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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/21/2016 1:08:56 AM   
itsSIRtou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Because when multinational corporations see a corporate tax rate in the U.S. Of 35 percent and corporate tax rates in other countries at 15 percent they leave the money outside the U.S. And create jobs with it outside the U.S.

Since corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to consumers, that makes American made products twenty percent more expensive than foreign products. It's a nice redistribution of wealth away from the U.S. And profitable for multinationals, but it sucks for people in the U.S.


Wow, I haven't seen this argument in a long time... I thought that people stopped making it.

90% of businesses don't even pay that tax.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/23/more-than-90-of-us-businesses-dont-pay-the-corporate-income-tax/

But anyways what does that have to do with creating jobs? Machines are still cheaper than people. Foreign labor is still cheaper and just as if not more skilled than domestic labor. A lot of manufacturing moved to get away from unions and environmental standards, not because of taxes they weren't even paying. These profitable industries will just take the subsidies and put it in their pockets.

Protectionism will do a lot more to raise the prices of goods than the useless taxes ever will.

Apparently you didn't follow the election as closely as you'd have us believe.


Comments like these are frustratingly obscure.

If you're referring to Trump's amazing plan to bring all the jobs back, then I don't know how he's ever going to keep prices down. I can't imagine that foreign markets are going to allow America to raise the tax on imports without doing the same to America. I honestly don't even think that Trump or any of his legions have thought that far ahead.

Even if American manufacturers sell exclusively to American consumers, they're going to have to pay their workers more and obey environmental standards, assuming Trump even keeps the unions and environmental regulations.

If he doesn't keep the unions then why did you just disrupt global trade for the sake of a lot of low-paying, mind-numbing jobs that no one in their right mind would want?

If he forgoes environmental standards, then have fun living in a toxic wasteland, because it's going to take a lot of polluting to bring prices down to acceptable levels.

If he subsidizes every single industry to keep prices low, where is the money going to come from?

There is just absolutely no way that this is not going to be a disaster.



What I think (t)rump's going to do is create another recession.. Like a Great Depression.... Like A stockholder-jumping-out-of-the-windows deep Great Depression. Why?

1. Every union contract under the sun goes out the window.

2. Never mind $15 an hour for wages, workers having to fight each other for one dollar an hour jobs will be common place.

3. How does one make money in the stock market? Buy a stock cheap, sell at its top price. When is a stock cheapest? During a recession!!

3. Of course programs like welfare, & medical assistance will be replaced with slave labor type work-based programs. "Working homeless" becomes an even bigger thing.

4. The south rises again as the industrial center of the nation, as jobs get taken from the liberal north, to a no/low tax, unregulated south where a worker "dog-eat-dog" government-out of-the-way-of business haven emerges.

5. The immigration problem is solved, - Mexico & Europe pays better wages than the USA,

6. Gasoline is $.50 a gallon again, because the poor and the middle class can't afford cars & insurance. Cheaper leaded gas is back because emissions laws are repealed.

See? America's great again!! (Sarcasm)




< Message edited by itsSIRtou -- 11/21/2016 1:15:23 AM >


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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/21/2016 6:11:36 AM   
WhoreMods


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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/21/2016 5:49:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
You mean no one is using RORO, Container, Tankers, break bulk ships in industry any longer? How in the hell is Japan getting so many vehicles over here?


They're built here, by American workers.


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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/21/2016 5:51:33 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Next we will have alex jones in charge of climate change.ohoh oh I know Hes gonna be the next head of the CIA


I thought he was going to be in charge of FEMA?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/21/2016 8:14:16 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

The military is already pretty well stocked, not much room for growth or economic impact there.
Not to worry, the Trumpsters will find a nice little war to suck up the military stockpile.

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 12:10:15 AM   
MrRodgers


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I have one at least partial solution and it fits right into so-called 'economic nationalism.' I know, it's hard to get past the jingoism.

Have the fed order up say 10 billion brand new $100 bills. That's right, brand new currency complete with new serial numbers creating a few dozen jobs...maybe build a new plant in rural Va.

Use it all to go quietly to only foreign investors and by up $1 trillion in US debt. Now these investors (or China alone but too narrow) are sitting on all that good ol'green US cash and it slowly matriculates back into goods and services outside the US...priced in dollars.

This also very slowly devalues the dollar overseas, makes their stuff more but our stuff cheaper there but not yet circulating in the US and maybe not for a couple of years, so...no inflation at home.

Now with the dollar lower, foreign buyers begin to buy...vwalah a jobs program from new rash of exports.

The only one big problem with that say as opposed to China's manipulation, is that those cheaper American products...aren't made in America anymore and they...aren't going to be, ever.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 11/22/2016 12:11:09 AM >


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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 4:19:21 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I have one at least partial solution and it fits right into so-called 'economic nationalism.' I know, it's hard to get past the jingoism.

Have the fed order up say 10 billion brand new $100 bills. That's right, brand new currency complete with new serial numbers creating a few dozen jobs...maybe build a new plant in rural Va.

Use it all to go quietly to only foreign investors and by up $1 trillion in US debt. Now these investors (or China alone but too narrow) are sitting on all that good ol'green US cash and it slowly matriculates back into goods and services outside the US...priced in dollars.

This also very slowly devalues the dollar overseas, makes their stuff more but our stuff cheaper there but not yet circulating in the US and maybe not for a couple of years, so...no inflation at home.

Now with the dollar lower, foreign buyers begin to buy...vwalah a jobs program from new rash of exports.

The only one big problem with that say as opposed to China's manipulation, is that those cheaper American products...aren't made in America anymore and they...aren't going to be, ever.

You'll be saying that trickle down theory doesn't work, next.


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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 4:52:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Next we will have alex jones in charge of climate change.ohoh oh I know Hes gonna be the next head of the CIA


I thought he was going to be in charge of FEMA?


oh, thats even better

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 7:11:55 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Economic nationalism is a good thing.
That (is) what the taxpayers are paying the hired help in Washington to do after all.


so... taxpayers (most of them shop at Walmart & by doing so outsource jobs to China, etc) really want Washington to make them stop shopping at Walmart? There is no such thing as "economic nationalism" in the US,.. if there were then "Buy American" wouldnt have been the huge flop it is.. and Walmart wouldnt exist..
You are one funny guy.. keep up the good work..

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 8:43:10 AM   
tamaka


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Well it's interesting that the USA's largest services export is travel passenger services so perhaps Trump wants to continue to expand this to create more jobs... (thus ship building).

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 8:49:21 AM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Economic nationalism is a good thing.
That (is) what the taxpayers are paying the hired help in Washington to do after all.


so... taxpayers (most of them shop at Walmart & by doing so outsource jobs to China, etc) really want Washington to make them stop shopping at Walmart? There is no such thing as "economic nationalism" in the US,.. if there were then "Buy American" wouldnt have been the huge flop it is.. and Walmart wouldnt exist..
You are one funny guy.. keep up the good work..


Economic Nationalism means making sure the US wins (as opposes to loses) in deals relating to economics. Right now in goods we are losing.

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 8:51:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Economic nationalism is a good thing.
That (is) what the taxpayers are paying the hired help in Washington to do after all.

so... taxpayers (most of them shop at Walmart & by doing so outsource jobs to China, etc) really want Washington to make them stop shopping at Walmart? There is no such thing as "economic nationalism" in the US,.. if there were then "Buy American" wouldnt have been the huge flop it is.. and Walmart wouldnt exist..
You are one funny guy.. keep up the good work..


Obviously, we can't stop ourselves, so who else is going to do it?

"Buy American" usually really means "Buy Union." That way, all the vehicles with Big 3 nameplates built in Canada or Mexico are still part of that, but it leaves out the foreign nameplates that are actually built in the USA. Plus, it completely ignores that Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep are no longer "American" companies, having been bought by Fiat....

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 10:58:06 AM   
WhoreMods


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Would it sound uncharitable to say that pissing and moaning about your country no longer having any manufacturing capacity that wouldn't make a dog laugh after spending thirty years standing back and saying nothing while all of the country's industries that wasn't protected by unions* was outsourced (mostly to your economic competitors, but that's a whole other issues, really) isn't so much closing the stable door after the horse has bolted as denying that you opened the stable door and invited the pikeys in to steal your horse?


*(and most of that as well, if we're honest)

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/22/2016 11:16:23 AM   
Lucylastic


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nah, its the workers faults, being greedy,
Companies are just looking after their "shareholders", the workers are the problem, they are lucky they arent being paid overseas wages so fuckem, they get to be unemployed and broke I wish they would stop whinging.

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 7:19:25 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Economic nationalism is a good thing.
That (is) what the taxpayers are paying the hired help in Washington to do after all.


so... taxpayers (most of them shop at Walmart & by doing so outsource jobs to China, etc) really want Washington to make them stop shopping at Walmart? There is no such thing as "economic nationalism" in the US,.. if there were then "Buy American" wouldnt have been the huge flop it is.. and Walmart wouldnt exist..
You are one funny guy.. keep up the good work..


Economic Nationalism means making sure the US wins (as opposes to loses) in deals relating to economics. Right now in goods we are losing.


and yet y'all still keep buying at Walmart (& on Alibaba, etc) and adding to their profits.. thats why y'all are "losing".. look in the mirror, its yer own fault.. (by that I mean that Americans are selling each other out)..

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 7:33:26 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Would it sound uncharitable to say that pissing and moaning about your country no longer having any manufacturing capacity that wouldn't make a dog laugh after spending thirty years standing back and saying nothing while all of the country's industries that wasn't protected by unions* was outsourced (mostly to your economic competitors, but that's a whole other issues, really) isn't so much closing the stable door after the horse has bolted as denying that you opened the stable door and invited the pikeys in to steal your horse?
*(and most of that as well, if we're honest)


Let the people compete.

We're running at 75% capacity.

Manufacturing output is way up.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/haroldsirkin/2016/07/07/chinas-new-worry-outsourcing/#395d5f5031c2

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-manufacturing-jobs-and-china




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 10:14:21 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

“With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up,” he proposed. “We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.”

This is what stood out to me in Bannon's words. How were jobs created in the 1930s? By Big Government public works programs. Otherwise there is no consumer demand in America. BG will be the consumer of last resort. That is how Bannon/Trump plan to create jobs and boom the economy. They plan an "exciting" and Yuuuuuuge public works program. Well, "plan" is an ill-chosen word substitute for throwing it up against a wall to see what sticks.

In the meanwhile, Trump also plans massive tax cuts.

Where will BG get the money to pay for the new 1930s public works program? Hey, buddy, can you spare a Dime?

Possibilities:

1. Borrow it. Print more money and go deeper into debt. Trump is a master at debt capitalism. Maybe he will borrow the money and then declare bankruptcy.

2. He won't cut military spending; he is already committed to increasing its budget.

3. Here's where the money will likely come from. Really, it is the only sufficiently large budget item and the R's are jonesing to whack Social Security benefits and Medicare/Medicaid benefits.

Gonna be a lot of angry boomers when they have to kiss their benefits bye bye. I mean seriously Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 10:30:08 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
1. Borrow it. Print more money and go deeper into debt. Trump is a master at debt capitalism. Maybe he will borrow the money and then declare bankruptcy.


He won't borrow it from China, though... he's going to make them forgo all of the debt they own through his sheer awesomeness. That extra trillion plus is going to come in handy when it comes time to give money to people who don't need it so that they can not create any jobs whatsoever and the profits will trickle down to nobody at all.

quote:

2. He won't cut military spending; he is already committed to increasing its budget.


I guess you forgot that he's going to kill the entire country of Iraq and steal all the oil. Maybe he can also steal the sex slaves and sell them to African warlords in exchange for diamonds... the big problem here being whether or not we can actually trust him not to use the diamonds to cover the screws in all the lightswitch panels in Trump Tower.

quote:

3. Here's where the money will likely come from. Really, it is the only sufficiently large budget item and the R's are jonesing to whack Social Security benefits and Medicare/Medicaid benefits.


It's their fault for getting sick in the first place.

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 10:39:26 AM   
tamaka


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How much money are we giving to refugees and illegal immigrants?

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RE: Economic Nationalism - 11/23/2016 10:49:07 AM   
mnottertail


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Illegal immigrants can only get assistance if they have american children, all time limits and payment caps apply.

It is for the american child.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/23/2016 10:52:22 AM >


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