Economic Nationalism

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tamaka -> Economic Nationalism (11/19/2016 11:24:47 PM)
The latest and greatest... Steve Bannon, the chief strategist and right-hand man to President-elect Donald Trump, denied in an interview that he was an advocate of white nationalism -- and gave hints instead about how his brand of “economic” nationalism will shake up Washington. In The Hollywood Reporter, Bannon, the controversial former head of Breitbart News who went on to chair Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign, discussed why he believed his candidate won the election. “I’m not a white nationalist, I’m a nationalist. I’m an economic nationalist,” Bannon told the news outlet earlier this week. “The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia. The issue now is about Americans looking to not get f—ed over.” Bannon’s appointment to the White House has drawn criticism from Democrats and several civil liberties groups, in part because of his (and Breitbart’s) strong association with the alt-right, a political movement with strains of white “Look, are there some people that are white nationalists that are attracted to some of the philosophies of the alt-right? Maybe,” Bannon told Mother Jones in August. “Are there some people that are anti-Semitic that are attracted? Maybe. Right? Maybe some people are attracted to the alt-right that are homophobes, right? But that’s just like, there are certain elements of the progressive left and the hard left that attract certain elements.” In the Reporter interview, Bannon challenged the notion that racialized overtones dominated the Trump campaign on the trail. He predicted that if the administration delivered on its election promises, “we’ll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we’ll govern for 50 years.” “It’s everything related to jobs,” Bannon said and seemingly bragged about how he was going to drive conservatives “crazy” with his “trillion-dollar infrastructure plan.” “With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up,” he proposed. “We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.” Bannon, in the Reporter interview, also gave some insight into how he viewed his political foes (presumably, liberals and the media) -- and the “darkness” he touts in fighting against them. “Darkness is good,” Bannon said. “Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That’s power. It only helps us when they...get it wrong. When they’re blind to who we are and what we’re doing.” © 2016 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email WhatsApp Play COMPLETE COVERAGE

Edwird -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:10:06 AM)
Right. So all the über capitalists in The Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, Switzerland, France, Japan, Germany, Britain, Thailand, the USA, Sweden, etc. (that's right, spout 'comrade' all you want, but there are capitalista billionaires in Sweden, too!) have just been sitting idly by all this time, during all these years of historically record-low interest rates, gnashing teeth and wringing hands, just hoping somebody will come along and do something about it. That's how they got to the top in the first place, right? Just waiting for somebody to come along and get them "all jacked up,' given the tentative nature of the typical über capitalist. Talking 'economics,' where demand doesn't come anywhere near the discussion. Okay.

tamaka -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:37:07 AM)
Who buys ships... and how many do they need... and... why

epiphiny43 -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:49:01 AM)
For such a smart guy, he sure doesn't grasp that we are in a post-industrial society and smokestack industries aren't just dead, they aren't even zombie candidates anymore. Even China is off-shoring industry to lower wage markets, why they are spending billions building infrastructure in East Africa. The jobs that offer success are precisely what Obama has been saying for 8 years now. Education to the openings in current and future technological society are where any future lies. This is Not good news to middle aged moderately educated underemployed wage slaves. So they vote for a fantasy the old system can be restored and they can have all their consumer toys working 40 hr weeks in mindless routine. The coasts are Blue because everyone ambitious enough to go where business is good, or smart enough to master IT is already in the blossoming urban centers. These people do understand the imperatives of economic history that are happening now. That the Alt-Right is totally in denial of the realities of tech culture basic materials sourcing means their Economic Nationalism (Isolationist) is doomed as others raise the prices of critical raw materials to fight back at our taxing their imports out of our market. And everyone else but the US Right now understands we all face ecological disaster if food security, clean water supply for All needs (Drinking, agriculture and industry and most of all, viable ecologies) and global warming aren't effectively addressed in the next generation. Real long term survival of the US as a functional society isn't even on the Alt-Right radar. Like the Harvard School of Business mythology, it's all on very short term financial returns to the powerful few. No real solutions for the whole country, no matter what is claimed. They'd have comprehensive concepts to improve US schools to the best international standards if they were serious about jobs over the foreseeable future. Which is maybe their last concern.

popeye1250 -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:58:03 AM)
Economic nationalism is a good thing. That (is) what the taxpayers are paying the hired help in Washington to do after all.

Edwird -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:13:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Who buys ships... and how many do they need... and... why We don't buy ships; we buy/rent house/condo/apartment, we buy groceries and cars and clothes and stereos and TVs and smart phones and pay for electricity and cable or satellite and phone service and car/house/health insurance, and go to concerts and shows, and go to restaurants and deli, and take vacations and rent a cabin, and go to the doctor, and the lawyer to write our will, and to the banks and mutual funds to keep our money, and buy guitars/pianos/fiddles/trumpets, and bicycles. That's the demand side of it, which none of these fuckwits pretending knowledge of 'economics' seem to be aware of. Certainly not aware of the fact that when you keep whittling down real (inflation-adjusted) wages, you reduce quantity demanded, which lowers business revenue. No, just get the government to by a bunch of ships and planes, then all will be well. Tax the poor (which Greenspan did) give excess funds to the rich even beyond their bonuses; that's the mantra of 'supply side' and 'free market' drivel. The military is already pretty well stocked, not much room for growth or economic impact there. Raising minimum wage and better targeting of education in the 10-14 years range would have a phenomenal impact on quality of workforce, thereby obtaining increase in both output and median wage, thereby -increase in quantity demanded- and thereby increase in business revenues. ('Demand' is basic market for an item, i.e. willingness to buy, ability to buy notwithstanding. 'Quantity demanded' is proportional to ability to buy for those in that market.) And reduction of government expense and increase in government revenues in the bargain. But if the demand side isn't even brought into the discussion, you won't see one spit of that. And there is no discussion of the demand side I've seen thus far.

KenDckey -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:24:20 AM)
You mean no one is using RORO, Container, Tankers, break bulk ships in industry any longer? How in the hell is Japan getting so many vehicles over here?

LadyDemura -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:34:54 AM)
Nationalism works very well as a political talking point. Not as well in reality. While the US could do better than some countries if we shut off all trade, we would still be lacking in some things, and we would be losing out on trading the goods that are better produced here than elsewhere. While we do produce some oil, we use way more than we produce. We don't produce rare earth elements, which are needed for electronics. The only rare earth mine in the US shut down recently, it is much more economical to get those from China where they are in greater abundance. Or is going back to when America was Great Again include getting rid of computers and cell phones?

heavyblinker -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:37:48 AM)
If they're so interested in creating jobs then why have they so far only announced tax breaks for rich industrialists in profitable industries with absolutely no demands that they use the money to create jobs that they don't even need to create?

Edwird -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:58:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey You mean no one is using RORO, Container, Tankers, break bulk ships in industry any longer? How in the hell is Japan getting so many vehicles over here? Yes, I totally blinkered over tamaka's meaning re the ships, and the implication of the issue of imports.. But then my post answered entirely to the issue in any case, because all the government policies in the last thirty years have been to the detriment of worker/consumer, which speaks directly to the matter. The Walmart family would not have come into the fortune they have if not for the constant and relentless effort in inverting the productivity curve regarding workers and reducing their real income over decades, even as output and corporate profits have increased in significant measure coinciding with that outcome. In response to both your and tamaka's queries (and pay attention here); When you reduce quantity demanded by way of reducing real income for workers, it does not work out well for anybody, CEO mega-bonuses aside.

WickedsDesire -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 3:57:44 AM)
The globalists gutted the American working class- well they were easy, weren’t they, for they are a simple ~~people~~, ~~fukwits~~ herd. Just hint at the idea there is a trough to feast from and they will vote believe any old malarkey – lob in a few savage darkies, feeble women, wall em of rapist spics, Islam, lefties, are stealing their rightful entitlement, always help...well you got to make the ~~people~~, ~~fukwits~~ herd a bit paranoid too. Globalists – what does that really mean? Usually the 1% - to the filthy rich. Biggest company ( are they not hedge funds with cartels sitting at the top table) what is it, biggest company? and whom do they own? etc Usually make for interesting reading and their scope/location of operations. Not to be confused with shareholders…who prop up these criminal enterprises..or consumers who in turn prop up the share holders..I forgot to add in lobbyists didnt I and those with a vested interest...or a tentacle, sometimes several, throttling their loins. Not really a free market if you look at it like that - for what it actually is. I always count those who pay fuk all taxes, or next to nothing within the elitists groups. Are you quite certain 2-4 of you on this one are not the same ~~person~~ fukwit?

Lucylastic -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 4:41:02 AM)
Amazing no one is upset "about conflict of interest" right now. Bannon is a cunt. Not a economic nationalist. I thought he wanted a jewish AND muslim registry:) Next we will have alex jones in charge of climate change.ohoh oh I know Hes gonna be the next head of the CIA SO whats gonna happen when Ryan dismantles SS and Medicare and medicaid? Is he gonna be the next Pope of Poverty?

cloudboy -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 7:54:02 AM)
Can you cite any working examples or specifics? 10-1 you don't buy American -- you buy cheap instead.

Nnanji -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 11:39:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyDemura Nationalism works very well as a political talking point. Not as well in reality. While the US could do better than some countries if we shut off all trade, we would still be lacking in some things, and we would be losing out on trading the goods that are better produced here than elsewhere. While we do produce some oil, we use way more than we produce. We don't produce rare earth elements, which are needed for electronics. The only rare earth mine in the US shut down recently, it is much more economical to get those from China where they are in greater abundance. Or is going back to when America was Great Again include getting rid of computers and cell phones? While China is in the WTO, the centralized government has, and presumably will continue, to dump things in the U.S. at rates far below American producers can make them. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-chemicals-idUSKCN0W52U7 The central government takes a hit for a couple of years until there are no more American manufacturers then raises the price when they are the sole market provider. It's devastated parts of the California food industry. Nobody said anything but "fair" trade in the Trump camp. Free trade is wonderful as long as everyone plays by the agreed upon rules. China, for one, doesn't do that.

Nnanji -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 11:48:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker If they're so interested in creating jobs then why have they so far only announced tax breaks for rich industrialists in profitable industries with absolutely no demands that they use the money to create jobs that they don't even need to create? Because when multinational corporations see a corporate tax rate in the U.S. Of 35 percent and corporate tax rates in other countries at 15 percent they leave the money outside the U.S. And create jobs with it outside the U.S. Since corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to consumers, that makes American made products twenty percent more expensive than foreign products. It's a nice redistribution of wealth away from the U.S. And profitable for multinationals, but it sucks for people in the U.S.

heavyblinker -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Because when multinational corporations see a corporate tax rate in the U.S. Of 35 percent and corporate tax rates in other countries at 15 percent they leave the money outside the U.S. And create jobs with it outside the U.S. Since corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to consumers, that makes American made products twenty percent more expensive than foreign products. It's a nice redistribution of wealth away from the U.S. And profitable for multinationals, but it sucks for people in the U.S. Wow, I haven't seen this argument in a long time... I thought that people stopped making it. 90% of businesses don't even pay that tax. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/23/more-than-90-of-us-businesses-dont-pay-the-corporate-income-tax/ But anyways what does that have to do with creating jobs? Machines are still cheaper than people. Foreign labor is still cheaper and just as if not more skilled than domestic labor. A lot of manufacturing moved to get away from unions and environmental standards, not because of taxes they weren't even paying. These profitable industries will just take the subsidies and put it in their pockets. Protectionism will do a lot more to raise the prices of goods than the useless taxes ever will.

mnottertail -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:44:44 PM)
And it doesn't really matter what regulations or what the tax rate is the cost is passed on to the consumer. lets not forget free market communism 101.

mnottertail -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 12:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: LadyDemura Nationalism works very well as a political talking point. Not as well in reality. While the US could do better than some countries if we shut off all trade, we would still be lacking in some things, and we would be losing out on trading the goods that are better produced here than elsewhere. While we do produce some oil, we use way more than we produce. We don't produce rare earth elements, which are needed for electronics. The only rare earth mine in the US shut down recently, it is much more economical to get those from China where they are in greater abundance. Or is going back to when America was Great Again include getting rid of computers and cell phones? While China is in the WTO, the centralized government has, and presumably will continue, to dump things in the U.S. at rates far below American producers can make them. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-chemicals-idUSKCN0W52U7 The central government takes a hit for a couple of years until there are no more American manufacturers then raises the price when they are the sole market provider. It's devastated parts of the California food industry. Nobody said anything but "fair" trade in the Trump camp. Free trade is wonderful as long as everyone plays by the agreed upon rules. China, for one, doesn't do that. Nobody does it, since free markets have never existed, do not exist and will never exist outside the mind of felchgobblers. Course the nutsuckers are big on that free trade communism.

Nnanji -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 1:17:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Because when multinational corporations see a corporate tax rate in the U.S. Of 35 percent and corporate tax rates in other countries at 15 percent they leave the money outside the U.S. And create jobs with it outside the U.S. Since corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to consumers, that makes American made products twenty percent more expensive than foreign products. It's a nice redistribution of wealth away from the U.S. And profitable for multinationals, but it sucks for people in the U.S. Wow, I haven't seen this argument in a long time... I thought that people stopped making it. 90% of businesses don't even pay that tax. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/23/more-than-90-of-us-businesses-dont-pay-the-corporate-income-tax/ But anyways what does that have to do with creating jobs? Machines are still cheaper than people. Foreign labor is still cheaper and just as if not more skilled than domestic labor. A lot of manufacturing moved to get away from unions and environmental standards, not because of taxes they weren't even paying. These profitable industries will just take the subsidies and put it in their pockets. Protectionism will do a lot more to raise the prices of goods than the useless taxes ever will. Apparently you didn't follow the election as closely as you'd have us believe.

heavyblinker -> RE: Economic Nationalism (11/20/2016 9:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Because when multinational corporations see a corporate tax rate in the U.S. Of 35 percent and corporate tax rates in other countries at 15 percent they leave the money outside the U.S. And create jobs with it outside the U.S. Since corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to consumers, that makes American made products twenty percent more expensive than foreign products. It's a nice redistribution of wealth away from the U.S. And profitable for multinationals, but it sucks for people in the U.S. Wow, I haven't seen this argument in a long time... I thought that people stopped making it. 90% of businesses don't even pay that tax. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/23/more-than-90-of-us-businesses-dont-pay-the-corporate-income-tax/ But anyways what does that have to do with creating jobs? Machines are still cheaper than people. Foreign labor is still cheaper and just as if not more skilled than domestic labor. A lot of manufacturing moved to get away from unions and environmental standards, not because of taxes they weren't even paying. These profitable industries will just take the subsidies and put it in their pockets. Protectionism will do a lot more to raise the prices of goods than the useless taxes ever will. Apparently you didn't follow the election as closely as you'd have us believe. Comments like these are frustratingly obscure. If you're referring to Trump's amazing plan to bring all the jobs back, then I don't know how he's ever going to keep prices down. I can't imagine that foreign markets are going to allow America to raise the tax on imports without doing the same to America. I honestly don't even think that Trump or any of his legions have thought that far ahead. Even if American manufacturers sell exclusively to American consumers, they're going to have to pay their workers more and obey environmental standards, assuming Trump even keeps the unions and environmental regulations. If he doesn't keep the unions then why did you just disrupt global trade for the sake of a lot of low-paying, mind-numbing jobs that no one in their right mind would want? If he forgoes environmental standards, then have fun living in a toxic wasteland, because it's going to take a lot of polluting to bring prices down to acceptable levels. If he subsidizes every single industry to keep prices low, where is the money going to come from? There is just absolutely no way that this is not going to be a disaster.

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