full Version)

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outlier -> A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 11:02:02 AM)

If you are you not familiar with Gregg Popovich here is a brief preface:

Popovich is the longest tenured active coach in both the NBA and all US major sports leagues.
He is often referred to as "Coach Pop" or simply "Pop"

He came out of East Chicago, Indiana then went to the Air Force academy.

From his Wiki Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Popovich

"He played basketball for four seasons at the Academy and in his senior year was the team
captain and the leading scorer. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in Soviet Studies, and
he underwent Air Force intelligence gathering and processing training. At one point, Popovich
considered a career with the Central Intelligence Agency.[5]

Popovich served five years of required active duty in the United States Air Force, during which
he toured Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union with the U.S. Armed Forces Basketball Team.
In 1972, he was selected as captain of the Armed Forces Team, which won the Amateur Athletic
Union (AAU) championship. This earned him an invitation to the 1972 U.S. Olympic Basketball
Team trials."

Because of his 5 NBA championships and the respect he commands he is probably the most secure
coach in professional sports. He is famous for doing things his way and does NOT suffer fools.
Which can make his interviews very entertaining.

He has finally spoken out about the election.

Below are his words in full.

"Right now I'm just trying to formulate thoughts. It's too early. I'm just sick to my stomach. Not basically because the Republicans won or anything, but the disgusting tenor and tone and all of the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.

"I live in that country where half of the people ignored all of that to elect someone. That's the scariest part of the whole thing to me. It's got nothing to do with the environment and Obamacare, and all of the other stuff. We live in a country that ignored all of those values that we would hold our kids accountable for. They'd be grounded for years if they acted and said the things that have been said in that campaign by Donald Trump.

"I look at the Evangelicals and I wonder, those values don't mean anything to them? All of those values to me are more important than anybody's skill in business or anything else because it tells who we are, and how we want to live, and what kind of people we are. That's why I have great respect for people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain, John Kasich, who I disagree with on a lot of political things, but they had enough fiber and respect for humanity and tolerance for all groups to say what they said about the man.

"That's what worries me. I get it, of course we want to be successful, we're all going to say that. Everybody wants to be successful, it's our country, we don't want it to go down the drain. But any reasonable person would come to that conclusion, but it does not take away the fact that he used that fear mongering, and all of the comments, from day one, the race bating with trying to make Barack Obama, our first black president, illegitimate. It leaves me wondering where I've been living, and with whom I'm living.

"The fact that people can just gloss that over, start talking about the transition team, and we're all going to be kumbaya now and try to make the country good without talking about any of those things. And now we see that he's already backing off of immigration and Obamacare and other things, so was it a big fake, which makes you feel it's even more disgusting and cynical that somebody would use that to get the base that fired up. To get elected. And what gets lost in the process are African Americans, and Hispanics, and women, and the gay population, not to mention the eighth grade developmental stage exhibited by him when he made fun of the handicapped person. I mean, come on. That's what a seventh grade, eighth grade bully does. And he was elected president of the United States. We would have scolded our kids. We would have had discussions until we were blue in the face trying to get them to understand these things. He is in charge of our country. That's disgusting."

A reporter then interrupted him.

"I'm not done," Popovich said. "One could go on and on, we didn't make this stuff up. He's angry at the media because they reported what he said and how he acted. That's ironic to me. It makes no sense. So that's my real fear, and that's what gives me so much pause and makes me feel so badly that the country is willing to be that intolerant and not understand the empathy that's necessary to understand other group's situations. I'm a rich white guy, and I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I can't imagine being a Muslim right now, or a woman, or an African American, a Hispanic, a handicapped person. How disenfranchised they might feel. And for anyone in those groups that voted for him, it's just beyond my comprehension how they ignore all of that. My final conclusion is, my big fear is --- we are Rome."

Link with the video.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Gregg-Popovich-uncensored-Discusses-the-10609311.php






WickedsDesire -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 11:54:29 AM)

"I live in that country where half of the people ignored all of that to elect someone. That's the scariest part of the whole thing to me agreed that scare me the most too....and part of me thinks if it was about owning guns, or not, the turn out would have been higher.

52% is the correct figure - smiles - and 48% did not vote which is about half.




Greta75 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 12:25:14 PM)

quote:

but the disgusting tenor and tone and all of the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.

This is the problem with left leaning people. It feels like that's the only thing they keep hearing out of Trump.
But people who support Trump see none of those characteristics in him AT ALL.
It's like you guys keep making up stories and all these imaginary things about him.

Homophobic is already proven to be one big lie the left keep spinning.
Everything to keep falling away.

I am glad he is going to get to be President.

Soon people will slowly see, that the real fear mongering is from the left and not from Trump.




WhoreMods -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 12:27:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

but the disgusting tenor and tone and all of the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.

This is the problem with left leaning people. It feels like that's the only thing they keep hearing out of Trump.
But people who support Trump see none of those characteristics in him AT ALL.
It's like you guys keep making up stories and all these imaginary things about him.

So which stories about the circus peanut that have attracted censure over his election campaign are imaginary, then?




Greta75 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 12:41:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
So which stories about the circus peanut that have attracted censure over his election campaign are imaginary, then?

1) He is against illegal immigrants. But that got spin into racism. He is totally for all legal immigrants of all races. He just doesn't like illegal immigrants. In most regular countries, except the US, we generally dislike illegal immigrants too and want to stamp them out! But in the US, being against Illegals is regarded as Racism apparently.

2) He feels that the current system does not have the vetting strong enough. And there are terrorists among refugees. So all he said was halt all Muslims until they figure a better way to vet. Then everybody calls it xenophobia when there is a genuine problem that he is trying to fix in a very systematic and practical manner.

3) He is misogynistic just because he insults women? This person insults both male and female equally! This is literally one man, who is no hold bars, regardless of gender! I mean, did any of ya remember all the insults he threw at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio?

That covers it all.




outlier -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 12:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

but the disgusting tenor and tone and all of the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.

This is the problem with left leaning people.


Pop is not left leaning, he is ex military. If you had read his background and used a brain you
would have realized that. But then you could not just call names to deal with it.


quote:

It feels like that's the only thing they keep hearing out of Trump.
But people who support Trump see none of those characteristics in him AT ALL.


Exactly! I think the best explaination of why the voters voted the way they did was in
a link posted by Cloudboy, and it was a prediction before the election

https:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-will-win-in-a-landslide-the-mind-behind-dilbert-explains-why/

And he was proven right.

Since name calling and labeling is the level you are competent to work at
I am not surprised you dont like Pop's statement.







LadyPact -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 12:46:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
So which stories about the circus peanut that have attracted censure over his election campaign are imaginary, then?

1) He is against illegal immigrants. But that got spin into racism. He is totally for all legal immigrants of all races. He just doesn't like illegal immigrants. In most regular countries, except the US, we generally dislike illegal immigrants too and want to stamp them out! But in the US, being against Illegals is regarded as Racism apparently.

2) He feels that the current system does not have the vetting strong enough. And there are terrorists among refugees. So all he said was halt all Muslims until they figure a better way to vet. Then everybody calls it xenophobia when there is a genuine problem that he is trying to fix in a very systematic and practical manner.

3) He is misogynistic just because he insults women? This person insults both male and female equally! This is literally one man, who is no hold bars, regardless of gender! I mean, did any of ya remember all the insults he threw at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio?

That covers it all.


I'll call that last one even when he gropes some guy's penis.





bounty44 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 1:21:19 PM)

and if you would have read his biography you might have noted that there is not one thing in it from which his social/political worldviews can be deduced.

you owe an apology to greta.

and given his ready use of the words "xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and misogynistic" you'll excuse me if im having a hard time believing he's anything but left leaning.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 1:44:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
1) He is against illegal immigrants. But that got spin into racism. He is totally for all legal immigrants of all races. He just doesn't like illegal immigrants. In most regular countries, except the US, we generally dislike illegal immigrants too and want to stamp them out! But in the US, being against Illegals is regarded as Racism apparently.

Could that be because nearly all his 'illegal immigrants' sneers were against Mexicans in particular??
I didn't hear him say zip against any white illegals.
That's why he is called racist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
2) He feels that the current system does not have the vetting strong enough. And there are terrorists among refugees. So all he said was halt all Muslims until they figure a better way to vet. Then everybody calls it xenophobia when there is a genuine problem that he is trying to fix in a very systematic and practical manner.

And why only Muslims?
There have been attacks in the US that had nothing to do with Muslims, yet he picked on just the Muslims for exclusion.
Hence the xenophobia label.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
3) He is misogynistic just because he insults women? This person insults both male and female equally! This is literally one man, who is no hold bars, regardless of gender! I mean, did any of ya remember all the insults he threw at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio?

He didn't boast about grabbing guys did he?? Only Women.
And pretty much all of his gender-based sneers were against women, not men.
It was not equal.


I don't like the man.
I think he is a dangerous loose cannon.
Many of his ideas will bankrupt the country and alienate others around the world.

Snopes put the popular vote for Hilary at about 700,000.
I don't particularly like Hilary either.
That's because the Repubs controlling congress will block just about everything she would want to do just because she's a democrat.




Nnanji -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 1:54:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
1) He is against illegal immigrants. But that got spin into racism. He is totally for all legal immigrants of all races. He just doesn't like illegal immigrants. In most regular countries, except the US, we generally dislike illegal immigrants too and want to stamp them out! But in the US, being against Illegals is regarded as Racism apparently.

Could that be because nearly all his 'illegal immigrants' sneers were against Mexicans in particular??
I didn't hear him say zip against any white illegals.
That's why he is called racist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
2) He feels that the current system does not have the vetting strong enough. And there are terrorists among refugees. So all he said was halt all Muslims until they figure a better way to vet. Then everybody calls it xenophobia when there is a genuine problem that he is trying to fix in a very systematic and practical manner.

And why only Muslims?
There have been attacks in the US that had nothing to do with Muslims, yet he picked on just the Muslims for exclusion.
Hence the xenophobia label.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
3) He is misogynistic just because he insults women? This person insults both male and female equally! This is literally one man, who is no hold bars, regardless of gender! I mean, did any of ya remember all the insults he threw at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio?

He didn't boast about grabbing guys did he?? Only Women.
And pretty much all of his gender-based sneers were against women, not men.
It was not equal.


I don't like the man.
I think he is a dangerous loose cannon.
Many of his ideas will bankrupt the country and alienate others around the world.

Snopes put the popular vote for Hilary at about 700,000.
I don't particularly like Hilary either.
That's because the Repubs controlling congress will block just about everything she would want to do just because she's a democrat.


While I never saw him sneer, that's in your own mind shame on you, he said what he said when a discussion of 12 million illigal immigrants from Mexico was the topic. I understand the left has thoughts they don't tolerate and that solving this problem in the U.S. Is one of those thoughts (because the left wants all of those votes) but if simply addressing a problem can't be discussed then I say the people making that a taboo point are the racists and not Trump.

If you look at what actually occurred for your other examples, instead of rely on Hillary's identity politics you'll see you are just as wrong about them.




outlier -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 2:17:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and if you would have read his biography you might have noted that there is not one thing in it from which his social/political worldviews can be deduced.

you owe an apology to greta.

and given his ready use of the words "xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and misogynistic" you'll excuse me if im having a hard time believing he's anything but left leaning.



Thank you for proving him correct by providing more examples.

His biography says he was a military officer, an expert in Soviet studies
who considered serving in the CIA. And he lives in Texas. All of those
are cultures that are infested with liberials.

It also says that dispite all his accolades and awards the one that is
the most meaningful to him is the 2008 Most Distinguished Graduate
award from the Air Force Academy. So I think there are some indications
of his values and "social/political worldviews" can be deduced.

Greta's response to his statement was to immediately resort to the
ad hominem, in her mind and apparenty yours, of calling him a leftist.
Just as you have just done.

So what if he was or is? It is irrelevant. Name calling is not the best
way to decide important issues in a democracy. That is one of his points.
One you obviously do not grasp or endorse.






Nnanji -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 2:21:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and if you would have read his biography you might have noted that there is not one thing in it from which his social/political worldviews can be deduced.

you owe an apology to greta.

and given his ready use of the words "xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and misogynistic" you'll excuse me if im having a hard time believing he's anything but left leaning.



Thank you for proving him correct by providing more examples.

His biography says he was a military officer, an expert in Soviet studies
who considered serving in the CIA. And he lives in Texas. All of those
are cultures that are infested with liberials.

It also says that dispite all his accolades and awards the one that is
the most meaningful to him is the 2008 Most Distinguished Graduate
award from the Air Force Academy. So I think there are some indications
of his values and "social/political worldviews" can be deduced.

Greta's response to his statement was to immediately resort to the
ad hominem, in her mind and apparenty yours, of calling him a leftist.
Just as you have just done.

So what if he was or is? It is irrelevant. Name calling is not the best
way to decide important issues in a democracy. That is one of his points.
One you obviously do not grasp or endorse.




Good points. But if name calling isn't a best way, neither is accepting sports stars as political prognosticators. Let's keep in mind that Obama has fired 197 generals in the last five years because they didn't have proper political views and replaced them with "His" people. While the military is mostly conservative it is not entirely conservative. You assumed he pop was conservative when you posted didn't you? Others assumed otherwise. How are they different?




bounty44 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 3:32:48 PM)

and again, to make it worse, he not only assumed so, he castigated greta for not picking up on his assumptions.

of course HIS JOB doesn't have anything to do with where he lives either.

and apparently my query into his "assumptions" somehow landed me in the category of "xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and misogynistic??"

quote:

Thank you for proving him correct by providing more examples.


and hey outlier---while youre busy not apologizing to greta, please take note i didn't "call him a leftist"---go back and read.

in fact, i really didn't call him anything. the purpose of my post was to support greta's thinking, and to criticize you making an ass of yourself criticizing her for no good reason.







Kirata -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 4:00:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

3) He is misogynistic just because he insults women? This person insults both male and female equally! This is literally one man, who is no hold bars, regardless of gender! I mean, did any of ya remember all the insults he threw at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio?

That "misogynistic" label has always struck me as crazy. Trump doesn't hate women. He does tend to objectify them, and that's a failing, but not one that translates into hate.

K.





freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 4:03:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
While I never saw him sneer, that's in your own mind shame on you, he said what he said when a discussion of 12 million illigal immigrants from Mexico was the topic.

I saw it on several media outlets - both in the US and the UK.
Perhaps your idea of sneering and mine are different.
The topic was illegal immigrants.
The clown made it a topic on Mexicans in particular.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
I understand the left has thoughts they don't tolerate and that solving this problem in the U.S. Is one of those thoughts (because the left wants all of those votes) but if simply addressing a problem can't be discussed then I say the people making that a taboo point are the racists and not Trump.

I'm not a leftist.
It is a problem that needs to be solved, granted.
But to specifically make the Mexicans a target for his criticisms wasn't right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
If you look at what actually occurred for your other examples, instead of rely on Hillary's identity politics you'll see you are just as wrong about them.

I watched everything that I could watch on the election right from the initial TV debate in the primaries.
I didn't particularly take sides with Hilary.
And considering more than half the international news was focused on Trump and his comments and inappropriate remarks against specific groups of people (Mexicans, Muslims and women), it is fair to say that I followed more Trump stuff than Hillary's.

Given the vitriolic rhetoric that passed between the pair of them over many debates, most of those personal remarks I tended to ignore.




tamaka -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/14/2016 4:17:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1




quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
2) He feels that the current system does not have the vetting strong enough. And there are terrorists among refugees. So all he said was halt all Muslims until they figure a better way to vet. Then everybody calls it xenophobia when there is a genuine problem that he is trying to fix in a very systematic and practical manner.


And why only Muslims?
There have been attacks in the US that had nothing to do with Muslims, yet he picked on just the Muslims for exclusion.
Hence the xenophobia label.




Because they are sending their masses all across the globe. They want to come here in mass quantities... and we don't know if that will be good for us or harmful to us.




tweakabelle -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/15/2016 4:37:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
[Trump] said what he said when a discussion of 12 million illigal [sic] immigrants from Mexico was the topic. I understand the left has thoughts they don't tolerate and that solving this problem in the U.S. Is one of those thoughts (because the left wants all of those votes)

Please forgive me but I wasn't aware that "12 million illigal immigrants from Mexico" were allowed to vote in US elections. I must have missed it whenever it was announced that they had been given the vote. Perhaps you could be kind enough to point out when they were given the vote so that I can refresh my memory ......

While you are at it, could you please explain how leftists who apparently aren't allowed to tolerate thoughts about solving this problem are somehow able to solve it by enfranchising the alleged "12 million illigal [sic] immigrants from Mexico" without, if you are to be believed, thinking about it?

All that sounds a bit magical to me - if your account of things is coherent. There seems to be one other explanation. Of course it's possible that you have just written a load of fictional rubbish but I am sure you wouldn't like to us to think that would you?






Greta75 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/15/2016 5:17:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier
Since name calling and labeling is the level you are competent to work at
I am not surprised you dont like Pop's statement.

Left leaning is a slur now? Wow! That's new!

I never feel insulted being called "right leaning" honestly! Right leaning and Proud!




Greta75 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/15/2016 5:24:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier
His biography says he was a military officer, an expert in Soviet studies
who considered serving in the CIA. And he lives in Texas. All of those
are cultures that are infested with liberials.

It also says that dispite all his accolades and awards the one that is
the most meaningful to him is the 2008 Most Distinguished Graduate
award from the Air Force Academy. So I think there are some indications
of his values and "social/political worldviews" can be deduced.

I didn't know that you couldn't be from the Military and be Left Leaning? And you couldn't serve the CIA and be Left leaning?
I didn't know US Military and CIA has right leaning political stances as a pre-requisite?

And EVERYBODY from Texas is not Left Leaning?

I mean are you serious?

I judge whether a person is left leaning or right leaning by their ideologies they sprout. Not by their careers or the states they are from. Every red state HAS blue people.






Greta75 -> RE: A principled man speaks out. (11/15/2016 5:34:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Could that be because nearly all his 'illegal immigrants' sneers were against Mexicans in particular??
I didn't hear him say zip against any white illegals.
That's why he is called racist.

Because Mexico doesn't bother securing their border and they are the cause of allowing so many illegals get into US through their borders! Because Mexico IS their bordering country. So Of course he is gonna point fingers at Mexico! I mean, illegals aren't pouring in from Canada somehow! Duh! Nothing to do with Racism. If Canada had shitloads of illegals pouring through, trust me, Trump is gonna go after Canada too!

quote:

And why only Muslims?
There have been attacks in the US that had nothing to do with Muslims, yet he picked on just the Muslims for exclusion.
Hence the xenophobia label.

Because this was brought on by refugee issue. You saw the problems that Germany faced. France is facing now. US was considering to accepting to ALOT MORE Muslim refugees and Trump was worried about facing all the same problems that Europe is facing now. Look at my Germany Thread on what's going on! Trump just wants a solution to this problem. It has nothing to do with Xenophobia, but there is a real problem that needs to be fixed, and unfortunately, it involves trying to find a way to differentiate the Good Muslims from the Bad Muslims, so you can keep the bad out and let the good ones in, and the world have not figured out how to do that yet! He is saying, the vetting process currently sucks. Let's halt Muslim immigration until we figure it all out on a better way to vet.

Just look at this! Australia don't want their Muslim Refugees, and then dump them to the US. These are situations US gotta deal with! I find this terrible, Australia should deal with their own refugees and stop expecting US to be the "charitable" country to house them!

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/nov/13/refugees-held-in-australian-offshore-detention-to-be-resettled-in-us

quote:

He didn't boast about grabbing guys did he?? Only Women.
And pretty much all of his gender-based sneers were against women, not men.
It was not equal.

He criticized many males for their appearances too. Media just ignore it when he insults men. It was super equal. And he is not gay, so clearly he ain't gonna even fantasize about grabbing men's cocks.
Also, if you say, all you see in the media is the media bringing up one sided reporting of all the Trump bad stuffs. Then clearly, you are influence by them omitting all the other stuffs that they feel won't not help Hillary win.






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